If you hadn't figured this out from my last few posts, I am pretty new to this whole thing, but I have a pretty good start in regards to equipment. I am going to be a DSLR shooter and I currently have….

Canon T3i
kit lens
nifty fifty
70-200mm
3 soft box lights
2 tripods (1 with a decent fluid head)
3 or 4 light stands
2 sets of wireless mics (Azden)
mini (tabletop) tripod
camera backpack

I'm looking to get into corporate work, but I am currently shooting just about anything currently just to get better.

I got my tax refund back and my wife is letting me (yea yea I know) spend $500 on my new "hobby"

I was wondering what advice you would have on what I should purchase with the money. I have considered on here purchasing a steadicam which some have said was a bad idea for me currently.

I would like to jump up and get a 60D, which I know I can't get for that money, but it could be an option used.

I also want a slider, which would be a great purchase I believe.

A new lens could be a smart purchase for me.

I am considering a Rode shotgun mic

Or do you guys think I should simply purchase a lot of the little things that are imporant (new SD cards, straps, cases, etc).

Any advice you can give would be VERY much appreciated. Thanks!!!

If you are planning on being a DSLR shooter I wouldn't bother buying another camera until you can go all the way and get a Mark III. That being said, do you have an external mic for recording nats with? Rode is a pretty popular choice for a mic that will sit in the accessory shoe. Also, if you are mounting lots of stuff to your camera there are products out there that mount in the shoe that basically just make it bigger so you can mount multiple things such as lights, mics, and recorders. The one I have is made by Cam Caddie. What is your editing situation looking like? It doesn't matter how much you spend on cameras and such if you have nothing to edit with.

Hello again, Brock,

From your list I would recommend the shotgun mic, or nothing, and keep the rest on hold for expendables.

To get the most out of an expensive shotgun, you need somebody to hold it. If you decide to buy one you can use it as an on-camera (and if you are shooting with a DSLR, I would recommend buying one that is compatible and camera-mountable) you still won't really see the benefit unless you are very close. For corporate when I work alone, I rely heavily on my lavalieres.

As for the other stuff, it's all cool stuff to have, but you should probably just get down to making some money so that it won't feel like a "hobby" anymore. My rule of thumb for earned revenue is 50/50 to my household and to the business account. Currently, that has me in a surplus, which is good. Over time, I plan to feather down that percentage so that more goes to the household and less is held "in escrow," if you will.

It's amazing how fast the expenses of this business can suck your money away. But in my humble opinion, that is one of the first points of distinction between a hobbyist and a professional: a hobbyist works to fund his equipment acquisitions, while professionals cultivate the discipline that is necessary to make their tools work for them.

I know you're just starting out, and are bound to be in the red for a while. Just try not to feed the techno-beast ALL the proceeds of your efforts that could be going to your family! I can't tell you how satisfying it was the first time that I was actually able to pay off my equipment and cut an income check to our household account.

Something with more control than a Ti3 and fast zoom are on the horizon, too, but with only $500 to spend you won't make that just yet. Mark is probably right about skipping the 60D, just because the improvement is incremental and every time you change cameras you lose money, so you don't want to do it all the time. Hang in there.

If you put the Magic Lantern program into your t3i...you'll have pretty much ALL of those extra functions of the 60D...plus a few more.

http://www.magiclantern.fm/downloads.html

I use a t3i for a reverse camera on two camera shoots and that program, in that camera, is awesome.

That frees you up to spend that money somewhere else.

Why not go for the nice Rode mic and a slider?

I've heard lots of good things about the Optika sliders when it comes to budget versus quality.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Opteka/Ntt/Opteka+GLD+Camera+Slider/N/0/c/buy/#inpage:In+Stock

You might have some money left over for those consumables...like new cards!

I agree with others...a steadicam is overkill at this point in time.

Corporate work requires good audio, how are you monitoring your audio?
You need an audio interface or separate audio recorder especially if you have dual Lav setup.

Magic Lantern will give you meters and that can help with peaking (if you're watching them) and you can buy or make a custom cord that allows headphone monitoring out of the camera USB but IMO it's not good enough, the volume isn't loud enough.

Many times you don't have time to setup sliders and steadicams get the basics down solid.

Great advice guys..

I do currently have Magic Lantern installed which has really helped save a few shots with the focusing tool and I love the rack focus tool on it. So far those are the only two things I've used, but I'm glad I installed that.

I am currently editing on Final Cut Pro X. I am very familiar with it and it comes prety easy to me now, though I've heard some other programs may be better.

So do you not think that the difference between the T3i and the 60D is a big enough difference to purchase one? I don't imagine that I will be close to purchasing a Mark III anytime in the next few years. I'd love to have one, I just don't think It's in my budget yet.

Also, would a Rode shotgun mic be what I need to get natural sound? I read a few things where people were saying they are more for interviews. Is that true? I shoot a lot in my church and would love to get natural sound of the service, but not sure if something like that would work for me.

Any suggestions on what to purchase to get that natural sound?

$500 won't get you to where you need. You'll want another camera, even just for backup, though the T3i should probably end up as your backup or B camera. The 70D's autofocus is wonderful ($1100), otherwise the 60D (wasn't someone selling them for $450 on this board?) or a 5dMark ii (used for $1000 or so) will be great full frame for this stage for you.

While magic lantern will fix most of the issues with the T3i, the real problem will be light/noise if you're ever in a dim area. Even our 70D (also crop factor) does a lot better with noise versus the T3i, nevermind a nice full frame camera that won't need to push the ISO. They'll also look better with more dynamic range.

Audio is half your video so a good microphone is key, so if it's not a 2nd camera, I'd go with the shotgun mic, too, and *maybe* even a pocket recorder and microphone so you're not dependent on the wireless.

I'm happy with this:
Rode Stereo VideoMic Pro STEREO VIDEOMIC PRO B&H Photo Video

It's not directional, but it's easy and gives a nice sound.
You're missing a wide angle lens in your kit, too.

So by "not directional" you mean that it is designed to get natural sound instead of being used for interviews?

So the Rode shotgun mix for $268 on B&H is more for interviews and the mic you just linked to is more for natural sound? Just making sure I'm getting that right?

