Though I now have my PMW 500, I've not had to edit anything myself as yet.

My current laptop has an older version of Avid which I use regularly for editing with SD material.

At some point I'll have to update my kit.

What I'd like to know is what is the workflow like for editing with SxS cards at 50mbps and SDHC cards at 35mbps (more likely to edit with SDHC at this stage).

I'm thinking Mac Book Pro but the latest versions seem to have less and less ports these days. So, am I right in thinking that the latest retina laptop does have a SDHC card reader into which the memory card can be slotted without an attachment and if I had to use as SxS card I'd need a reader attached to the Thunderbolt port?

I understand Sony has an XDCam EX driver that has to be downloaded first before starting any editing.

After this I'm less sure of what happens. Any clues would be useful!

I see Avid offer a 30 day trial of the latest Media Composer 6, but it's expensive. May be cheaper if I can upgrade my old Avid software, but it is Xpress Pro, so not sure if that's an option.

Alternatively there's Final Cut X, but I have no experience of this or Final Cut Pro 7 either. Plus, I'm concerned with X that the video and audio is all on one channel/timeline whereas I'm used to working with Video on one channel, Interviews on another, Natural Sot on another and any Voiceover on yet another in Avid. I hear you can detach audio in X but have no idea how this works, etc.

So, as you can see I have a 2 part question (sort of) as to workflow and then software.

Also, if you're using a MB Pro and want to export the finished edit, what's best to use? I read somewhere that DvDs can cause big problems with quality, etc. Just thinking what's best to give a client when a project is finished.

Though I now have my PMW 500, I've not had to edit anything myself as yet.

My current laptop has an older version of Avid which I use regularly for editing with SD material.

At some point I'll have to update my kit.

What I'd like to know is what is the workflow like for editing with SxS cards at 50mbps and SDHC cards at 35mbps (more likely to edit with SDHC at this stage).

I'm thinking Mac Book Pro but the latest versions seem to have less and less ports these days. So, am I right in thinking that the latest retina laptop does have a SDHC card reader into which the memory card can be slotted without an attachment and if I had to use as SxS card I'd need a reader attached to the Thunderbolt port?

I understand Sony has an XDCam EX driver that has to be downloaded first before starting any editing.

After this I'm less sure of what happens. Any clues would be useful!

I see Avid offer a 30 day trial of the latest Media Composer 6, but it's expensive. May be cheaper if I can upgrade my old Avid software, but it is Xpress Pro, so not sure if that's an option.

Alternatively there's Final Cut X, but I have no experience of this or Final Cut Pro 7 either. Plus, I'm concerned with X that the video and audio is all on one channel/timeline whereas I'm used to working with Video on one channel, Interviews on another, Natural Sot on another and any Voiceover on yet another in Avid. I hear you can detach audio in X but have no idea how this works, etc.

So, as you can see I have a 2 part question (sort of) as to workflow and then software.

Also, if you're using a MB Pro and want to export the finished edit, what's best to use? I read somewhere that DvDs can cause big problems with quality, etc. Just thinking what's best to give a client when a project is finished.

You,ll need the UDF driver too.. even for down loading cards you,ll need this.. for any 50 Mbps recording ..I now use the Sony USB3 card reader with new Mac Book air.. no AC cable which is nice and fast.. or the sonnet TB reader.. then you,ll need SXS device driver too..(there was a problem with the Sonnet reader and 10.8.2 but I believe thats fixed now) I think all the new Mac Books have SD card slot.. but the express card slot is gone.and mine anyway doesnt have FW any more..

Thanks for this.
The tip about the UDF driver is very useful.
The new Sony reader looks good, especially without the need of a power cable.
Do you export the finished edit back to the Sony reader or do you do something different when you give it to a client?
What editing software do you use?

Hi Kevin

I dont edit.. just send off the footage in a HDD.. or hand it over to the dir..

Yes new reader is good..BUS powered and doesnt need any software at all.. I have the sonnet reader too,and its probably faster that USB3.. but the recent software OS update,and driver conflict for the sonnet was a bit of a worry.. ok now.. but could happen again.. so now I only have the UDF driver to worry about..
I also had a ton of problems when I first got my PMW500 with 64GB cards that weren't be recognized in the exp card slot as Sony hadn't up graded the UDF software to deal with them on a mac.. and in those days it really only EX users who were dealing with SXS in EX BPAV folders.. so the advise wasn't making sense in the UDF world.. my first introduction to the joys of software hell after shooting on tape.. !! so now I go for least stress,least software :) .. I use the "new" content browser to copy with checker and view the odd clip too.. its very good and easy.. does alot more other stuff that i dont use too..
Dont think anyone would copy edited footage back to a SXS card .. export to a HDD I would think..
I also only shoot in the Hyper Gamma,s now too..

