After my most recent video, I have been asked to do similar videos for different people. They asked me how much I charge and I have no idea what to say. I'm new to this so I don't want to give a huge number as I'm not that great yet, but I don't want to do it for nothing. Below is the most recent video I did. Any ideas on what to charge for something like this?

Pickin & Grinin' Auction House on Vimeo

Hi Brock.

I think you will find that rates are completely subject to the clientele and level of production value, and vary wildly by region.

Your region is probably pretty similar to mine in terms of market saturation (relatively low) and demand (relatively low). The combination makes for rates that are livable but not opulent.

Up here in northern Vermont, I'm doing work that is similar to yours. I charge what is here a pretty standard day-rate of $500, plus a rental surcharge for whatever equipment I'm using. My editing weekly is based off of that shooting day-rate. That's it.

I have found, however, that the more interesting local clients, non-corporate, balk at even those fairly low rates. That's OK, because I have the power to either walk away or negotiate a deal if the end-result will carry an intangible benefit for me.

Production studios up here get a lot more (more like $100/hour). But we're not production studios, are we?

Thanks for the response

I guess it just depends on the client.

I live in Charleston, WV and the city has a population about 50,000 with the surrounding area bumping it up to a little over 300,000. If you add in Huntington (an hour away) and Parkersburg (an hour away) it comes up to about 740,000. It's a decent base to work with, but not nearly what some of these big cities have (our state only has 1.8 million).

So what would you have charged for that video I posted? I drove an hour to Parkersburg to film it, used a tripod, 3 softboxes, recorder, lav mic, slider and camera.

Here's a link that keeps popping up in these sorts of conversations:

How to succeed as a creative long term: know your C.O.D.B. Vincent Laforet's Blog (http://blog.vincentlaforet.com/2013/08/01/how-to-succeed-as-a-creative-long-term-know-your-c-o-d-b/)

Until you know how much it costs you to do the work, then you won't really know how much you stand to earn in profit on any given job, or where you need to (for lack of a better term) "cut corners" and reduce expenses. It is exceptionally easy for a beginning contract worker to quote themselves into less-than-minimum-wage (or even less-than-profitable) work repeatedly without this knowledge.

My usual quote strategy is to figure out (from the above) an "ideal" pay rate (ie, one that affords me such luxuries as yearly camera and computer purchase budgets) and a "minimum" pay rate (ie, one that keeps the lights on and mortgage paid) and negotiate within those numbers.

Great link. Thanks for posting it.

Man, it just seems like if you want to make it comfortably in this business, you need to be able to be good enough to charge a decent amount and have people willing to pay that for your service. Actually kinda depressing reading that…

That said, that article is more so for fulltime videographers. I'm just doing it on the side so it's difficult for me to get prices out of that. Great link, it just doesn't apply to me right now

Find out how much your local mechanic charges per hour. Set your hourly rate 40% below that. Well, I don't know if that's how you do it, but that's how it works out for me.

So Rainer, are you saying that we should sell our cameras and buy a lift and wrenches? :)

"And for Best Auto Alignment, the Oscar goes to... Bob!"

That said, that article is more so for fulltime videographers. I'm just doing it on the side so it's difficult for me to get prices out of that. Great link, it just doesn't apply to me right now

Nope, it still applies, because it's still your time and your life. You could figure the costs from the perspective of your day job meeting all your various living and utility expenses, and instead work from the costs of your equipment plus whatever other charges specific to that work you incur, portioned out over a rough guesstimation of days you plan to work at this side job.

rough example: I get a $2500 camera gear package and $300 editing package and expect to drive an average ~150mi per day on these jobs using ~7.5gal @ ~$4/gal (I know WV can be high), or ~$30/d in gas. I only have inclination to work three days per month except in December and July when I won't work at this side job because of vacations & such, so that's 30 work days. I want to set aside $500/yr to upgrade equipment and deal with increased auto maintenance.

So total expenses = 2500+300+500+(30*30) = 4200
To break even over 30 jobs, I then need to charge 4200/30=$140/d .

That's to BREAK EVEN ON EXPENSES, not even make an hourly wage off the endeavor.