Yes, that mic is good for ambient/natural sound. I wouldn't use a shotgun for an interview unless it's on a boom stand 12" from the speaker. Rely on your lavs for that. The mic above is good for run and gun.

I couldn't find a link to the cable i'm talking about.
I am about to sell my T2i and 60D if you're interested. Not sure on prices yet.

Hey Mark! Hope everything is going well.

Brock, I would say from reading your posts, take some of the money and buy an audio production how-to book. Or a course etc... Learning about audio is so important to making good video. Knowledge is far more useful than a misplaced expensive microphone.

My other suggestion is maybe a decent tripod/head but that will depend upon how you end up making your money (what kinds of jobs you do). As you already know, $500 does not go very far in the grand scheme of things. :(

For corporate work, church recordings, and interviews? I'd focus on audio for sure.

For the best quality at the lowest cost, you want to use a wire, rather than wireless. (A $20 cable outperforms a $2,000 transmitter.)

Let's start with the recorder. Entry-level pro recorders include the Zoom H4n, Tascam DR-100 Mk II, DR-40, and the Tascam DR-60D (which looks really interesting, though I haven't used it.) These are in the $200-$300 range and are adequate. We moved up to the Fostex FR-2LE, which is much cleaner but it's larger and about twice the price.

Next you need the $20 cable. This means that your interviews are fixed (seated or standing), but that's not a bad thing. It's much tougher to move the camera, have good lighting over a distance, and to avoid causing unwanted sounds when walking.

For the mic, I'll bust your budget by recommending a Sanken COS-11D lavalier mic (the version with the XLR connector) or COS-11DBP (can run on batteries). It sounds absolutely great and you will never need to upgrade it. You'll eventually want a second mic for the times you want more than one person on camera.

Alternatively, you could go with a mic on a stand. your interviews will be indoors, so you'll want a hypercardioid. A good (but not "the best") mic is the Audio Technical AT4053b. It costs more than the Sanken, which is why I recommend the lavalier. You can get an A+ lav for less money than for a B+ hyper. The advantage with the hyper is that you can put it on a stand for a solo, seated interview and you can also have somebody hold a boom when you want to record more than one person.

The final "trick" is to get some stands and moving blankets. Let's say you have large windows behind the camera. These will give a hard reflection that will make your audio sound "cheap". Hang the blankets to tame the reflections and your result will immediately go from amateur to pro. And don't forget to find a spot with minimum heating and air conditioning sounds.

The Rode Videomic Pro recommended above is great for an on-camera environmental mic (I own one), but it's no good for interviews. Get a lav/hyper and recorder for that.

You'll also want headphones. Take a look at the Sony MDR-7506, Sennheiser HD 25-SP II, or Sennheiser HD 280 Pro. The Sonys are a bit bright, which is nice for cutting through the ambient sound, the HD 25-SPs are very sensitive so they work in loud environments, and the HD 280 Pros are probably the most accurate and best choice if you do midnight mixing. Note that the HD 25-SPs are on-ear headphones and the others are over-the-ear. You can't make a bad choice among these.

With these tools and good technique, your interviews will sound absolutely professional - at a cost of about $800. Use your current gear with good lighting and you're there. On the other hand, there's nothing that you can do to improve the video-side enough to overcome low-quality sound.

Great advice guys..

I do currently have Magic Lantern installed which has really helped save a few shots with the focusing tool and I love the rack focus tool on it. So far those are the only two things I've used, but I'm glad I installed that.


My favorite part of ML, apart from the focus assist, is how I can dial in a specific color temp...instead of just going by a picture of a sun, bulb or cloud to get an average Kelvin temp setting. ;)

Oh yes...and the t3i 3X Crop feature too!

Absolutely amazing advice guys. I really appreciate it.

Let me ask you this. After reviewing the answers here and comparing them with what I will be doing, I have realized that I really need a few things...

A good lav mic. Perhaps this one. The folks and B&H said it was the best one for the price.
Audio-Technica AT899 - Condenser Lavalier Microphone AT899 B&H

A good mic for natural sound. I was looking at the Rode Stereo VideoMic Pro
Rode Stereo VideoMic Pro + Dead Kitten Windshield Bundle B&H

I also want a slider for a few things I have coming up and I thought the Opteka would be a good/cheap slider. I hear a lot of people say it's pretty amazing for the price.
Opteka GLD-200 23" Camera Track Slider Video Stabilization System (http://opteka.com/gld200.aspx)

All of that said, I do have a question. It was suggested that I get a recorder (maybe something like the Zoom H4 (Zoom H4n Handy Mobile 4-Track Recorder ZH4N B&H Photo Video)
I was just wondering how necessary that is? I know that it will allow me to use XLR mics in it, but can't I just find a cheaper adapter to allow me to do that? Would this actually increase the quality of my sound or would it just allow me to watch my levels? I'm just not sure why I need it. Why can't I just get an extender for my lav mic and plug it into my camera? That would also solve the issue of having to sync audio in post. That said, would something like the h4n work as well as the Rode Stereo VideoMic Pro at getting natural sound for b-roll? Comparable?

Thanks for your help guys. You all are live savers for a new guy getting into this. It means a lot

I have the AT899 and it is a nice lav mic. For your budget I would say it is a winner. I have had Peluso condensor mics for many years and feel they are a great value for the dollar as well. CEMC-6

You do not want to plug anything audio into the camera because your camera is a still camera masquerading as a video camera! Its audio inputs are not at professional sound levels or have phantom power to run the condensers. They make some on-camera mics for DSLRs, but good technique does not include on camera mics very often. This is why I mentioned learning first before buying anything. Do a search for Jay Rose and audio production books. His books have a lot of useful info.

For camera-mounted sound, the Rode Videomic Pro is a good way to go. That said, I almost never use it. I would mainly want it where I'm just walking around, handheld. I don't shoot much like that so I don't tend to use it. If I were in a newsworthy event, say in a city after an earthquake, that's when I'd want that style mic.

For ambient sound, like near a waterfall, an X-Y array on a stand is a better solution. It will offer a stereo spread and for stereo, you don't want the image moving around with the camera.