Kevin,

I can't answer all your questions, but I'll quickly give you a few words of advice:

1) Forget about FCP. Everyone I know who used to use it is moving to something else. I have recently moved to Premiere CS6, and although there are some features I miss from FCP, overall it is a much better program and Adobe is more committed to the future of professional editing than Apple. Plus the integration with the rest of the Adobe suite (Photoshop, After Effects, Bridge, Encoder, Illustrator, etc.) is excellent. Avid is also an option, but I think you'd be happier with Adobe. If you want to go with Avid I have an unopened Symphony 6 box sitting on my shelf I will sell you cheap. :-)

2) What you deliver to a client, depends entirely on the client. It could be anything from a DVD, Blu-ray, hard drive, FTP, an XDCAM optical disc, or any other device that can hold computer files. I suppose there are still people who output to tape. My favorite deliverable is XDCAM optical discs, but the client must have a device to read it. You'd have to find out from your client BEFORE you even begin production what they expect as a deliverable.

3) Use the camera's UDF mode so you can shoot at 50Mbps. And don't ever use SDHC cards. I don't know if the 500 is compatible with XQD cards yet, but if it is, that is the way to go. The new PMW-200/160/100 cameras can use XQD cards for all video formats (including UDF) and they are a fraction of the price of SxS cards.

Hope that helps point you in the right direction.

Thanks for the response.

Interesting what you say about Final Cut X. I thought it had received a number of upgrades and was now much more professional to use regarding features, etc now than when it was launched to much derision.

FYI SDHC cards are used all the time by BBC News in the UK as SxS cards are deemed too expensive!

Hey, you're the one who was asking for some advice, and my advice is not to use FCPX or SDHC cards for a lot of good reasons that I don't have time to explain.
Take it for what it's worth. :-)

Whoa!

Think you have misinterpreted my response.

Nobody was criticising.

I was only passing on what I'd heard about FCP X and what BBC News do for debate.

I thought the passing on of information was what forums like this are all about?

There's no problem, I think you miss interpreted my response. I'm just saying that if you ask a dozen people then you'll get a dozen different opinions.

OK. No worries.

500 can use XQD cards.. interesting re BBC news.. so you hand over the card directly.. ?

If the 500 can use XQD cards, then I see no reason why anyone would risk shooting on SDHC. There are still reasons why SxS cards are best, but XQD are only a slight step down -- for a big cost savings.

Robin, to answer your question, yes you hand over the card to the journalist at the end of a shoot.

The reason SDHC cards are used instead of SxS, besides cost, is because news is transmitted at 35mbps compared to programmes which are minimum of 50mbps.

The XQD cards have only just been introduced. But it maybe something they'll consider in the future.

... Final Cut X. I thought it had received a number of upgrades and was now much more professional to use regarding features, etc now than when it was launched to much derision.


You are right, Kevin. Here's my two cents. I shoot XDCAM EX (on an EX1R). I went from FCP 6 to the Adobe Production Premium (best buy ever!). I suffered through a bunch of tutorials on how to use Premiere Pro (PPro) and have found it to be a generally excellent NLE. I particularly like working natively with XDCAM EX files (saving time and drive space because you don't have to put them in a QuickTime wrapper) and found it fairly comparable to old FCP. The same basic approach to editing. However, I had an absolutely massive and complex editing job late last year and early this year and found that PPro lacked a couple of features (which would've helped a lot with this particular job) and I was struggling. Then FCP X released 10.0.6 (prior to this it was an absolute joke, in my opinion) and it just happened to have 2 features which would speed up the job greatly. So I suffered through a bunch of tutorials on how to use it and gritted my teeth as I adjusted to its new "paradigm" as I edited the job. But, by the end, I found FCP X to be blazingly fast, even on routine tasks. It really left old FCP and PPro for dead in terms of speed (once I had adjusted fully to using it).

My two-cents-worth of advice is to get the Adobe Production Premium CS6 (or get their cloud subscription) because it's a fabulous set of tools for professionals. Photoshop and After Effects are now my favourite pieces of software. I prefer the Adobe Media Encoder for turning out 1080p .mp4 files over the .mp4 output of either Compressor or FCP X. And last week the client wanted me to film interviews in their reception area (with the phones ringing!), but I used Audition and it 100% eliminated the phones. I can't praise the Adobe suite highly enough. However, because time really is money, also get FCP X and Compressor (and they're relatively cheap).

