View Full Version : Video Camera Stabilizers, quick question.


Anthony McErlean
April 22nd, 2015, 04:01 AM
After looking through lots of posts about the different stabilizers, (I'm after one for a video camera) Blackbird, Merlin2, Glidecam HD2000 etc.
From what I read, some are easier to setup than others, what I want to ask is, when your finished using it for a particular shot and you set it down, put it in the back of the car to travel to another location or even fold it down and put it away until the next time its needed, does it have to be set up again from scratch?
I've read that some can take as long as 30min to setup.

Thanks in advance.

Kyle Root
April 22nd, 2015, 04:52 AM
I'm curious about this as well.

My "plan" at this point is to basically never take mine apart once I get it set up and balanced. I understand that fine tuning will always need to be done, and as noted elsewhere, I'll probably mark with a paint pen or something, the location of the shaft.

When I got my Glidecam HD2000, I also purchased the $89 light stand bracket that is claimed to help with balancing (so you don't have to hold it), and also serves as a place to dock it when not in use during a shoot. It seemed kind of pricey, but if it will help with those things, I'm all about making my life easier for a small price.

Also, I purchased a Manfrotto 577 QR system to attach to the Glidecam cheeseplate since all my stuff is based around that 501 plate. That is also supposed to make setup quicker and easier as well.

Finally, now that the D750 has dropped in price, I may just pick up a dedicated steadicam camera with another lens (wondering about a 16-35) because I'm not sure how well (?) the 24-120 will actually work at 24mm... if it will be wide enough.

Chris Harding
April 22nd, 2015, 05:25 AM
Hi Guys

I have a chinese rig with an arm and vest and when I'm done I just unclip the sled from the arm and the arm from the vest and I'm done ... maybe 30 seconds at most. My B-Cam has a QR plate that matches the sled upper plate so taking the camera off for other duties is also instant

Lenses?? My Sony cams are APSC so I use a 10-24 lens set at 10mm for 99% of the work. Remember you don't want to try and focus so at 10mm and the iris full open I still have a DOF from 2' to infinity so I set the focus ring to 2.5' and then just point and shoot. I wouldn't go any more than 10mm on APSC cameras and 15mm on Full Frame ... I think you will find focus issues with anything higher!

24mm even FF Kyle is going to mean you need a really good AF system ..zone focus just won't work!!

Chris

Anthony McErlean
April 22nd, 2015, 06:57 AM
Thanks Chris,
I'm probably old school :) but I was going to use a camcorder on a stabilizer compared to what I see most of you do now, with your A7s and so on. What's the advantage over an x900/X70/AC90 or whatever camera? is it to do with the weight od camera?
Had a look at the price of an A7s, its not cheap.

Please enlighten :)

Kyle Root
April 22nd, 2015, 07:31 AM
I'm going to play around. I can put the D750 into DX mode and shoot with my Tokina 11-16 as well.

Chris Harding
April 22nd, 2015, 07:39 AM
Hey Anthony

Not really ,, just use the cams you want to shoot with and then get a stedicam to suit them .. I have Sony EA-50's that clock it just under 2kg so my rig is a bit sturdier ... If you are going to shoot with a heavier camera then you need a vest!! Mine is made by Weildy in China ..amazing rigs for under $700!!!

Hi Kyle ... the Tokina will work great .. lock it at 11mm in DX mode and set the focus to between 2 and 3 feet and just go!! I had one before the Tamron .... and it's a great lens!!

Anthony McErlean
April 22nd, 2015, 08:23 AM
Thank you Chris, I see, I would prefer not to use a vest.
I would rather have a hand held stabilizer.
So, finding one then that would with a camera, that's another question :)

Thanks.

John Nantz
April 22nd, 2015, 11:52 AM
Another thought, depending on what one is shooting, (can’t have too much gear) …. is to pick up a second cam and put that on the stabilizer. One thing I shoot is musicians so my A-cam will be on a tripod and I picked up a smaller B-cam for use on the Glidecam. This makes for a nice combination because, for example, one can get some close-in shots of the fingering on the instrument that can be cut that in with the main cam’s timeline. Being on the Glidecam there can be movement with the B-cam that adds further interest. The musicians really like the closeups with the B-cam.