For the lav, yes, the AT899 is good. You can also consider the AT803b. It's cheaper and sounds slightly better. Why? It's in a larger package. Part of what you pay for with a lav is small size. That said, the AT803b (which I used to own) is much noisier and much less sensitive (-45 dB) than the Sanken COS-11D (-35dB). Personally, I think the AT803b is good for public speaking but not so great for professional audio for video. The AT899 is only 2 dB more sensitive (-43dB). Not a bad choice for your budget but it's more of a stepping stone than a destination.

A separate recorder gives you a few things, mainly XLR connectors, phantom power, and lower noise at higher gains. It will also give 24-bit recording (vs. 16 into your camera), meters, headphone out, and more options. For instance, during a speech or press conference, you can place the recorder on the lectern and use the internal mics - which works okay if the speaker doesn't move around a lot. Also, remember those X-Y mic's I mentioned? Those are built into many of the recorders.

If you prefer recording into the camera, consider a juicedLink preamp. Some models offer phantom power and they provide clean preamps and boost into the camera. You're using Magic Lantern, which allows you to put the camera audio into a lower noise setting than does the Canon firmware. You can use a battery-powered mic into a transformer adapter from XLR to single ended connector, but it won't be as immune to interference (such as cell phone signals and power cord hum) and won't have the low noise of a good preamp.

You can see how things stack up: The AT899 has 8dB more noise than the Sanken. The passive adapter has much more noise than a good preamp. The camera has more noise than a good recorder. That adds up to a lot of hiss. You can do noise reduction, but that removes the fidelity of the voice and can make it sound underwater.

On the $500 budget, I'd choose the Tascam DR-40 as it gives you stereo mics for ambient recording at a low price, the AT899 as an inexpensive interview lavalier, and the Sony or Sennheiser headphones. Note that you'll mainly set the levels using the meters but that you want headphones so you can hear problems, such as a bad connection, clothes rustling over the mic, or the sound of audible dogs/kids/planes/traffic in the background. The headphones make sure that you don't get back to the edit bay without usable audio. Accessories might include stands, blankets, and a furry wind protector for the recorder's mics.

Earlier, you had asked about a slider. This would be mainly for b-roll, rather than the main interview footage. If your b-roll includes moving objects like people and cars, a tripod or similar will do the trick - just track the thing that's moving and it will look great. If the footage is of static objects like a stapler, pad of paper, or a flower in still air, a slider adds motion to what would otherwise be a still image. Consider if your b-roll objects move to decide if a slider is necessary.

But b-roll is secondary. Nail your interview footage first - especially the sound. Consider that you could play the sound of an interview on the radio without picture but you couldn't play the video of an interview on TV without sound.

Jon Fairhurst's words of wisdom are some very good ones.
For corporate work, church recordings, and interviews? I'd focus on audio for sure.

On the mic side, I was going to mention the AT899 too like what the previous poster wrote, only because I have one and it is a really sweet mic setup. One word of caution about it is the cable between the battery and the mic is really delicate and from what I gather is not repairable so cautioning the talent would be really important to protect the investment.

A less expensive route would be to use a wired hand-held mic and instruct the talent how to hold it properly when talking.

The recorder is another good suggestion to avoid the camera noise. This would be perfect with the church scenario to avoid a long cable run.

There is one other option for the interview setup, and probably just as expensive as with the recorder, and that is to use a quiet preamp like a JuicedLink pre. What it does is basically boost the audio to a higher db level so the camera noise is not as significant. How that would work with your camera, AGC, and whatever settings, I wouldn't know, but the concept is essentially to provide a louder signal. One of the earliest models was the CX211 (discontinued) and it has both 2x XLR inputs and one mini input. The next model up was the CX231. I got mine off eBay but craigslist is also an option.

The camera-mounted preamp works well with a camera-mounted mic (which should be avoided but many people do it anyway).

Speaking of used mics (and a lot of other stuff), there are Chinese counterfeit copies of the good mics floating around so be very careful buying used good-name mics.

Speaking of a B-cam, this would be nice to have. If one could find a cheap used camera to used as a B-cam that would really add to the viewing pleasure of a video then when you upgrade your existing camera the old one could be the B-cam. I found a used full HD cam for $60 that worked really well as a B-cam so it can be done. Really makes the video look "richer".

I think audio is the biggest gap in your list, and a zoom hn4 or similar for stereo ambience and two xlr mic inputs is needed, with a shotgun mic.
You may want to think about if you will be shooting handheld, because some kind of rig would really help. Not a big Franken-rig, as they are a pain to set up and can be unwieldy and awkward. I had myself all rigged up and found a stripped down rig that can mount on a monopod is much much better...
I don't think the 60d will help much, as it is the same quality image. I have a t3i and a 5dmii, both with magic lantern, and they mostly sit in the bag now that i have a 70d. Great camera, and the auto focus is so useful, though a bit quirky sometimes when it is choosing what to focus on. I would hold off on a camera until you fill the audio gap. Two cameras shooting with bad audio is not twice as much better, but great audio with one skillfully used camera can be infinitely better. And maybe the new auto focus will be available in a full frame camera when your gigs pay off...
Welcome to the video money pit!

So basically the benefits of a recorder are…

Gives you the ability to use XLR jacks (XLR gives higher quality)
Gives ability to monitor sound to get the highest quality

I'm sure there are other benefits, but those are probably the only two that will effect me.

So when I go into post, will I just have to go all the way through the interviews and find the places where the sound matches the video and sync it that way? Seems like a lot more work than recording through the camera.

Also, this Rode Stereo Video Mic Pro (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/839897-REG/Rode_STEREO_VIDEOMIC_PRO_Sterei_VideoMic_Pro.html) is a great mic for natural sound, will a recorder give me the type of sound that the Rode will?

There is this option...uses the tripod mounting hole on the bottom of the DSLR to attach to the camera and gives you direct, two-channel audio right into the camera.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/838945-REG/Azden_FMX_DSLR_FMX_DSLR_Portable_Audio_Mixer.html


The unit has an additional hole on the other side so you can still mount your camera to a tripod.

Plus...it is well under five hundred bucks.

There are more expensive ones, but it gives you the ability to use professional XLR connectors to jack your audio into your camera and you don't have to worry about synching anything in post.

But most choose to just sync in post? I'm sure there must be an easy way to do it if a lot of people choose that route.