PPro = Excellent NLE. FCP X = Faster. Much faster.

As Doug said, if you ask 12 different people, you'll get 12 different opinions - and Doug's opinion is one that I have the very highest respect for. And I do know that if I hadn't been "forced" by the demands of that particular job to learn and use FCP X, I would never have touched it. But now it's my first choice. Go figure.

Video is only a hobby for me, but I like to use professional stuff. I hate it when companies like Apple leave their professional customers in the cold in favour of the gadget-market (iPhone, iPad,...).

I've also struggled through manuals and tutorials to get a grasp on FCP7 and now I read from a real pro that I 'should forget about it', and convert to Adobe. I really don't feel like going through weeks of self-training again for the few days a month that I use my editing gear and software.

Guess I'll just have to stick to FCP7, my Mac Pro (that will also be abandoned by Apple shortly, no doubt) and my wonderful PMW320. And of course, never upgrade the OS to avoid having drivers and such that don't work anymore... Life's hard.

The original FCP and Premiere edit packages were written by the same software guys. As a result it's very easy to switch between the two. In CS6 you can even set it up to use the FCP keyboard shortcuts.

The tiers of broadcast TV were tweaked a bit at the end of last year. Tier 2J for journalism and news only (ie headline news programmes NOT news discussion or news magazine shows) allows the use of 35Mb/s 4:2:0 mpeg and 1/3" sensors. Tier 2L is still 50Mb/s 4:2:2 and 1/2" sensors, or cameras that have been tested to meet specific minimums. Tier 2L is the minimum for anything long form which would include a news discussion or news magazine show. In each case there is a 20% allowance for "non broadcast" so a magazine show that might be primarily studio based could still use 35Mb/s provided it does not make up more than 20% of the show.

Luc,

There's nothing wrong with continuing to use FCP7 as long as it still meets your needs. My advice to forget about using FCP7 and FCPX was directed to Kevin, who currently does not use any NLE software -- so he can start fresh with anything he wants. I suppose an argument could be made for getting started with FCPX (David makes some good points) but I really think it would be foolish to get started with FCP7 today since it is clearly at the end of it's life and is really behind the times in terms of speed and functionality.

And I agree with Alister that the transitioning to Premiere is not very hard for FCP7 users, especially for anyone who already knows Photoshop, After Effects, or any of the other Adobe products. In fact, Premiere has an option in the preferences panel to configure the program to mimic FCP7 short cuts and other features. Once you turn that on, the learning curve really flattens out. My main problem with Premiere has not been learning what it CAN do, it has been learning to work around the things that it CAN"T do. Sometimes I scratch my head and wonder if anyone at Adobe has ever used FCP7 and seen what features a professional editor expects to have. I'm hoping that CS7 addresses many of the shortcomings, but in the meantime, I've adapted and still revert to FCP7 for some things.

Obviously professionals have different needs than hobbyists, but in my case, the advantages of increasing my productivity by investing in faster hardware and software was very easy to justify. And now that I have seen how much faster Premiere is on my new Mac Pro, I wish I had made the switch sooner.

Another consideration for professionals is that we can't afford any downtime, and in my opinion, FCP7 could totally stop functioning unexpectedly after some new OS update from Apple. If I'm in the middle of a project or up against a deadline, that could cause chaos for me and my clients. Therefore I chose to make my migration to Premiere at my own speed, in non-panic mode, over the slow holiday period. On the other hand, a hobbyist could ride the FCP7 pony until it collapses and then look around for something else to ride. But pros don't have that luxury.

And one more consideration is that Apple could very well stop making computers that are capable of being used for professional editing. As a stockholder and loyal customer I think that would be a dumb decision, but Apple is pretty good at making dumb decisions lately. So if hell freezes over and I have to convert to Windows machine someday down the road, there will be virtually no learning curve because the whole Adobe suite is almost identical on Mac or Windows.

Just some random thoughts.

Thanks for sharing the random thoughts, Doug. I'll keep working with my now familiar workflow (XDACM browser, FCP7, Snow Leopard...) on the Mac Pro until Apple indeed lets me down completely with my 'old' stuff.

As you point out, that would be a dumb decision, just like removing the Expres-card slot from Macbook Pros. They're so blinded by the fast but volatile iPad/iPhone/iMac buck that they seem to have forgotten their original, stable core business. Just like Mercedes with the Smart and BMW with the 1 series. Dollarwise tempting but imagewise a disaster.

This said, on a rainy day, I might still try and have a go with Adobe Première to see what it looks like...