Ideally the B-cam should be matching the A-cam; however, the one I’m using is a smaller el-cheapo model of the same brand so, as luck turned out, grading hasn't been a real issue. Also, I picked it up used for a good price on a whim and glad that I did. It has really added some flexibility to the kit.

One more thought, with the B-cam one can use the built-in mic so there’s no dealing with mic cables. It’s unbelievably easy to drop and sync the B-clips into the timeline with FCPX using the audio track and X's sync function.

B-roll is so much fun. Besides, I'll say it again, one can’t have too much kit!!!

Jay Massengill
April 22nd, 2015, 12:57 PM
Last week I bought a ProAm Autopilot stabilizer and have been practicing but won't actually shoot a project until Friday. So far I'm very pleased with its construction, setup and use. Especially considering the price, and it had good reviews.

I chose the Giottos MH-652 quick release because it looked well suited to the task: low profile, 3/8-16 mounting bolt down through the stabilizer's top plate, the plates are less expensive, and the plates are narrow enough to not block the battery door on the T4i and T3i that I'll be using.

I wanted to use my Canon 17-55 IS f2.8, but quickly realized it is pretty heavy for any long-term use.

I've also tried my Canon 10-22 but it's also on the heavy side.

The only STM lenses I currently have are the 40mm and the 18-135mm. I'll try using the 40 for my closer more stationary views but we'll see on Friday how that goes!

I'm looking at some wider STM lenses, but the 10-18 being only f4.5-5.6 is disappointing. But I'm sure that will make it lighter to use on a stabilizer.

You definitely need a stand for balancing and docking, and even shooting from. I'm using a simple Calumet MF6030 that I had extra. It fits perfectly and doesn't bind when going on or off.

Anthony McErlean
April 22nd, 2015, 03:46 PM
Another thought, depending on what one is shooting, (can’t have too much gear) …. is to pick up a second cam and put that on the stabilizer. One thing I shoot is musicians so my A-cam will be on a tripod and I picked up a smaller B-cam for use on the Glidecam. This makes for a nice combination because, for example, one can get some close-in shots of the fingering on the instrument that can be cut that in with the main cam’s timeline. Being on the Glidecam there can be movement with the B-cam that adds further interest. The musicians really like the closeups with the B-cam.


Thanks for that John, maybe I should have said but its my B camera I was wanting a stabilizer for.
I have a Panasonic TM900 and a X900 and would use one of these cameras. I hope to buy something to add to my Pannys at some stage, like an X70.

My work flow John, would be along the same lines as yours
A cam on the subject and a B cam, or two, picking up anything else I could used for inserts. (using Edius 7.5)

Can't decide on the Blackbird, Marlin2 or Glidecam HD2000 :)

Anthony McErlean
April 22nd, 2015, 03:49 PM
Thanks Jay.

Anthony McErlean
April 23rd, 2015, 05:16 PM
what I want to ask is, when your finished using it for a particular shot and you set it down, put it in the back of the car to travel to another location or even fold it down and put it away until the next time its needed, does it have to be set up again from scratch?
I've read that some can take as long as 30min to setup.
.

Just wondering do you have to set it up from scratch again?

John Nantz
April 23rd, 2015, 07:36 PM
Just wondering do you have to set it up from scratch again?

Speaking for the Glidecam 2000, so long as the mass location of anything that is mounted doesn't move and nothing else changes (f.e., weights, length of the vertical rod, quick release plate location, etc.), it should fly the same as the previous time.

Change the battery size, add a lens filter, etc., and the mass will change.

Can't speak for any other system because it may be different but my guess the same reasoning will apply.

If the ME-66 is on the fly cam and, say, it moves forward or aft in the shock mount, in theory this will change the mass location. However, maybe a few millimeters one way or the other may not be enough to affect flyability.

If the B-cam is used with just the internal mic for syncing, though, that'd be the best scenario because there's nothing to move, and, it is keeping the mass low and closer to the swivel handle. With the shock mount and the mic on the top of the cam it will increase the height of the mass and I don't know for sure, but I think it would be slightly more difficult to balance.

If the B-cam is in fact the main cam and the mic is needed then so be it, but it's easier without the added mic cable to worry about. The Røde stereo video mic is nice because it has a smaller cable and a mini plug (cable is light and short).

Kyle Root
April 23rd, 2015, 09:28 PM
My Glidecam HD 2000 arrived today!

I got it assembled, set up and balanced in about 60 minutes.