A couple more questions...

This recorder Tascam DR-60D 4-Channel Linear PCM Recorder DR-60D B&H Photo is similar and screws into the bottom of the camera. The only issue would be not being able to reach the talent with the mic. Would I simply get a extender?

This is the one I have been suggest to get a lot (Zoom H4n) Zoom H4n Handy Mobile 4-Track Recorder ZH4N B&H Photo Video I imagine this is a pretty good recorder. It is a bit more.

Now this onehttp://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/600761-REG/Zoom_H4N_H4n_Handy_Mobile_4_Track.html is only $100 and I've read that its great. That said, it doesn't have XLR jacks. Is that really important? Will XLR really give me that much better audio quality?

Keep in mind...if you use a stand alone audio recorder...you're going to be starting a new career as a juggler.
Not that it can't be done.
I do like that first Tascam R-60D recorder.
I wonder how much physical space and weight it adds to your camera?
But best of all...you don't have to learn any juggling!
I've synched audio often enough and it's not that hard.
But it is an extra step that you can choose to avoid if you want to...or...not. ;)

Good points...

Does XLR really add that much more quality to the audio?

Brock,

Step back a second and think again that you are using a consumer stills camera for video use. A lot of people here want to use professional video gear for video use. They want this because it is designed to work well in the video world.

XLRs are just connectors, but they are the industry standard connector. This means all of the "good" equipment is made with an XLR connector. I am sure the Rode on-camera DSLR mic is fine but it is only for on-camera use. If you do not see why the mic needs to be used off of the camera most of the time then learning is more important to you right now than buying.

Buy cheap buy often is the phrase that fits here. Buying good stuff (often expensive) will last and serve you much longer.

And yes, recording straight into the camera is the easiest method and most used in normal video work until you get to very high end work where the sound recording equipment is better than even a professional video camera. But this is a downside to DSLRs for video work. They force you to use a separate audio recorder or preamp device if you want very good sound.

My point here is to learn the industry standard practices and why they are done that way. This will then lead you to what you need to buy for YOUR needs. Us folk on the internet will suggest things until the cows come home. We love spending other peoples' money!

Thanks for the pep talk Tim. Much appreciated.

You make a lot of good points. I guess I just want more than my current $500 spending spree will get me so I'm trying to cut some corners here and there. Perhaps 2 purchases of higher quality audio gear will be the best direction for me currently.

Thanks again.

Hi Brock. Many questions deserve many answers. :)

> So basically the benefits of a recorder are…
>
> Gives you the ability to use XLR jacks (XLR gives higher quality)
> Gives ability to monitor sound to get the highest quality

I'd say that you can benefit from all of these points:
- XLRs are robust and don't accidentally pull out or have intermittent connections.
- XLRs imply "balanced" wiring, which rejects interference from radio waves.
- More importantly, a good preamp means less hiss. DSLRs don't have good preamps.
- Visual monitoring helps you set proper levels.
- Audio monitoring helps you avoid screw ups. (Rather than giving high quality, it avoids failure.)
- A limiter ensures that the audio won't clip badly when it gets unexpectedly loud. DSLRs lack limiters.

> So when I go into post, will I just have to go all the way
> through the interviews and find the places where the
> sound matches the video and sync it that way? Seems
> like a lot more work than recording through the camera.

I do this manually, even for 90 minute events. It's not so bad for interviews. It's harder on narrative pieces with many takes, which is why people use clapper boards and call out "Act II, Scene 5, Take 3".

The two main solutions are Plural Eyes, which can sync audio & video automatically, and to use an external preamp into the camera. If you go with a preamp, I highly recommend a juicedLink over an Azden. I've tested the noise of the juicedLink CX231 and it reaps every last bit of quality that I can get from a 5D2 and Magic Lantern. You can see my reviews here: vimeo.com/5370880

> Also, this Rode Stereo Video Mic Pro ( BH (Links) ) is a
> great mic for natural sound, will a recorder give me the
> type of sound that the Rode will?

When you say "natural sound", what is your application?

For an on-camera mic, I'd choose the mono Videomic Pro. Stereo isn't good for recording dialog and doesn't do well when moved around on a handheld camera. The nice thing about the Rode "pro" versions is that they have preamps that allow the mic to feed the camera a hot signal for lower noise. I like this mic best for a casual documentary use, like walking around a fairground. You get what the camera sees, but this is really for background audio, not primary audio.

The better solution for natural (ambient) sound is a stereo mic that doesn't move. Note that if you're filming a waterfall, a crowd, or crickets at night, you don't need to sync this to picture at all. That's where a recorder with built-in X-Y mics can be handy.

For recording Foley (like footsteps, opening a newspaper, a doorbell), I like using a mono mic up close to the source. You can use one channel of the X-Y mic for this purpose. You could also film with the camera and push the Videomic pro up close, but that's kind of clunky. My go-to mic is the Rode NT1-A for it's exceptionally low noise, which is great for recording subtle sounds.

> This recorder Tascam DR-60D 4-Channel Linear PCM
> Recorder DR-60D B&H Photo is similar and screws
> into the bottom of the camera. The only issue would
> be not being able to reach the talent with the mic.
> Would I simply get a extender?

You would use XLR cables, which can be linked together if necessary. Balanced cables are designed to handle very long runs.

> This is the one I have been suggest to get a lot (Zoom H4n)

I've tested the H4n and the Tascam DR-100 (original) and they had roughly the same quality. The DR-100 mkII is said to be quieter. The various Tascam XLR (with phantom power) recorders and the H4n will all deliver similar performance. Choose the one with the best mix of features, size, weight, mounting, mics, and price for your application and wallet

> Will XLR really give me that much better audio quality?

XLRs and balanced cables avoid interference and poor connectivity problems. The real magic is the electronics in the preamp, which will be much better than the preamp in the DSLR.

Overall, the best advice I can give is to consider what audio/video you really want to - and will - produce. Interviews are one thing. Live sermons are another. Walking around and casually documenting a reception is different still. Then there are choirs, news gathering, training videos, live sports recording, and short films. Each has its own requirements. If you can envision exactly what you plan to do, you can choose the best gear for the job.