So let's say I want to target an exceptionally modest $25/hr for my time, then I'd need to tack on an extra ~$250 since I'll probably work that much per day with driving included... that takes me up to ~$390/day. Oh, and $10 for a meal... $400/day. May as well hike it up to $500 so I can pay the IRS, because, believe me, they'll ask for it.

So yes, I didn't have all those mortgage, insurance, and office expenses to figure in, but I also didn't have the extra time over which to spread the meager costs my side business needs to operate... so my rate is still fairly in line with what a full-time guy might charge.

And if I didn't wind up incurring all those expenses? Well, there's nothing wrong with making a little extra profit. Why do you think I've been heating homemade burritos on my engine manifold this year?

See? I told you it comes out to a $500 day-rate.
; )

Haha Thanks!

That makes sense seeing it spelled out that way. Thanks for explaining it a bit further.

Yea you were right Finn lol. So how much do you charge for equipment fees and how do you do that? They tell you what they want and if you think it requires a certain piece of equipment, you add that fee in?

Exactly. I ran the numbers once and it seems like the rule of thumb for rental houses is to charge about 1/30 of the cost-basis per day for whatever it is. So, since I'm handling my own equipment and not worried about it breaking quite so often, I charge about 1/60. For example, I sometimes shoot with an F-3, which has an MSRP of roughly $10k. So daily rental would be $167. But I paid a lot less than that to buy it used, so I knock that down to $150 and throw in my basic peripherals (3-point tungsten, lenses, etc) for free (not that they are free for me to repair and maintain, that is).

Compared to a rental house it's a screaming deal, and you have to look at it that way, because your clients aren't offering to let you bash their equipment around, are they? Plus, it gets you in the habit of considering these things and forwarding the costs, so that you don't get stuck out of pocket when you do have to straight-up rent something that you don't own for a particular job.

Brock, first off I want to say you did a fantastic job on your first video. Your client should be real happy.

As far as pricing yourself that's something you have to figure out on your own. But just because you're not full-time doesn't mean you have to charge less. I've been doing video as my only income for 20 years.

I used the time when I still had a job to establish myself. That's when it's easy to price your self accordingly and ease your way into the business while you still have another income. It becomes harder after you no longer have another income. So this is the time to establish yourself with your regular clients. It's hard to low ball today and then go back to the same clients and say I want "Big Boy" money all of a sudden.

As far as the $500 per day that may or may not be right for you. My rate is $750 a day as a shooter with my camera, basic light kit 1 lav and 1 hand held. everything else is line item.

There are times I get creative to get my $750. Sometimes I will charge $750 and throw in 2 hours of editing. I get my day rate and it adds value for the client. And usually on these corporate gigs I will get another 4 to 10 hours of edit hours. My edit rate is $125 per hour.

Once you figure out what your rate is your biggest job is maintaining relationships. I have clients that I shoot for repeatedly several times a year. If your relationship is solid with your client you don't have to worry about losing the job to someone who may be better. You become the go to guy.

OK so just for reference, how do you predict how long it's gonna take to do a job? Say someone wants to come have you make a short 3 minute video of their business or organization. They want to be interviewed and you plan on driving there in the morning and starting. Do you just predict how many hours you'll be there and then quote them on it? If you go over those hours, is it on you? What about editing time? I feel like that is so unpredictable. Then you add on top of that the equipment fees? So do you charge for just the "extra" equipment and not the essentials?

Al,
It sounds like you and I went to the same school. Pretty much the same rates with the same idea of throw in some edit to keep the rate...in this business it's a dance and of course knowing the market and how to make $10,000.00 sound like $100.00. ;-)

OK so just for reference, how do you predict how long it's gonna take to do a job?

Experience. Seriously, it's the only way. Keep a time-log of your editing projects as though you were accountable to your boss for your hours, and you'll find out pretty quick. But on your first few jobs, you just have to guess.

Don't worry about it. Set a minimum time, e.g four hours, and hourly rates beyond that. Even with a three minute video half your day is gone. Gives you a basis to negotiate lower costs on trivial projects. Include your own equipment in the hourly rate and pass on additional costs.

One thing you want to look out for is the so called "half day" rate. Honestly there is no such thing as a half day.
The half day rate is supposedly predicated on you being able to work another job in that other half of the day.