The little $89 attachment that attaches to a light stand was super helpful in my opinion in getting everything balanced because I didn't have to hold anything.

If you're on instagram, you can look me up (kylerootproductions) and see the BTS shot I just posted. I'd post here, but too much trouble and I'm tired.

I decided to do the Tokina 11-16 on the D750. Works like a champ!

I'm going to bed now, but plan to get up at 6:00 AM and practice before the rest of the family gets up!

Anthony McErlean
April 23rd, 2015, 10:13 PM
Thank you so much John, for all that detail, it is very helpful.
I can understand how it might work now.
It's for my b-camera, tm900, by the sound of things if it's setup and I just need to take the camera off for whatever reason it won't take long to get it up and going again.
Thank you.

Kyle ;) no problem, yes, I have instagram, so I"ll get that sorted later too.
Talk later then,
Thank you.

Kyle Root
April 24th, 2015, 05:12 AM
I've been up flying it around the house this morning already. Couldn't sleep well because I wanted to try it out. It's working fantastic!

Earlier last night, I found this video (among others) showing his holding technique... I tried it, and I like it - as opposed to holding it below the gimbal on the mid shaft section.

Glidecam Tutorial 04 - How to operate a Glidecam - YouTube

I left the rig on the lightstand last night, but did take my camera off. It took about 30 seconds to rebalance. The D750 has a built in level so it's easy to tell when it's balanced in all directions.

I'm using only 2 weights total, wings extended max, and shaft extended about 3/4 of the way.

Anthony McErlean
April 24th, 2015, 06:52 AM
Thanks Kyle, thanks for the link.
Glad to hear your very happy with your Glidecam HD2000

It might be the one I need.

Just wondering, if I was to buy a PXW-X70 at some stage, would the Glidecam HD2000 still be suitable?

Thanks in advance.

Jay Massengill
April 24th, 2015, 08:05 PM
I shot 36 total takes with the ProAm Autopilot stabilizer this afternoon with my T4i and 18-55 IS lens for a simple music video. The stabilizer worked perfectly, all shots at 18mm. So I know it's working well since that isn't that wide and I saw nothing when reviewing the footage that was even noticeable as instability.

I'm using one plate each on the front and back of the base, with the tube extended exactly one inch.

The only things I had to do after taking the stabilizer out of the bag was extend the tube, mount the camera on the quick release, and then shift my secret weapon for balance a quarter inch from where it moved while in transport.

My secret weapon: MOUSE BALLS!! As in from an old computer mouse. The very heavy kind with a steel ball inside a soft rubber coating.

Using a small but powerful disc magnet from KJ Magnetics attached to one of the steel weight plates, I can make tiny location changes to the mouse ball and the magnet and achieve perfect balance.
The magnet is powerful enough and the rubber skin of the ball is soft enough that it won't move unless it's moved on purpose

In order to create some BTS footage that will actually be cut into the video for a few seconds, I backed through the wide shot from the tripod-mounted T3i / 10-22mm as the dancers followed me. Then I curved around and back through the dancers as they arrived at their places.
The stabilizer footage, and watching the stabilizer itself in the BTS shot was totally solid. And I wasn't even guiding the column, just holding the handle with one hand.

Kyle Root
April 24th, 2015, 08:36 PM
I was able to actually shoot some footage this evening after dinner for the first time.

I've got 5 days to practice before the promo shoot where I want to try and use this thing.

I was reading some site today where a guy was making the claim that instead of the 2-second drop test, balance it out to either (1) and 8 second drop time or (2) a static balance where it doesn't drop at all, for the most steady shots. I thought that was interesting.

I did up the weight on mine to 4 total plates (2 in front, and 2 in back) and also shortened the center column so that it's about 2" out from the main shaft.

The last couple of clips have this new configuration and it is smoother I think.

Glidecam HD2000 Test Footage Compilation on Vimeo

Jay Massengill
April 24th, 2015, 08:49 PM
Hey Kyle, looks good. Was all that at 11mm? And did the cat survive? Hehe!

Kyle Root
April 25th, 2015, 12:04 PM
Thanks! Yes all at 11mm.

That crazy cat. I didn't know he was down there on my first time around that corner. I almost kicked him.

More practicing outside today before thunderstorms move in. It was actually dropping a little rain last night when I was shooting some of those shots outside.