Robin, to answer your question, yes you hand over the card to the journalist at the end of a shoot.

The reason SDHC cards are used instead of SxS, besides cost, is because news is transmitted at 35mbps compared to programmes which are minimum of 50mbps.
What I heard is that it's to enable them to have many, many more individual SD cards than could be afforded if they spent the same money on SxS - not simply to be cheapskate! I understand that the reliability of using SD cards has been very good.

Which means the workflow can have the best advantages of solid state without giving up the best features of tape. In terms of shooting it means that not only can a cameraman treat the cards as he would tape in the past (shoot, handover, forget) but the cards can be kept for a period intact before formatting and reuse.

It's something I've felt for a long time - in terms of risk the main threat is human error (accidental deletion) rather than technical failure, and presumably the BBC have come to the same conclusion. Getting away from a workflow where you have to have a shoot-download-format-reuse routine to free up cards to carry on shooting can only be a good thing IMO. It's also why the PMW700 and 800 are still so heavily used on many productions, in spite of their disadvantages over the PMW500 in terms of power consumption, weight etc.
Dont think anyone would copy edited footage back to a SXS card .. export to a HDD I would think..
There are very good reasons to do exactly that in some situations. As a personal example, some of the work I do involves recording interviews and playing not just them back to the participants but other videos as well. It makes life easy to start off with a blank card in one slot of the camera (for the days recordings) and a card in the other camera slot pre-loaded with the pre-existing videos rendered to XDCAM card format. So everything gets played back from the camera, simply a case of switching slot to go between the two.

In a more broadcast situation (news, sports OB etc) the link may have to transmit back both cards straight out of the camera and locally edited material. If in the case of the latter the edit is laid back onto a SxS or SD card in camera format it not only reduces the amount of re-rendering, but makes for a simpler operation. The link only has to worry about dealing with one format, one media.
Tier 2L is still 50Mb/s 4:2:2 and 1/2" sensors, or cameras that have been tested to meet specific minimums. Tier 2L is the minimum for anything long form which would include a news discussion or news magazine show.
It's worth saying that all those EBU recommendations are just that - recommendations. They are not rules, and certainly not laws. If a broadcaster doesn't abide by them, it's their affair - they won't face sanctions. That said, there is a lot of sense behind the recommendations and a lot of sense in adhering to them in general.

But they can throw up anomalies if they were to be rigidly adhered to. For example, the Canon XF305 is designated as being in 2L whilst the Sony PMW350 is in 2J. If I was commissioning material and a cameraman offered a choice of those two cameras my inclination would be to go with the PMW350...... (Especially if lowlight ability was to be significant. :-) )

Some good, interesting points there.

My concern regarding which NLE software is I'm Avid trained and can edit quickly and efficiently with this. But upgrading to MC 6.5 is expensive, but may be the best way for me. Though I'm not sure about how well it handles XDCam EX material.

Maybe someone can clarify which system imports and exports footage simply and most efficiently.

I don't have to edit every day, but I do pretty regularly. Plus, I have a couple of projects coming up where I'll be shooting and editing longer features in HD. So I need to sort something as my current laptop and Avid software is only ok for SD.

That's why I thought about FCP X if I buy a MacBook as its around £200 it may be worth trying as an alternative now there have been the various upgrades, etc. But obviously there's the time consuming element of learning how to use it.

I can see why others have moved to Adobe Premiere if it's very similar to FCP 7, that makes perfect sense.

Getting away from a workflow where you have to have a shoot-download-format-reuse routine to free up cards to carry on shooting can only be a good thing IMO.)

Since 2000 I've been using solid state media (CF-cards) for my business (concert photography); and I've never looked back to the days of film negative. It's exactly the same for video: all you need to adopt is the discipline to back-up SxS cards immediately, just as I have been doing with my pictures on CF-cards for almost 14 years now. In all this time, I only lost data once.

I do admit that when I bought my PMW320, I also ordered 10 SDHC cards and an adapter, but I sold them 3 months later and stuck to SxS. I find SD-cards way to flimsy to be trustworthy and moreover: once a foolproof workflow is in place, there's really no need for them.

It's exactly the same for video: all you need to adopt is the discipline to back-up SxS cards immediately, just as I have been doing with my pictures on CF-cards for almost 14 years now. In all this time, I only lost data once.
I don't deny there is no one fix suits all, but what may be OK for you with complete control of the end to end process may not be so robust when many people get involved. Believe me, there have been many tales of data loss since solid state started to be widely used, and the majority of them seem to have been down to human error rather than hardware failure.