Thanks Jon! Loved the comparisons (and the FedEx commercial! As a Steelers fan, it's actually good to know someone else in the NFL has a rough field)

This gives me a lot to think about and research.

As of right now, I planning on doing a lot of interviews (looking to get into corporate videos) and getting some ambient sound from wherever I am at the moment.

I am leaning toward getting the AT899 Audio-Technica AT899 - Condenser Lavalier Microphone AT899 B&H
I think it will provide a much higher quality sound than what I am currently working with.

I am also leaning toward getting the Zoom H4n Zoom H4n Handy Mobile 4-Track Recorder ZH4N B&H Photo Video
Obviously it will allow me to plug in that lav mic and from what I've heard here and researched online, it will allow me to get some pretty good quality ambient noise with the mics in the device itself

If you have and suggestions please share them.

I think this will dramatically increase the quality of my audio. Looking forward to actually having some decent equipment!

The AT899 and Zoom H4n are solid choices. Don't forget the headphones.

Come to think about it, there is another way to go with headphones: earphones. I'm not talking about ear buds (they fall out and are not sealed.) I'm talking about something like these: Shure SE215 Sound-Isolating In-Ear Stereo Earphones SE215-CL B&H (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=758628&is=REG&Q=&A=details)

A pro might laugh. They use big headphones with good sound, high sensitivity (to give high volume), and maybe a bit of boost in the high-mids to really cut through the outside sound. Here's the thing: when filming, such headphones can be psychologically and socially isolating. With earphones, you are more approachable to others. You can wear one in and one out when you want to interact. The main thing is that they will be good enough to warn you of problems, even if the quality isn't quite up to headphone level. One negative, however, is that they transmit any chewing or muscle tension in the jaw to your ears. Headphones don't seem to couple things quite as badly.

I sometimes shoot with a monopod at tradeshows like CES and NAB. Monitoring audio with earphones is much less conspicuous and I feel less cocooned. However, for shooting indoors in controlled environments, I prefer headphones. Consider your shooting style and your need to interact with random people when deciding the best path.

When filming, I recommend recording in-camera with AGC (automatic gain control) on. This gives you a reliable reference track without having to worry about levels. Whether PluralEyes is needed or not (for automatic syncing) depends on the length and randomness of your shooting.

Best of luck!

"The devil is in the details" .... and with recorders there are a LOT of details.

Several months ago there was a lot of discussion here about the features and pros and cons of the new recorder models. One comment was about locking XLR connectors and one of the models, surprisingly, didn't have any (!).

A recorder is on my To-Buy list (I've got a separate Folder just for buying stuff) but since it isn't imminent it hasn't been kept current because I'm happy using the JuicedLink pre), there are a couple old threads I saved:

About line level inputs (Jan 2013 so before the new models)
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-things-audio/513386-does-tascam-dr-40-have-line-level-input.html#post1772675

Tascam DR 05 or the Zoom H2N? (Dec 2012 so before the new models)
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-things-audio/512710-tascam-dr-05-zoom-h2n.html

As for deal breakers - the locking XLR issue would be high on my list, and especially in pro use where there are (should be) no excuses. If you have to be watching the vu meters constantly to make sure there is signal coming in then this is a real distraction.

It would be nice to have a "wikipedia" type of section here for equipment specs, review comments, and with pros & cons.

And one more thing .....
There was a thread by Danny Winn who wanted to buy a LED Spot light and he said his budget was $300. In the last post he wrote (as I'm writing this) he was very happy with the one that was suggested. Oh, and the retail was about $1,500.
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/photon-management/521587-need-help-led-spot-suggestions.html

So, big question, how did we do here? (AT899 & recorder)?

After this, what else is on the To-Buy list???

I know audio gear isn't always the sexiest choice but it is very necessary. The Rode video mic is a very popular choice for DSLR work but keep in mind it is just filling a void in the camera. It is meant to act as the mic that damn near every handheld camera already has built into it. There is a whole industry based on filling the voids that are left when using a DSLR because at the end of the day, they are just stills cameras. Syncing your audio is not overly difficult. Just give yourself a good sync point to line everything up with. That is as simple as turning all of your gear on then standing in front of your camera and clapping your hands.
I know there is a wealth of information to be had on this site but go check your local bookstore and see if they carry any industry magazines. Those are a great way stay up on trends and gear. At my local Barnes and Noble they are spaced out among two different sections in the magazines. Some are in the Art section while others are in with the Movies.
As far as being worried about your mic reaching your talent? Welcome to the world of corporate video. I'd go buy a couple hundred feet of XLR cable to go along with whatever you choose to use. And yes, XLR's are the industry standard as far as mic cables go....which was really confusing when BlackMagic put out there camera and it had 1/4" inputs on it.

Haha I love you guys…

Yea I'm still looking at getting the H4n (ebay seems to have some good prices, but I'm trying to be careful on purchasing this stuff for a discount cause you never know).

Next on my list? Ummm…

Headphones (good advice on how in ear headphones can benefit over the bigger headphones in certain situations. Good stuff there)
A Slider
A wide angle lens
I'd really love to get a steadicam (Since everyone is a photographer these days, I'd like to try to crack into the market of selling videos to those people to try to stand out from the crowd. I've seen a few videos of photographers and steadicams seem to a pretty good way to make a "quick" and "easy" video for them)
I'd like to get the 50mm 1.4 but my 1.8 is ok for me at the moment. Can't justify the money at the moment.
Then I guess I need to upgrade to a new camera. I was considering the 60D, but it was suggested that I wait and save up to get the 5D Mark III

Any advice on those would be much appreciated.


Mark - You're right. Audio is not a sexy choice at all. That's why I struggled at first wanting tp spend money on that. After hearing you all though, it makes me realize that you're right. Audio is 50% of the video and I need to think like that. It is a very sexy choice once you have the right mindset (I'm getting there).

John Nantz - So what do you suggest to me in regards to a recorder? Do you think the H4n is a good purchase? I was considering the Tascam that is about $70 cheaper on B&H. It also has XLR, but less bells and whistles (which I really don't need). I only plan to get ambient sound and record on a lav through the XLR. A B&H rep told me the H4n has better mics so the ambient sound would be better so that sold me on it. What do you think/suggest?