Anthony McErlean
April 25th, 2015, 12:54 PM
Hi Kyle, those results looked very good to me and you have just received the Glidecam, so you can only improve.
Thanks for the tips and link.

Hey Kyle, looks good. Was all that at 11mm? And did the cat survive? Hehe!

Stupid question, what do you mean by 11mm?

Kyle Root
April 25th, 2015, 04:09 PM
I was using a Tokina 11-16 F2.8 on the D750.

All those were shot at 11mm.

I did up it to 13mm to kind of try and minimize some of the wacky edge distortion look and will be trying that later. I've been a bit lazy today. Actually just woke up from an afternoon nap. lol

Anthony McErlean
April 25th, 2015, 04:57 PM
:) I see, thanks

Mark Koha
April 26th, 2015, 08:44 AM
Anthony, if you are looking at a Glidecam, then I would imagine you could get away with using a 1000 instead of the 2000 for the x70. As far as how long it takes to set up after the first time, it depends on how far you need to break it down to store. I would definitely get a quick release plate for the top, that will help with keeping things near where you left them. Beyond that, you should know how many weights and where you need to put them on the bottom. If you are only using one camera with it then the weights can just stay on. You can then mark the length of the pole with a sharpie so you know about where it needs to go. I have a 2000 and I fly a combination of a t3i and an xf305 on it. The t3i takes very few weights, the 305 takes every last one of them. I can't imagine you would need a vest for the set up you are going for, you should be just fine going hand held. And once you get it balanced the first time, every time after that should take 10 minutes at the very most.

Anthony McErlean
April 26th, 2015, 10:35 AM
Thank you Mark, I appreciate you help and advice.
All that makes sense to me.
I have a quick release plate so that would leave it the bit handier then.
Yes, I would be using just the one camera on it.
If I was buying a camera in the future, it might be something along the lines of the x70.

Thanks.

Anthony McErlean
May 19th, 2015, 09:52 AM
So, I got myself an RX10 to record a few extra clips at my weddings.
I'm trying to learn to go manual, other than the focus, I've this set at auto.

If I had the RX10 on a Glidecam or whatever stabilizer, do you use your DSLR on full auto when moving around recording?

Kyle Root
May 21st, 2015, 12:42 PM
I have my camera set to Manual with my Aperture and Shutter Speed Set.

Depending on the situation, I'll either set it for AutoISO or regular manual ISO.

Focus is single point, non-continuous for me.

Anthony McErlean
May 21st, 2015, 12:49 PM
I have my camera set to Manual with my Aperture and Shutter Speed Set.

Depending on the situation, I'll either set it for AutoISO or regular manual ISO.

Focus is single point, non-continuous for me.


Thanks Kyle, so, do you use a monitor while your recording?
How do you know if you over or under exposed?

Thank you.

Kyle Root
May 22nd, 2015, 01:03 PM
I don't use a monitor. Most of the time, I don't seem to be moving in areas where I'm having vast exposure differences. I let auto ISO adjust when it's on as necessary and it seems to be pretty smart.

Anthony McErlean
May 22nd, 2015, 01:10 PM
OK, thank you again.
Just wondered how a camera copes using the stabilizer.

Thanks Kyle.

Chris Harding
May 23rd, 2015, 12:48 AM
I have always used my rig with the camera on full auto so I let it sort out the exposure but the lens is on manual ... I use a Tamron 10-24 set at 10mm so it has a huge DOF and then preset the focus to between 2' and 3' and then go!! As long as I stay at least 2' away from the couple everything will be in focus even at F3.5!!

A sled has a delicate balance so you cannot try and keep it level with one hand and adjust with the other ...you have to make the camera into a point and shoot machine and then concentrate on your camera moves!!

Anthony McErlean
May 23rd, 2015, 01:38 AM
I have always used my rig with the camera on full auto so I let it sort out the exposure but the lens is on manual ... I use a Tamron 10-24 set at 10mm so it has a huge DOF and then preset the focus to between 2' and 3' and then go!! As long as I stay at least 2' away from the couple everything will be in focus even at F3.5!!

A sled has a delicate balance so you cannot try and keep it level with one hand and adjust with the other ...you have to make the camera into a point and shoot machine and then concentrate on your camera moves!!

Thank you Chris for your advice, that sounds like a good idea as well.

Thanks.