When you speak of "discipline to back-up SxS cards immediately" that may work well for you - but may not be practical for such as a news cameraman required to hand over material whilst continuing to film. And the journalists prime interest may be just getting the story to air ASAP, he may have far less interest in the longer term or archive situation, may have to prioritise his workload. Similarly, if a cameraman has a long shoot, juggling downloading with carrying on shooting is an accident waiting to happen - and one which many people have had experience of.

In some circumstances, such as a feature film, an answer may be to have a dedicated data wrangler - but that's not really practical, let alone economic, in a news situation! It's in such cases that SD card usage has value - the ability to treat the media as consumable (as tape) is seen as more relevant than absolute hardware reliability. Though SD cards are far more robust than many may have you believe.

But please don't think I'm suggesting that SD card usage is the right thing for all users. I feel it's the CHOICE of SxS or SD card usage that makes the XDCAM offering so strong. Horses for courses.

The Panasonic AG-AC90 AVCCAM is not a broadcast approved codec, but does have (2) SD card slots that can be written to simultaneously, copy for you, copy for me.

What I heard is that it's to enable them to have many, many more individual SD cards than could be afforded if they spent the same money on SxS - not simply to be cheapskate! I understand that the reliability of using SD cards has been very good.

Which means the workflow can have the best advantages of solid state without giving up the best features of tape. In terms of shooting it means that not only can a cameraman treat the cards as he would tape in the past (shoot, handover, forget) but the cards can be kept for a period intact before formatting and reuse.

It's something I've felt for a long time - in terms of risk the main threat is human error (accidental deletion) rather than technical failure, and presumably the BBC have come to the same conclusion. Getting away from a workflow where you have to have a shoot-download-format-reuse routine to free up cards to carry on shooting can only be a good thing IMO. It's also why the PMW700 and 800 are still so heavily used on many productions, in spite of their disadvantages over the PMW500 in terms of power consumption, weight etc.

There are very good reasons to do exactly that in some situations. As a personal example, some of the work I do involves recording interviews and playing not just them back to the participants but other videos as well. It makes life easy to start off with a blank card in one slot of the camera (for the days recordings) and a card in the other camera slot pre-loaded with the pre-existing videos rendered to XDCAM card format. So everything gets played back from the camera, simply a case of switching slot to go between the two.

In a more broadcast situation (news, sports OB etc) the link may have to transmit back both cards straight out of the camera and locally edited material. If in the case of the latter the edit is laid back onto a SxS or SD card in camera format it not only reduces the amount of re-rendering, but makes for a simpler operation. The link only has to worry about dealing with one format, one media.

It's worth saying that all those EBU recommendations are just that - recommendations. They are not rules, and certainly not laws. If a broadcaster doesn't abide by them, it's their affair - they won't face sanctions. That said, there is a lot of sense behind the recommendations and a lot of sense in adhering to them in general.

But they can throw up anomalies if they were to be rigidly adhered to. For example, the Canon XF305 is designated as being in 2L whilst the Sony PMW350 is in 2J. If I was commissioning material and a cameraman offered a choice of those two cameras my inclination would be to go with the PMW350...... (Especially if lowlight ability was to be significant. :-) )

Discovery/natgeo etc are pretty strict about 50 mbps.. and what percentage they allow of less than that per program.. or conditions that they will allow it.. it would be the productions company that would be in hot water not the broadcaster .. they also a sometimes illogical list of approved camera,s too..

My concern regarding which NLE software is I'm Avid trained and can edit quickly and efficiently with this. But upgrading to MC 6.5 is expensive, but may be the best way for me. Though I'm not sure about how well it handles XDCam EX material.

Maybe someone can clarify which system imports and exports footage simply and most efficiently.

I don't have to edit every day, but I do pretty regularly. Plus, I have a couple of projects coming up where I'll be shooting and editing longer features in HD. So I need to sort something as my current laptop and Avid software is only ok for SD.

That's why I thought about FCP X if I buy a MacBook as its around £200 it may be worth trying as an alternative now there have been the various upgrades, etc. But obviously there's the time consuming element of learning how to use it.

I can see why others have moved to Adobe Premiere if it's very similar to FCP 7, that makes perfect sense.



My previous post (above) may have been lost amongst comments about recording media and rates.

Therefore, I thought I'd list it again. I would be interested to know how simply (or not as the case may be) Avid and FCP handle XDcam Ex material for importing and exporting, etc.

