Greetings:

I have spent the last week doing research in preparation of purchasing a cam. Yesterday I ordered a Panasonic ag-dvc30. So why am I posting here?

At the beginning, I was intent on getting a gl2. However, I wanted to get a feel for how gl2 users feel about their camera. I read a lot of positive remarks. But I also found a great number of extremely frustrated users who were having problems with their gl2's that could not be fixed, and were never going to buy another canon product. I've read many horror stories re: dealing with Canon customer non-service. I read a post given by a technician wherein he said that he loves gl2's because of the work/income they give him.

I felt that purchasing a gl2 would be a gamble in a very real sense. And that even if the camera worked fine there would always be a nagging worry in the back of my mind.

Gee, Jonathan--your first post on DV Info...interesting way to introduce yourself!

Greetings:

I read a post given by a technician wherein he said that he loves gl2's because of the work/income they give him.

You must have read that somewhere else.(?) I looked around here and this is all I found:

Canon has a policy I'm told, that prohibits employees from posting here in representation of the company. That doesn't mean they don't read this stuff though.;-) So you won't be reading Canon's 'take' on any issues posted to this forum.

=gb=


At any rate, congratulations on your purchase, and welcome to DV Info.
(That's a beautiful print for sale on your site, btw.)

Lorinda:

I didn't mean to offend anyone. If I have, then I do apologize.

I tried to be fair and balanced in reporting what I have found. Why did I post? 1) An aid to others, like me, who are doing research on which video cam to buy. 2) A message to Canon that they lost at least one sale because of the way posts claim they deal with customers who have defective products.

I realize that we are not hearing Canon's side of the story. However, having read account after account where customers have experienced the same thing - it tells me there's something to it.

Yes, your right. The technician that I reffered to did not post on this forum. I found his post elsewhere last week, and I don't believe that he was a Canon employee.

Again, I apologize if my post offends anyone. If someone posted a similar message on a forum dealing with a product that I was fond of, I would not appreciate it. I should have realized that there are probably many die-hard Canon fans here. If I could remove this and post it somewhere a little more neutral, I would.

Disgruntled users, or buyers, or players, or hobbits, or whatever, are always the most vocal. There are statistical methods of compensating for this trend.

If you look at the thread titles of the places where you found these negative comments, you would see that they are threads devoted to negative experiences (ie Remove Cassette fix, lost at service center, my GL2 ate my child in the night). If there were a thread called, "How much I love my GL2, you would have a buttload of positive experiences. What can I say. If Canon were getting half of the cams back because of the tape transport, there would be a recall and a lawsuit. I have never been able to figure out how many they do get back (though some on this board have endeavored to calculate) but I think it's probably on the order of less than 1%.

As for how many GL2s have eaten children, that is probably in the hundreds of thousands by now. It's a real problem that they need to addressed.

DJ

Jonathon,

No apology necessary—at least not on my account. I’m not a die-hard fan of any brand of camera. But I do have a tendency to be (maybe overly) protective of this board and the young man who started it all, so your post simply concerned me a bit.

Additionally, if you look around this site--away from the forum--you’ll notice a history with Canon that goes back quite a few years. Yeah, this place has grown up a lot since then, and there’s never been favoritism here, but history is history, and I’m grateful.

That’s not a very clear explanation, but you seem good at reading between the lines. Thanks for your subsequent thoughts, and I hope I didn’t scare you away! :)

I bought my XM2s for the glass, the zoom and the split audio adjustments PLUS the cost - period. I decided to buy them because I was not aware of the tape issue. I suspect I would still have gone ahead, as in the UK I have some really strong consumer rights backing up purchasing decisions.

My experience is that behind me here, in wooden IKEA drawers, I've some 300+ 60 min premium SONY tapes; ALL my equipment - and I mean ALL, including my NLE deck and other decks - have been paid for from using the XM2 and I now have something of a growing customer base. How come? Well .. back in Nov '02 I bought a lowly priced XM2 which aided my understanding of this "craft", at a time when I needed to make some crucial work/life changes. Couldn't have done it without it! My guess is I may not be alone.

Grazie

Agree, the people with questions and problems post, the people without questions or problems re oput shooting or editing.

What is missing is the actual numbers. How many of any camcorder have been sold, how much use are they getting. How hard is the use? How skilled is the user?

Factors difficult to assess by web posts.

Thank you Lorinda. No, you didn't scare me away, you were very kind. In fact, after thinking (finally) about where I posted, I'm pleasantly surprised that I haven't received a backlash. Seems like a nice group.

However, I probably won't be posting here much...after all my questions will be re: a panasonic. : )

Best regards,

I trust you are enjoying the Panasosnic forums here at dvinfo.net.

I bought my XM2s for the glass, the zoom and the split audio adjustments PLUS the cost - period. I decided to buy them because I was not aware of the tape issue. I suspect I would still have gone ahead, as in the UK I have some really strong consumer rights backing up purchasing decisions.