Charles Papert
May 24th, 2015, 04:53 PM
Earlier last night, I found this video (among others) showing his holding technique... I tried it, and I like it - as opposed to holding it below the gimbal on the mid shaft section.

As always, it is what works for you. However I suggest you look at BTS footage of working Steadicam operators, or demos/interviews with the Steadicam folk at NAB etc. and you will see that very few if any have fingers above the gimbal. Perhaps they know something that the gentleman in that video doesn't know.

One of the problems with that technique is the possibility of your palm touching the pan gimbal which will hinder stability.

If you were balanced with an infinite drop time, there is a certain logic to controlling from above and below the gimbal because that is where the center of gravity is positioned. However, with a classic drop time of 2 or so seconds, the center of gravity will move under the gimbal and that is where it makes sense to operate the post.

Certainly you don't want to grab onto the post with a death grip no matter where you place our hand, and way down the post doesn't make sense either. Note that you may see what appears to be a death grip (fingers wrapped all around the post vs fingertips) being used by pro operators, but that is actually misleading because they are still using their fingertips, just positioned differently on the post. In all circumstances but heavy wind, the lightest touch is always the best.

Chris Harding
May 24th, 2015, 06:24 PM
Anthony??

Please take note that Charles is what I consider a "master guru" of stedicam ... a very highly experienced professional operator so anything he says is well worth considering.

Personally I have always been in the habit of having a light finger touch under the gimbal where the C of G is .... if you look at what Charles calls the death grip then more than likely the balance is way out on the sled!! A lot of the time you shouldn't even need fingers on the post unless you are doing a deliberate tilt

Chris

Anthony McErlean
May 25th, 2015, 03:38 AM
As always, it is what works for you. However I suggest you look at BTS footage of working Steadicam operators, ...Certainly you don't want to grab onto the post with a death grip ... the lightest touch is always the best.

Thank you Charles for your valued advice, much appreciated.

Anthony McErlean
May 25th, 2015, 03:50 AM
Anthony??

Please take note that Charles is what I consider a "master guru" of stedicam ... a very highly experienced professional operator so anything he says is well worth considering.


I will indeed take note Chris, especially when Charles is consider a "master guru" of stedicam




Personally I have always been in the habit of having a light finger touch under the gimbal where the C of G is ....A lot of the time you shouldn't even need fingers on the post unless you are doing a deliberate tilt

Chris

and thank you too Chris for your advice.

As I've said before, this is a great forum :)

Charles Papert
May 25th, 2015, 04:12 AM
I am actually 5 yrs "retired" from Steadicam operating but I think physics haven't changed much since!

Chris--a little nervous by the suggestion that you don't always need fingers on the post. It might inspire novices to allow the guide hand to drop by their side etc. (I've seen footage of people doing exactly that). As you know, it's an extraordinarily subtle balance between applying anywhere from a microscopic amount of touch (when the rig is aimed in one direction and needs little to no tilt) to quite a bit more (whip pans, tilts) but rarely if ever CONTINUOUS touch, as that will induce an over-controlled appearance to the footage. I used to compare it to ABS brakes, which apply an alternating cycle of clamp/release/clamp/release in a very short amount of time.

That said--I've seen confounding BTS footage of people wielding handheld Glidecams with either a brute force grip or one shockingly low on the post, or both, resulting in footage that looks remarkably good (Devin Graham aka devinsupertramp comes to mind). Perhaps I'm being naive to think that post stabilization isn't part of the equation.

Chris Harding
May 25th, 2015, 04:42 AM
Hi Charles

I worded that very badly ..what I meant to say is you don't need any sort of death grip on the post just a really light fingers touch .. Your fingers just need to touch the post lightly to maintain control ..which mine do all the time ... what I was crudely attempting to say was if your rig is balanced correctly you should be able to let the post go completely without any ill effects .. trying to reason why people use a death grip and it's usually because the sled is so badly out a wack that you have to grasp it to control it. My left hand is always on the post at all times but just touching enough to keep control.

Sorry I messed up my description !! but yes two hands are needed on a handheld sled without any doubt

Chris

Charles Papert
May 25th, 2015, 05:04 AM
As always I'd suggest anyone getting into a Steadicam-style stabilizer to buy the Steadicam Operator's Handbook (on Amazon, etc), It's largely written for "big rigs" but even if you are working with an inexpensive handheld rig, the essentials remain the same, and the exercises laid out are quite helpful.