With FCP X, it needs to put a QuickTime wrapper around the XDCAM EX files before it can work with them. Sony has a plug-in (for FCP X) which you can download from their site which will automatically wrap them in QuickTime when you tell it to import the XDCAM EX files. It's pretty quick and simple, but it does take extra drive space for the new QuickTime files. Alternately, you can put the XDCAM EX files into QuickTime wrappers before you import into FCP X using an application such as XDCAM Browser or XDCAM Transfer (available from the Sony website).

You can export in whichever codec you wish (ProRes, XDCAM EX or whatever) either directly from the FCP X timeline or via Compressor.

Everything David said also applies to FCP7.

Great, thanks for that info.
I've heard exporting to a DVD for a client can cause a drop in quality due to QuickTime. Do you know if this is the case?
Clients over here tend to prefer a format they can use instantly like a DVD or SDHC card rather than a more pro formats such as a SxS card as they don't have the right equipment to watch it, copy it, etc.
Also wondering whether Avid has a similar set up. From research it looks as though you have to use its AMA system though I have to be honest I'm not sure how this works.
Any hints would be gratefully received.

As I said in post #5 of this thread, the client should tell you how they want the content delivered. DVD and SxS cards are at totally opposite ends of the spectrum and serve totally different purposes, so it's not really a question of which one is better -- it all depends on what client needs. For example, do they want original clips they can edit themselves, or do they want to sit down and watch a fully-edited and finished production? The answer to that question will dictate how you deliver.

BTW, there's nothing wrong with Quicktime. Just because a video file is inside a Quicktime wrapper, that doesn't tell you anything at all about the quality of the footage. Quicktime is just a file format, or a container if you want to call it that, and that container could hold anything from high-end ProRes 4444 images all the way down to the crappiest quality YouTube video.

If it's not urgent, Lightworks is doing a lot of recovering lost ground on the video front. Currently not available for the Mac OS, although that's being previewed at NAB. You can use an AVID keyboard and increasing numbers of professionals like using it. Lightworks (http://www.lwks.com/)

The Pro version should met your codec requirements.

Not heard of lightworks, I'll have a look at the link, thanks.

Doug, for my clients it's a fully edited finished item, so a DVD is something they can watch and copy easily.

Thanks for the clarification re: QuickTime. Maybe what I read was wrong about loss of quality when exporting from a Mac to a DVD. This was a big concern when i read this. Maybe they didn't have it set up right - who knows?

Well, just to be clear, a DVD is obviously going to be a lot lower quality than the original camera footage. But that's because of the limitations of DVD My point is that it has nothing at all to do with pros and cons of Quicktime.

If you want to give your clients an excellent finished product that is easy to view on a regular TV, then give them a Blu-ray version. You can buy a Blu-ray player these days for about $50 and the quality is excellent.

Good point. Thanks.

Brian, the Lightworks software is fantastic value!

It would be interesting to hear your thoughts as a user (I take it that you are?) as to what it's like to use and what other system you think it's similar to, etc (maybe none at all).

Surprised I've not heard of it before!

Doug, besides blue ray DVD, do you (or others) export to SDHC as well? Just wondering as it's easy for clients to play via their computer and then it can be copied in many ways. Just a thought...

I've never delivered a finished edited production on any kind of memory card before, nor would I recommend it. Sometimes I'll deliver either a hard drive or an XDCAM optical disc, but never a memory card. Sometimes the client wants it posted on Vimeo. Sometimes they want it FTP'd to them. Again, it all comes down to what the client specifies or what I recommend to them based on their unique needs.

... besides blue ray DVD, do you (or others) export to SDHC as well? Just wondering as it's easy for clients to play via their computer and then it can be copied in many ways.

As one of the "or others", I'm noticing a very recent trend (at least in my neck of the woods) to deliver on a USB stick. Just over the past month or two. Most modern blu-ray players have a USB port in the front to insert and play movies from a USB stick. And the newer (large widescreen) TVs have a USB port in the side or back and the TV will play the 1080p movie without any need for an external player.

I've had two recent jobs calling for USB stick delivery: one asked for delivery in SD DVDs plus the 1080p version in .mp4 on a USB stick, the other as a 1080p upload to their YouTube channel plus the 1080p .mp4 movie on a USB stick. With the latter job, the USB was put into the side of a large TV on the client's wall and played/displayed from there. (And, by the way, this really showed what a great final image and resolution you can get from the EX1R. Especially if you use Doug's Picture Profile!)

I don't recommend using FCP X or Compressor to make a 1080p .mp4 if you're playing it directly from the TV set. I found that it would start stuttering about 2 minutes in. When I used Adobe Media Encoder (using the same bitrate settings as the Apple applications), it gave me a file of about half the size (I have no idea why, given they seemed to have the same bitrate settings!) and it plays perfectly on all players plus looks spectacular.