My experience is that behind me here, in wooden IKEA drawers, I've some 300+ 60 min premium SONY tapes; ALL my equipment - and I mean ALL, including my NLE deck and other decks - have been paid for from using the XM2 and I now have something of a growing customer base. How come? Well .. back in Nov '02 I bought a lowly priced XM2 which aided my understanding of this "craft", at a time when I needed to make some crucial work/life changes. Couldn't have done it without it! My guess is I may not be alone.

Grazie

Always good to read a success story like yours Graham. In reference to Jonathan's post, we should always remember that any manufacturing line can have a 'batch' of defective product get out the door before they discover the issue. Those units get spread out in shipments to different distributors and retailers and ultimately the end user. At this point, those who are unlucky enough to get one of those units will be scattered all over the place making the problem seem to be more of an issue than it actually is because the reports seem to come from everywhere.

Jonathan, you can rest assured that your Panasonic purchase will be just as welcome here as if you had bought a Canon. We have forums for your camera here and like Lorinda, I am a staunch defender of the sanctity of this forum and we keep it positive, and clean. That doesn't mean you can't post your negative experiences with a product. Just do so in a factual, non-ranting manner. We are all about 'accurate' information here.

regards,

-gb-

I trust you are enjoying the Panasosnic forums here at dvinfo.net.

Thanks, Don. I'm sure that I will, but haven't received it yet. It should come sometime this week.

In my neck of the woods, it's the other way around:

Canon customer service is best while Pana's rock bottom...unless things have changed overnight.

The GL2 is a good cam, but the pieces are designed kinda bad. The lenses let dirt and dust in very easily, misfocuses a lot, and has many missing features that should be on a 2200$ camcorder. Overall my new purchase with a Sony HDR-FX1 is much much better over the Canon.

First complaint I recall reading about poor lenses with a dirt/dust issue? Is this a common complaint? Or the result of use in a harsh environment?

Which features do you feel are missing?

A point readers should consider is that "features" are how products differentiate from each other, and are usually engineered in or out based on the intended market and price point for the product. It boils down to a missing feature that a shooter will not use is not a missing feature for that shooter, just an unnecessarty frill that would drives up the price if included.

First complaint I recall reading about poor lenses with a dirt/dust issue? Is this a common complaint? Or the result of use in a harsh environment?

Just saw a thread the other day on our forum with the title, "Ants in my GL2 lens". I guess there must be a security breach on that lens somewhere but I confess I'm not a GL2 owner.

-gb-

The nature of the optical image stabilizer prevents an air-tight lens. That's true, and there can be some dust, in some cases.

As for the ants, I read that post. That guy was in the tropics. Tropical ants will eat tires, and babies. I'm sure they ate the rubber seal around the microphone and ventured in. Kind of an extreme circumstance.

Which forum?

Disgruntled users, or buyers, or players, or hobbits, or whatever, are always the most vocal. There are statistical methods of compensating for this trend.

If you look at the thread titles of the places where you found these negative comments, you would see that they are threads devoted to negative experiences (ie Remove Cassette fix, lost at service center, my GL2 ate my child in the night). If there were a thread called, "How much I love my GL2, you would have a buttload of positive experiences. What can I say. If Canon were getting half of the cams back because of the tape transport, there would be a recall and a lawsuit. I have never been able to figure out how many they do get back (though some on this board have endeavored to calculate) but I think it's probably on the order of less than 1%.

As for how many GL2s have eaten children, that is probably in the hundreds of thousands by now. It's a real problem that they need to addressed.

DJ

I have a fleet of 5 GL2's. Three experienced the dreaded and mysterious shut-down issue over the course of the last three years. That's batting .600 in my book. Well above 1%. Two cameras have never had a problem with anything, and I use them with the same equipment so I guess I was just unlucky with the other three.

However, I've never had an experience with the 'Remove Cassette' issue. And, with given persistence, Canon did replace all of the cameras for me in time. But, two of the 5 cameras have a problem with the audio dropping out when the VL3 video light is turned on. Can't seem to fix that, so I bought battery powered Sony lights.

Other than some of those problems, I absolutely love the GL2's... looking forward to the GL3's as I'm sure Canon will address the shortcomings of the GL2 (when it comes to not operating properly) with the new line.

Well, i have to say i found a lot of bad info/ horror stories about the GL2 in much of my research after i bought mine. It did kinda give me a nagging feeling in the back of my mind about my camera which i first loved. I began to feel different when i looked at it as though at any moment something would just stop working and it would take months to fix. This would essentially ruin my 3 month trip starting this November because i would not have a camera to shoot with.

I think whenever you spend a great deal of money on something you get really concerned that something terrible will happen. For instance, one of my stops includes camping in Hawaii near the North Shore. Right now i am already so paranoid about everything i am bringing, including my camera, being stolen from my campsite. Hawaii has a bad rep for thieves, escpecially around the North Shore during Pipe Masters.

However after reading only negative posts and info on the GL2 i realized i had not even stopped to read posative notes. It was the same when it came to Hawaii. I actually was seeking out negatives on both issues and hyping them up. I started reading the good posative posts and experiences about both my GL2 and Hawaii. I also decided to remember the fact that i stayed at the same campsite once before and never had a problem (though i had no electronics that time i did have a surfboard).