As far as another camera goes, after all of this you might want to check out the Sony FS100 and the Canon C100 rather than a Mark III. They both address a lot of these issues that you are having.

All good advice about equipment here, however if I were you I'd would consider opening a rental account somewhere and renting different gear and then deciding what you like and don't like.

Jonathan

Now that this thread has led to the decision to buy audio gear, it might make sense to start a new thread in the audio section. In that thread, I recommend three items in the first post:

1) Your application. Really think through your use cases and detail your goals. The best equipment for one use case can be terrible for another, so this section is really important. Making it clear that you're not making feature films is important because the next point is...

2) Your budget. You can expect some to say you need to spend thousands on a full kit of top of the line gear, but your budget and application don't warrant it.

3) Your current target gear (H4n, AT899, head/earphones). Some there might know of newly released/announced products as well as product tests, comparisons, and reviews.

Regarding the H4n vs. Tascam mics, I'm not sure how they compare. I haven't tested them. But we have both the H4n and DR100 mk I here at work. If I get time, I might make a very quick test. My test would be simple and wouldn't show small differences, but if either is poor, I might be able to see if there is a loser.

OK. I'll go make a thread over there now. Thanks

Here's a good spot with lots of information about audio for Canon DSLR cameras.

The Canon DSLR Audio thread (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?240822-The-Canon-DSLR-Audio-thread)

Next on my list? Ummm…

Headphones (good advice on how in ear headphones can benefit over the bigger headphones in certain situations. Good stuff there)
A Slider
A wide angle lens
I'd really love to get a steadicam (Since everyone is a photographer these days, I'd like to try to crack into the market of selling videos to those people to try to stand out from the crowd. I've seen a few videos of photographers and steadicams seem to a pretty good way to make a "quick" and "easy" video for them)
I'd like to get the 50mm 1.4 but my 1.8 is ok for me at the moment. Can't justify the money at the moment.
Then I guess I need to upgrade to a new camera. I was considering the 60D, but it was suggested that I wait and save up to get the 5D Mark III

Any advice on those would be much appreciated.
My advice will be not on what to get but, as a suggestion, how to keep track of what to get. What I'm going to write relates to the OSX system. This is the way I do it so it is just a suggestion:

In the Documents folder I've created two new folders: "Camcorder" and "Computer". All the camcorder stuff goes in that folder and all the video editing stuff goes in the Computer folder.

Under the Camcorder folder I've got a folder that's called "To-Buy List" and it is highlighted in yellow so it is easy to spot. In that folder there are some more sub-folders with titles of all the things that I hope to be in my future. One dedicated folder for each item and each one is also highlighted in yellow. Why Yellow? Highway caution signs are yellow, but you could use Disappearing Green if you want.

As I gather information about each item I save it in that folder. Normally there is a document for the little bits of info including URLs for company web sites, interesting threads on the item, maybe Owners Manual downloads, retailer and eBay sold price comparisons, product reviews, etc..

Mark - You're right. Audio is not a sexy choice at all. That's why I struggled at first wanting tp spend money on that. After hearing you all though, it makes me realize that you're right. Audio is 50% of the video and I need to think like that. It is a very sexy choice once you have the right mindset (I'm getting there).
In my case, the audio kit is worth several, nay, many times what my two cameras are worth. Sennheiser ME-64 & 66, (MKH416 or equal on the list), Røde SVM, AT899 lavalier, another old wireless lavalier (and another, probably Sennheiser ENG on my To-Buy list), Electro Voice ENG interview mic, Rycote softies for the 64, 66, and the SVM, including a Rycote Windshield and Windscreen for the ME-66, JuicedLink pre, K-TEK carbon fiber boom pole, assortment of cables, mic stands, and a few other things. The good thing is the audio gear holds it's value better than the camera.

Yesterday I just added a Light Panels fresnel light to the list but we'll see if it stays. It's just a list!

John Nantz - So what do you suggest to me in regards to a recorder? Do you think the H4n is a good purchase? I was considering the Tascam that is about $70 cheaper on B&H. It also has XLR, but less bells and whistles (which I really don't need). I only plan to get ambient sound and record on a lav through the XLR. A B&H rep told me the H4n has better mics so the ambient sound would be better so that sold me on it. What do you think/suggest?

I can't suggest anything because this has been a moving target. It was last summer when I first started delving into seriously getting a recorder but last fall we went to Europe for a few months so it got put on hold. When we returned there were some new models so I had to refresh my memory and basically start all over again. Since it was early December my plan was to come up with a suggestion for my wife of what to get but with the backlog of other "life issues" to take care off it didn't happen. After Christmass I upgraded my FCPX editing application (major update) and added Motion 5 (new application) so I've been learning about these things and there is a really huge backlog of video to edit. Consequently, recorder research is a really low priority right now.

However, there are some suggestions. One is that the forum here is a really valuable resource for information. When the new recorder models were recently introduced (time flies) there was a lot of discussion about their merits, pros and cons, here, and by people much more knowledgeable than myself. The Search function is your friend so I'm sure their posts can be found.

Another suggestion is there is a bit of a nuance between the Camcorder and the DSLR shooters so different feature sets might apply. For one, it was noted that one recorder is designed to be operated best in a horizontal position while another was designed to be used in a vertical position. This is just one example. I have read so many good comments about the details between different recorders that it is really hard to keep track of them. Wish I could help more but can't at the moment. Ultimately I'll probably do a spreadsheet on them, hopefully capturing all the important comments.

Brock,

I am a corporate videographer. I am going to chime in here and be very blunt, with no intention of being abrasive. I am not going to cover all the bases of what could become a debate. I am not trying to rekindle that debate. Others will disagree with me but many will not. I am going to state it as I know it. I am in a hurry. So I am going to spit it out. If the DSLR vs video camera debate ever mattered it does right now, to you. You are going down a road with good intentions but your lack of experience has you on the wrong path. What I am going to say applies to you to a great extent mostly because of your stated intent to do work in corporate video. Corporate video is a broad term. It is also a genre where the DSLR craze not only does not apply, it is not even acceptable for many of the shoots I work on. I go into the homes, businesses, and clinics of prominent physicians, and business leaders all over the country. Pulling a DSLR out of my bag would be considered unacceptable by my clients. No one needs to school me on their capabilities. I am very much aware of the incredible video they can produce in experienced hands. The bottom line is, they are a still camera, and in the corporate world you will be perceived as an amateur regardless of your ability. And that goes for all models. Perception matters in the corporate world. You are building a new kit. You have time to change before your kit keeps you from doing corporate work, as you stated that is your intent.