Of course, you could put them on SDHC cards if you wanted to, instead of USB sticks, but I would imagine that the sticks would be more robust, plus I'm not sure whether blu-ray players have the card slots or not.

But it all depends on what the individual client requests for final delivery.

Doug, besides blue ray DVD, do you (or others) export to SDHC as well? Just wondering as it's easy for clients to play via their computer and then it can be copied in many ways. Just a thought...
This is what i was referring to earlier. With the XDCAM EX codec and the correct software it's quite feasible to lay an edited sequence back to an SDHC card as if it is a compatible camera recording.

Would it be a good idea? The answer must be "it depends". Advantages would include that it is compatible with NLEs - if they handle importing XDCAM EX from the camera, they'll handle such sequences. If "smart render" is used there is no recoding of most of the footage, only a few frames in the GOP around edit points, or when grading, effects etc are done. It maintains full HD quality, and enables you to give any client physical media with an HD recording. And compared to a harddrive, an SDHC card is cheap. Same when compared to an XDCAM disc (depending on size) and it doesn't need any client to have a XDCAM player - just an SD card slot.

Disadvantages? Check any client can handle it. Have they got the neccessary software to enable them to play it? DVDs are obviously the simplest media, and easiest to find players for - but by definition are standard definition. If you want to stay HD, you need to make a Blu-Ray (and the client needs a Blu-Ray player!), though I believe it is possible to author a limited length HD recording on a standard DVD disc, though it will need a Blu-Ray player for replay.
Of course, you could put them on SDHC cards if you wanted to, instead of USB sticks, but ...........
A possible advantage of SDHC card is if you lay it down in the original XDCAM file format, it can be replayed in a camera or XDCAM player the same as an original camera clip. That may or not be useful. (It is to me.)
But it all depends on what the individual client requests for final delivery.
Exactly.

Brian, the Lightworks software is fantastic value!

It would be interesting to hear your thoughts as a user (I take it that you are?) as to what it's like to use and what other system you think it's similar to, etc (maybe none at all).


Lightworks is one of the original NLEs, it has a console that replicates how film editors used the Steenbeck controller. That's the fastest way to use Lightworks, however, there are also a number methods for editing with Lightworks using a mouse and keyboard.

That's the big thing about it, it's very flexible and allows you to work the way you want to work. However, you do need to learn its little ways, what seems strange at first you discover is very sensible. You need to invest a bit of time, but it has a simple logic.

You won't be feel too put off coming from either AVID or FCP, but the interface is different and you can arrange the layout the way you like for the task you're doing. The fact that it's not rigid does put some people off at first.

There is a Lightworks keyboard that works better with the program than the AVID or FCP keyboards, although you have the option of using use these keyboards. Instead of marking in and out, you "mark and park" the mark is the "in" and where you park is automatically taken as the out point - that works in either direction. It autosaves as you work, so you don't lose anything.

Training materials are at an early stage, but there are video tutorials and lots of on line help at their forum. If you have a question chances are you'll have an answer very quickly. The developers keep an eye on the forum as well and sometimes new features get put into the next build within hours of a suggestion.

There are user guides as well, but currently no third party how to books, although I hear someone is writing one. I gather there is a certificated training scheme starting later in the year. Editshare, who now own Lightworks, have a long background in post production.

Currently it's only Windows, although the LINUX version is in public beta and the Mac version is being previewed at NAB.

You can use and experiment with the free version for as long as you like. The Pro version has a wider range of codec and other features.

One issue I've run into with USB thumb drives (sticks) is that sometimes the data transfer rates to write to them can be dreadfully slow. (Not to say that all thumb drives are slow, but they don't have speed ratings printed on them -- and when a client brings one and asks you to transfer 20 or 30GB of data onto it, it can really push the envelope at the end of the day.) Obviously not as big an issue if you're outputting a more compressed .mp4 file or a shorter piece. But at least with SDHC cards or hard drives you have a pretty good idea what the transfer speeds will be before you start.