So really i think it comes down to paranoia. being somewhat paranoid myself, I would say examine your own standards of camera care. If you take excelent care of your equipment, are organized, not clumsy or forgetful, not accedent prone, or anything else like that you will probably not have problems. Doing this made me realize that all the nagging feeling i was having were pointless.

Also for every bad review or incident read a good one. It really makes a difference.

I have owned a GL2 for 6 months, and I am happy with the results it has given me so far (I shoot fiction short movies). People have often commented on the quality of my images. At the time I made the decision, I also considered the DVX-100a, but the $1500 difference was too much, considering that this is mostly a hobby (obsession).

I thought the GL2 was kind of expensive too, but I had used a GL1 a few months before and had loved it. I didn't know about the "Remove the Cassette" issue at the time, and I don't know if it would have affected my decision.

6 months later, the "Remove the Cassette" problem has reared up its ugly head. Rarely at first, but more prevalent during a recent 10-day video-making event: I had to borrow another camcorder for capture, I had to buy a tape rewinder, and I lost hours on shoots whenever the GL2 decided to stop working.

I non longer love my GL2 as much as I did. It is currently taking a break at a Canon-licensed repair center, still under warranty. I already fear that even if they replace the tape transport or change the camera, the problem will reappear, as it has for many users. To put chance on my side, I might acquire a cheap (used?) camcorder for capture, and maybe, eventually, a tape-less recording device such as a Firestore.

It saddens me to admit it, but I wish I hadn't bought a GL2: I should have gone for the DVX-100a! I you consider the Beachtek I had to buy in order to support XLR connections (which the DVX has), and the camcorder I might have to get for capture, the price of the DVX isn't so bad after all. Last week, I had the opportunity to see the DVX-100a in action, and even use it myself shortly: the results blew me away! It made me realise some of the short-comings of the GL2 and justified the higher price of the DVX-100a in my mind. Next time I buy a camera, I will spend a little more time researching the issue...

If you take excelent care of your equipment, are organized, not clumsy or forgetful, not accedent prone, or anything else like that you will probably not have problems.

This post rubs me the wrong way. I take exceLLent care of my equipment, am orgainzed, not clumsy or forgetful, not accIdent prone or anything else of that nature. Strange, isn't it.

I would recommend not taking any type of expensive video equipment to the beach however... where there's tons of sand and salty, humid air. Not a good combo with electronics.

For Matt,

I'm sorry if my post offended you in any way. I only meant it in a positive light; to share with others how i was able to realize my own anxieties about my GL2 and squash them.

You are definatly right about the beach but since my passion, for now, is shooting surfing, I have to adapt myself and my gear to it. This is why my paranoia about keeping my equipment working and safe never ceases.

Mr Shannon,
I would love to hear about the DVX-100a when it arrives. I never did any research on it when i purchased my camera because it was out of my price range though i have seen a few on the beach.

Julian:

I understand your need to take your cam to a place that is potentially hazardous for it, as I take mine backpacking...and I need to have it constantly accesible, so I carry it in my hands rather than in my backpack. I treat it as if it were a baby, but still.... But being able to shoot while backpacking is my sole reason for having a cam, so some risks must be taken.

I didn't get the 100A, but the DVC30. I received it a couple of weeks ago, and I'm embarrased to say that I haven't shot with it yet (been incredibly busy - just started a business last year). I've done everything short of shooting with it though. It seems solid and feels good in my hands. Viewfinder is nice and sharp. I will get a chance to shoot with it this Friday, and I will let you know more then.

I film in windy dusty environment several; days a week, we have sand blowing from the nw and dirt from the se. No problems to date. I never leave my camera just setting out waitng for footage. I always keep it in a case unless filming. even leaving it out in the truck on on the computer table will allow to much dust in my booK.
I really value my camera and take care of it. My sonys I treat like they're my enemy and they are still going. one took a dunk in africa and is no just a player for the computer, other is just fine. Both of these were together less than half my gl2.

Dale: I understand and agree about not exposing your cam to the elements any more than is absoluty necessary. However, I do video guides of trails and take footage very regularly en-route. One time recently I was returning on a trail that I had previously shot, and had considered putting my cam in my pack - but decided against it...just in case. And it was a good thing. Not 5 minutes later I ran across a bear and got about 15 seconds of excellent footage of him about 25' from me. Had my cam been in my pack he would've been gone before I got it out. Another similar instance I got a woodpecker with beak full of insects that almost filled my entire frame - beautiful.

I got a chance to shoot with my new DVC30 today and was going to post here as per Julian's request. However, I decided to post in the Panasonic forum under "DVC30 First Impressions". Thank you for your interest Julian.

Jonathan,

Don't get me wrong, If I am in a situation I expect to find or stumble across footage I keep it at ready. A few weeks back I was out in the field and had a Bull moose come charging right toward us, pretty cool. I had the video out as i was in all intents hunting for footage at the time.
I was just refering to general transportation and leaving it setting around.


Dale