As well some clients will think since you charge say $750 for a full day that a half day should be $375. Not so.
We charge $500 for the half day.

But I do my dammdest not to book half days at all. They never pan out.

I do a lot of interview type work and while the interviews might take 3 hours, travel setup and strike adds up to more than a half day. And the likelihood of me getting another job that day are slim.

Keep in mind that going over is sometimes your fault and sometimes the fault of the client.

If you forgot something that put you behind schedule, that's on you. Eat the cost. And make them aware that you've gladly eaten the cost as this helps buy loyalty.

If the client changed something ("Rather than filming in the office, I figured that we'd film on the North Pole!), then the overage is on them. This is where bidding hourly rather than by the job really helps. Some clients make constant changes and are never done polishing the apple. Don't do the job that never ends without charging for it.

"How much to charge" is a never ending debate with lots of variables.

That said...here's some additional advice when answering that question.

Good, fast, cheap. You can NEVER have all three.

This is a business truth.

It can be good and fast...but it won't be cheap.

It can be cheap and good...but it won't be fast.

It can be fast and cheap...but it won't be good (perfect).

Sometimes I'm in the mood for a little extra pocket change, thinking "I'm not doing anything, something is better than nothing"...and I'll do a half day for a client who has a limited budget. But that is very rare and only applies to a gig normally involving charitable work.

Here in Miami, Florida...the base pay for an experienced freelance editor with their own edit system is fifty bucks an hour.

That's for a client who walks in with material that's already been shot and they have a script for you to edit to. Anything beyond that means an additional amount for "producing".

Shooting rate, as mentioned above, can vary wildly.

Basic labor rate in Miami for an experienced photog using someone else's gear to shoot is usually $350 to $400 for a 10 hour day. Cost for someone with their own gear is extra on top of that depending on the amount and quality of camera gear being used. If you've invested more in camera and support gear you should get extra for that investment compared to someone who shows up with just a camera and tripod.

Where you live and work affects these basic numbers, and ultimately, comes down to your personal situation and future goals.

Is this a hobby or a true career path you're on?

Answer that question, then add up your expenses to get an idea of what "goal number" you need to make a month to keep a roof over your head and pay your bills. Oh yes...also a little extra for future equipment maintenance and purchases as well!

Just my two cents... ;)

MONEY…. Rule number one: Never talk about it! That not only includes friends and family it means especially friends and family. Once you start casually mentioning day rates and gross project numbers to other people they will only hear “BIG NUMBERS”. People that are not self employed have no concept of the net income a full time sole proprietor nets on an annual basis. So unless your ego thinks it is cool for people to perceive you as making a ton of money don’t talk about it. The ONLY people I discuss fees with is clients, period.

Take the first video you just did, I think it was your uncle? This is what I would do in that case. It does not matter how much you charged him. I would have made an agreement with him in advance not to tell anyone an actual number, that is between you and him, as it should be. You should advise him to tell everyone that you DID charge him. When someone asks him about the video his reply should be something like this “The kid was amazing, I got a bit of a family discount but I still paid him a reasonable fee. It was worth every penny of it. The video blew me away and has brought in new customers.” That is it, never any numbers. He is family, so mentioning the discount they suspect he got is ok, in that case. Assuming he did pay you something that answer is honest and fair. Money is a personal matter, even in business.

I rarely discount my fees, and I am substantially higher than what has been mentioned here so far, that is all I will say. If people hear you give discounts they will expect it too or be pissed if they don’t get it. It is human nature. And people get weird when it comes to money.

The video production business is a business about far more than just the video. I have many clients that I call refugees. They came to me and stay because they like doing business with me. They are refugees because their previous experience with video guys was bad. In short, I have reaped the benefits of low bidders and bottom level producers of bad video. It is also a common mistake of new guys to think that the lowest bidder will always get the job. There are, low price only, clients out there but I do not work in that arena. You don’t have to either, it is a myth. How much you charge will end up dependent on your business skills more than your creative skills.