Kevin,

I can't answer all your questions, but I'll quickly give you a few words of advice:

1) Forget about FCP. Everyone I know who used to use it is moving to something else. I have recently moved to Premiere CS6, and although there are some features I miss from FCP, overall it is a much better program and Adobe is more committed to the future of professional editing than Apple. Plus the integration with the rest of the Adobe suite (Photoshop, After Effects, Bridge, Encoder, Illustrator, etc.) is excellent. Avid is also an option, but I think you'd be happier with Adobe. If you want to go with Avid I have an unopened Symphony 6 box sitting on my shelf I will sell you cheap. :-)

2) What you deliver to a client, depends entirely on the client. It could be anything from a DVD, Blu-ray, hard drive, FTP, an XDCAM optical disc, or any other device that can hold computer files. I suppose there are still people who output to tape. My favorite deliverable is XDCAM optical discs, but the client must have a device to read it. You'd have to find out from your client BEFORE you even begin production what they expect as a deliverable.

3) Use the camera's UDF mode so you can shoot at 50Mbps. And don't ever use SDHC cards. I don't know if the 500 is compatible with XQD cards yet, but if it is, that is the way to go. The new PMW-200/160/100 cameras can use XQD cards for all video formats (including UDF) and they are a fraction of the price of SxS cards.

Hope that helps point you in the right direction.

Well my workflow and migration to it about 18 month ago are the following and i do respect Doug Jensen
but i disagree with is POV on FCP X at least for me it is a great way to produce great videos.

Before i was using Final Cut Studio 3 (FCP 7,DVD Pro 4,Motion 4,Compressor 3,Soundtrack Pro,Color)
but i was only using mostly FCP 7,Motion 4 and Compressor 3.

The migration take about 3 Month with the help of the tutorials from Larry Jordan and also Ripple Training.
I deliver mostly Blu-Ray , a few DVD and now think about Web from Vimeo pay-per-view Services.

I shoot using XDCAM EX and now XDCAM HD MPEG HD 4:2:2 on SxS Sony Cards only using the Sony
PMW-200 and strongly suggest you buy the Doug Jensen tutorial on the PMW-100,150.200 XDCAM HD MPEG HD 4:2:2 Camcorders that will save you time and get the best from those camcorders.

I ingest all my shooting using Sony Content Browser now at 2.0.1 using Sony Advanced Pack as the serial number licence who still valid (but you can get a free licence if you register and download before june 2013 ... so do-it now ).

All editing done in FCP X , a few FX using Motion 5 , Output DVD or Blu-Ray or the Web using Compressor 4 since i only need Transitions,Titling, Chapters Markers on my productions.

I have also Davinci Resolve Lite 9.1.1 with tutorials but still have not use-it for the moments.

I i was an hollywood guys probably i will jump on Autodesk Smoke 2013 (Mac Only Software).

I talk to many users of Adobe suite who is a great suite but very few use all the softwares included,
at least in the one man band Production ( you can earn a living using only Photoshop or After Effects).

If i may without offending anybody i would say many one man band if on the PC side could use Sony Vegas Pro 12 not because Adobe is bad maybe just Overkill and expensive for what they need.
I cant recommend Avid because is even more expensive and mostly for Broadcast or Hollywood.

Hope i have not light a fire thats only my humble opinion of what have work for me.

I would never, ever use a SDHC-card as a final product to deliver to anyone. These cards are way too flimsy and vulnerable for that purpose. I even split one in two with my finger nail when trying to remove it from my GoPro camera. My pro still camera's all use the much sturdier Compact Flash cards and believe me: that is no coincidence...

I also split an SDHC card in two, but it happened when I was putting it into a reader. All footage lost. SDHC cards are for consumers, not for professional applications.

I would never, ever use a SDHC-card as a final product to deliver to anyone. These cards are way too flimsy and vulnerable for that purpose. I even split one in two with my finger nail when trying to remove it from my GoPro camera. My pro still camera's all use the much sturdier Compact Flash cards and believe me: that is no coincidence...
A year or so ago I may have agreed with that - now I'm not so sure.

SD cards do have two advantages over CF - a "lock" switch and flat contacts, not pins and socket. I find it hard to believe, but I have heard a few recent stories of pins on CF connectors getting bent due to forceful insertion of the cards the wrong way round.... (Yes, I know, I know.....!)

Point is that they are so cheap that you could supply two copies of material on two cards, they can always be reused when the client has the material where they want it. And is anything ever fully secure? I've never previously heard tales of SD cards splitting before - but I have heard of hard drive failures - especially if they get dropped!

I've made over 30.000 shots on CF-cards over more than 10 years and I never saw one that was physically damaged. Moreover, it is virtually impossible to insert a CF-card the wrong way round in a professional camera, because there is a notch preventing that.

As Doug points out: SD(HC) is for (careful) consumers, not for pro use. I hate to use it in my GoPro, and so I hate it even more that in the GoPro 3 it's a Micro SD... It's gonna be one of the reasons I'll be looking for other brands if I want to replace my first Hero cam.