First, going the DSLR route means you are starting out with a camera that has virtually no audio capabilities. The on board recording is only useful as a sync track. Right now, it is clear you do not understand that. Learning to record off camera, quality audio is an advanced skill and full time specialty for many pros. You will also be spending extra money to overcome that limitation. You have a massive learning curve ahead of you, that is true regardless of camera type but DSLRS complicate it further.

Second, almost all corporate work is going to involve run and gun shooting at some point. You will be required to invest extra money in your rig to be able to do that because of its ergonomics.

Help me help you, what is your definition of corporate work? In my corporate world DSLRs are almost nonexistent. That is not just a perception thing. It is reality because they are not the right tool for the job! No one camera is going to allow anyone to do all tasks.

Again guys, I am not anti DSLR. I am not trying to rain on anyone’s parade. I am well aware of the fact that there are guys making a very good living and creating beautiful video with DSLR rigs. I admire Brock’s enthusiasm and ambition. I also believe as a rookie there is going to be much more to this than he envisions. Building a DSLR rig with the intention of breaking into corporate video is an egregious error. In my experience, I believe that to be a fact, not an opinion.

Brock, slow down, think about what you’re doing and go shoot video and audio. No matter what rig you build it will always be in your hands. There are many specialties that could lend themselves to earning a very good living with the rig you guys are talking about building. Corporate video is not one of them.

With Respect,

Steve

I'll give the counterpoint to Steven's post...

I shoot corporate video on a volunteer basis from within a corporation. And I mainly shoot with a DSLR. The main difference for me? I don't have to sell my services. I get to be the resident expert. :)

The stuff we shoot is very specific - interviews, tech demos, "imaginary scenarios" (narrative), and speaking events.

Interviews - DSLRs work great.

Tech demos - This is where camera motion is critical. This is often b-roll. DSLRs are okay.

Scenarios - Being like narrative, DSLRs work great.

Speaking events - We use a camcorder for the master and a DSLR with a long lens for the closer, tracking shots. Frankly, a couple of nice 2/3" cameras with long zooms would be better - and that's expected at big, public events, but the DSLR does okay, given the companion camcorder for long, master takes.

So "corporate" really depends on the scope. For big corporate events, Steven is spot on. When the approach is more like ENG (electronic news gathering), his post nails it. However, for smaller corporate work and seated interviews, a DSLR works fine - given the right equipment around it, such as a good audio setup.

And this is exactly why it's so important to define your exact application. Simply saying "corporate" could mean a sports-event type camera at the back of a huge convention center, or it could mean a two minute interview with the president of a small startup. Or a glossy ad. Before you can select the right tool for the job, one needs to define the job - and the expectations of the client.

Thanks for chiming in Jon,

This is getting down more into the details vice broad-brush.

For me, the difference between Camcorder and DSLR is a whole lot mental. Having spent years shooting with a Nikon 35mm camera I like the lens approximately in the middle of the camera and some camera body on each side to get a firm grip on. With todays DSLRs they just seem lopsided. I can't help it.

So, with regard to how you would do it here....
Speaking events - We use a camcorder for the master and a DSLR with a long lens for the closer, tracking shots. Frankly, a couple of nice 2/3" cameras with long zooms would be better - and that's expected at big, public events, but the DSLR does okay, given the companion camcorder for long, master takes.

For me, due to my, ...what, mental attitude?, ... given the two camera form factors I would reverse them and put the DSLR on the tripod as the main camera (lock the red button on, assuming it stays fixed in focus and position) because I would want the camcorder form factor to run around with as the B-cam.

The camcorder form factor just seems right, to me, for shooting video. Okay, so maybe I've got my barn doors on, but it's all about form factor which includes instant access to buttons and other settings. Video cameras have had a different form factor from still cameras probably for almost a hundred years.

On the other hand, I like glass, not a whole lot but maybe two or three lenses, and I'm not ready to sacrifice form factor for glass. Sometimes this old dog has a hard time learning new tricks.

A new(er) camera is on my To-Buy List, and has been for a while, but deciding on what to get is really difficult. The one I have is both limited and dated, and getting more so every day, but I'm familiar with it and I hate buying something then discovering a "gotcha" or "wish-I-woulda-known".

Nobody said life was easy.

Edit: I think I understand your reasoning for using the two the way you did, such as using the telephoto to help stay out of the field of view, but, but .... *sigh*, I just like the camcorder form factor.

Let me first apologize that my comment here is off topic.... but I just have to comment.

I've been following this post with great interest and every time this post pops up with new comments, I can't help but getting the song "Another Saturday Night" by Sam Cooke stuck in my head...

"Another Saturday night and I ain't got nobody
I got some money 'cause i just got paid
How I wish I had someone to talk to
I'm in an awful way"

OK, I'm glad I got that off my chest... as you were fellas :)

A new lens could be a smart purchase for me.

Good glass is never a bad investment. I personally would try to eliminate your kit lens. Either by buying an 11-16 and wait to round out the mid range, or save and buy an 18-35 and go for your wide angle later. The few corporate gigs I have done I have really needed that Wide angle (11-16) to help shoot conference rooms, large floor spaces/manufacturing, as well as being the go-to for steadicam moves.

However, seeing that you have a bunch of wireless mics, I personally would try to find a way to simultaneously record your wireless lavs and see how you can work that into your productions. Again, very hard to say what you "should" buy since we don't know what you are shooting.

Gentlemen,

I deleted what I said in this post because when I reread it myself I saw how it could be interpreted as condescending. That is never my intent here on this forum. I have strong opinions I stand by. There are however, times when I should choose my words more carefully. This may have been one of those times. You guys are doing a great job of helping out a new member and shooter. Next post I will try to be more informative than opinionated. Have fun Brock!

Kind Regards,

Steve

For me, due to my, ...what, mental attitude?, ... given the two camera form factors I would reverse them and put the DSLR on the tripod as the main camera (lock the red button on, assuming it stays fixed in focus and position) because I would want the camcorder form factor to run around with as the B-cam.