Here is a tip. Be very careful with the hourly rate model. I don't use it at all anymore (some rare exceptions), for a lot of reasons. Just one of them is it makes people mad and they move on to guys like me because they think the hourly guy nickel and dimed them to death and was charging more than he was worth anyway. Sometimes it is justified and sometimes it is not, but they still left him! If you want to get paid for every hour you work then sell your camera and go punch a time clock. This is not a time clock business!

Steve

Steve brings up an excellent point.

One I also follow. I ask all clients to NOT share what I have charged them to do a job.

As Steve mentions...that is between myself and the client, and not a rate for everyone. It also infers to that client they have received a good price from you.

In addition, another basic reality...no matter what number you quote for a job...every client tries to get it even cheaper no matter how low you go at the beginning. Don't fool yourself into thinking there's some magic number which every client simply smiles and says "yes" to. That number does not exist!

Always be ready to say "no thank you" if a client does not want to pay what you honestly feel the work is worth. Bottom feeders are always around and not worth dealing with. They want cheap, then want more for nothing extra. Save yourself the headache and learn to walk away when appropriate.

Thanks guys. Appreciate the help! This at least gives me an idea of how to go about getting prices. Good stuff

Hey Brock

That is a really slick video and certainly worth a rate of $500 a day! Probably it also depends on how the client perceives your production (or more importantly how you make him perceive it) so it looks like good value to him.

An uninformed client would look at your less than 3 minute video and think .. This guy is crazy .. 3 minutes of video for say, $1000 works out to over $300 a minute. But marketed right so they see it as exposure to maybe 100,00 clients over it's lifetime and they are paying mere pennies per potential new client so your rate is just a drop in the ocean.

Chris

One thing you want to look out for is the so called "half day" rate. Honestly there is no such thing as a half day.

Truth... but while I don't advertise a half day rate, if a client says "we need this interview and b-roll package shot 2-3 hours, and our budget is $xxx," and $xxx is reasonable but well below my day rate, I'll invoice it as a half day just so if, in the future, the same client comes back with an actual full-day gig, I can go back to quoting my full day rate without question.

Just have to be consistent, yet inventive sometimes if it's the difference between working or not working (especially in smaller markets like mine)

when you don't know or feel embarrassed then charge by the hour . It works all the time when it comes to put down the number to the Client. If you pay taxes or rent the equipment then the rates are written in the books, otherwise charge by the hour and don't be too greedy. The Clients will be satisfied comparing to the rate by the hour of any other service they buy.

Brock, I thought your video was great. I'm a beginner and haven't bought any equipment yet. Would you tell me what equipment you used to shoot your video?

Hey Peter. I'm way late on this but for anyone reading this later, I can let you know what I shot this with.

T3i
50mm 1.8
Konova Slider
Tripod (not sure the brand)
Recorder (can't remember the brand but it wasn't a zoom)
lav mic

I've since upgraded most of my gear, so I'd like to go back and re-shoot this video to see what I could do with it now, but it didn't have a lot of money in gear for that particular video.

Brock, what did you upgrade to? And how is business going? :-)

Brock, what did you upgrade to? And how is business going? :-)

Hey David, thanks for asking.

It's actually really funny how far I have come in the last year and a half. I started filming my first video in January of 2014 (I remember coming on here and asking for advice about the simplest things) and just three months ago I got hired by a local university to be their videographer/photographer! I'm really enjoying doing this work full-time. It has slowed my business down a good bit as I'm more focused on the university, but I'm really loving it.

My father in law is a pastor of a nice church here in the area as well and he asked if I would take over producing the churches TV show twice a week so I have started that as well.

At the beginning of the year I ended up getting the 6D (more for photography reasons), canon 70-200 2.8 IS ii, canon 100 2.8 IS and the Sigma 35 1.4 (which is my favorite of the bunch).

For work I had them get me a GH4 with the 12-35 2.8 and the 35-100 2.8. I am loving the GH4 as a video camera. Quality is fantastic.

Anyway, thanks for asking. Things are going very well for me!

Great thread. We've all had similar experiences.

The early posts quoting $500 a day fit my position in the market. I charge £400 a day for shooting and editing but don't charge for providing my own equipment.

I don't agree with the idea of undercutting the local auto mechanic as a benchmark, though. There must be better service providers to compare ourselves to...