That would make sense - if the DSLR recorded for more that 12 minutes at a time.

Here's our setup:
* The camcorder is on a photo tripod, locked down. It sees the speaker at a lectern, part of the audience, and the PowerPoint slides on the projector screen. It records the audio from the lectern mic.
* The DSLR is tight on the speaker on a Vinten tripod. It pans to follow the speaker. When the PowerPoint slide becomes important, I pan the speaker to one side and the slide is keyed into the other side of the frame in post. I stop and start the recording within every 12 minutes when appropriate.
* The PowerPoint slides can also be inserted full frame when there are many details.

This edits together nicely. I use the wide with deep focus as an establishing and master shot. I use the slides full frame when they provide detail and as start and end title slides. I use the tight shot when the speaker is "performing". I use the tight + over the shoulder shot for the majority of the presentation. The shallow DOF works great to isolate the speaker from the background.

Given that we don't use shoulder/handheld shots, having the camcorder as the master makes a lot of sense.

So, how does it feel to use a DSLR in this application? Well, I wish it didn't stop every 12-14 minutes (4GB limit.) Aside from that, I set and forget the focus and the main job is to frame with the tripod, including strategic moves for fading in/out the over-the-shoulder slides.

If I were doing a live production (as you see at large events), I'd want a camera with genlock and HD-SDI out - and that's not a DSLR. For our offline production, the DLSR is just an image capture device, so it does the job well.

12 minutes .... that would really make a difference so I can see where you're coming from.

Last December I had a Christmas program shoot that lasted an hour and I also had to stop and start the main camera every so often but I had my wife helping to keep track of time so it didn't run past. Just had to pick a spot where that could be done. Also, had to run a B-cam at the same time. A wife can be a handy assistant.

From reading the shooting workflow it's apparent you have this down to a science!

There are things to be learned here (on this web site). After reading a post Taky Cheung just made about how to use the Comer light to increase it's spot capability I think I may have just adjusted my To-Buy list priorities. A Light Panels fresnel light was just added to the list ($1,500) and my thought was it would be fairly high up but thanks to Taky's idea I'm afraid it just dropped to a lower level.

Also, after reading how some are using creative ideas to use and place a small recorder, the wireless lavaliere on The List also took a beating in the priority department. All this will help to elevate the camcorder replacement item.

That would make sense - if the DSLR recorded for more that 12 minutes at a time.

Here's our setup:
* The camcorder is on a photo tripod, locked down. It sees the speaker at a lectern, part of the audience, and the PowerPoint slides on the projector screen. It records the audio from the lectern mic.
* The DSLR is tight on the speaker on a Vinten tripod. It pans to follow the speaker. When the PowerPoint slide becomes important, I pan the speaker to one side and the slide is keyed into the other side of the frame in post. I stop and start the recording within every 12 minutes when appropriate.
* The PowerPoint slides can also be inserted full frame when there are many details.

This edits together nicely. I use the wide with deep focus as an establishing and master shot. I use the slides full frame when they provide detail and as start and end title slides. I use the tight shot when the speaker is "performing". I use the tight + over the shoulder shot for the majority of the presentation. The shallow DOF works great to isolate the speaker from the background.

Given that we don't use shoulder/handheld shots, having the camcorder as the master makes a lot of sense.

So, how does it feel to use a DSLR in this application? Well, I wish it didn't stop every 12-14 minutes (4GB limit.) Aside from that, I set and forget the focus and the main job is to frame with the tripod, including strategic moves for fading in/out the over-the-shoulder slides.

If I were doing a live production (as you see at large events), I'd want a camera with genlock and HD-SDI out - and that's not a DSLR. For our offline production, the DLSR is just an image capture device, so it does the job well.

I haven't done a ton of corporate work but I'm glad to see you take the same approach as I do. I do 98% sports production and I just carry that over to other things. I use a "game" camera that captures the whole "play" of what is going on and is wider so you don't miss anything (hopefully) and then there is the "tight follow" for when you need to cut away and get in the action.

Steven, I did not find your post condescending. I was actually about to chime in with the same thing. I shoot both on DSLR's (Panasonic GH3/2), as well as a standard video camera (Sony NX5U). Different tools for different jobs. By and large, the Sony is my go-to corporate camera. It really depends on the gig, but if I need a safe camera with proper audio, ND filters, big zoom range with servo, long battery/dual card slots, etc. it's a no-brainer. Trying to juggle a DSLR with multiple accessories is a non starter. Also, a lot of time I'm shooting and sending the footage to the production company for editing. They don't want to have to sync audio, they want everything in one easy and quick file. Also, isn't there a time recording limit on the T3i? Even if there isn't, surely the battery won't go for very long. What if you're shooting a continuous 2 hour lecture? Stopping the camera to change cards and battery is unacceptable.

Thanks for your responses guys...

Steven, I appreciate your honesty. To be honest, agree with you. That said, you are most likely on a completely different level than me. As you know I'm just starting out (hence why you said for me not to go down the wrong road) but I think DSLR may be the way for me currently. I started using a DSLR to get photos of my church's events and it kinda just evolved into video. I still plan on doing photography but figured if I upgraded lenses for video, it would translate to the photography side as well. So being able to do photography and video from the same device will be nice

I don't plan on shooting live corporate events or anything like that. My current goal (1-2 years) is to get good enough and comfortable enough with my equipment to shoot short promos for small businesses in my area. Mostly would consist of interviews and b-roll. Nothing too crazy. Once I get good at that, maybe I can look into getting into some other things.

Per everyone's advice, I ended up getting the AT899 lav mic and the Tascam DR100MXii for my recorder

I ended up also getting the Konova K3 80cm slider. I have a shoot coming up that a slider could really be nice on and I think that one was the best for the money. Many of you may say I should have just gotten a better mic and recorder for the money I spent on it, but I couldn't help it. lol

I also got an 18% gray card and new 32 GB SD card for a very good price.

So for now awhile, my purchases are finished. I want to get good with this equipment and then maybe make my money back on a video or two. Hopefully then the wife will see the benefit and let me buy more! ha

Next to buy....a new wide angle lens