After experiencing responsiveness issues with my rx10 and which disappeared when I used a new and much faster card I have encountered a more alarming issue yesterday which has not happened before, I was shooting a ceremony, I let the camera autofocus first and then switch to manual focus and let it roll unmanned, when I came back after 10 minutes to check up on the camera the image was totally out of focus while it was still locked in manual focus, a problem which appeared 2 more time and I just switch to auto focus after that for the remainder of the ceremony.
When viewing the footage today I see the it doens't go out of focus immediately but gradually shifts focus over a period of 10 minutes before the image gets all blurry, and all that while the little icon on my screen says "mf" so it's in manual focus, when I switch to autofocus each time the camera did recover immediately. During those 10 minutes there is no focus hunting, it just very slowly goes out of focus. Anyone else has seen this problem?

This means I can't trust the camera for longer unmanned shots while the focus is locked, I"m going to try to replicate the problem this week and if I can it's going back to teh store since it still is under warranty.

I have to say this rx10 of mine has displayed some weird behavior since I have got it, I wonder if it was made on a monday.

Hi Noa,

Any vibration from the (e.g. wooden) floor on which the cam's tripod was on - such as from church music or lots of people walking nearby during this drift in focus?

The camera was standing on a solid tile floor and nobody was passing the camera during the ceremony, it was positioned on the backside of the church. They had live musicians playing behind the alter but I see that the camera got out of focus during speeches as well. This really has me puzzled.

Hey Noa

That is weird!! Surely it has to be a camera fault? Was any lens stabilization on by mistake? I was shooting with the Panny on Saturday and the Church floor had crazy bounce yet my focus stayed perfect but I did get some bounce in the footage as people walked around!! Surely manual is manual .. it might be an idea to put a small chalk mark on the focus ring and then leave it running and see if the ring mark physically moves ... the ring itself might be moving just from internals in the camera ??? That would be worth doing as physically the only thing that should change manual focus would be moving the ring

Sounds like you may have a defective camera here mate, can you return this?

I just tested twice and it stays in focus now, will do some more testing this week. I have absolutely no idea what was going on but I"m 100% sure I set the camera on manual and when I checked back it was still on manual but completely out of focus. 2 weeks ago I used the camera in the same way during a ceremony with no issue. Below a frame grab when I started to record and then 10 minutes later, there is nothing that could have trown it out of focus because when I switched to autofocus it immediately snapped in to focus again.

The bottom right is nearly in focus i would say maybe you had it in auto focus and it was focusing on something else, are you sure it was in manual, as i have thought this in the past Noa and i was mistaken. Steve

Yes, absolutely sure I was in manual focus, checked 3 times while it was recording in church and it went out of focus 3 times. It was also preset to focus in the center of the frame so anything from the sides should not have affected it.

What mode was the camera in? Could auto aperture changes have knocked it out of focus? Even that would be weird but it is a fixed lens camera?

Steve

It was in moviemode, like always and focus, iso, shutter and f-stop was set manually.

I'm wondering if a guest has touched or knocked the camera causing the focus to move.

The way it went out of focus is not normal, it gradually shifted focus over a period of 10 minutes, I tried a few new tests today and all seems fine again, I guess it's one of those Sony mysteries.

Below is one of those 10 minutes in a few seconds, I blocked the top part of the image with faces because I don't have approval to show this online, one thing I noticed is if you look at the right side at the end you see the camera is focusing to a very nearby distance.

Private Video on Vimeo
password: test

I also reported a weird behavior longer time ago that did not reappear

Private Video on Vimeo
password: test

The problem is that if I send the camera in they won't be seeing any problems and I most likely will get it returned with the message that no problem was found, there is definitely something going on with this camera, the slow response issues I experienced a while back disappeared with using a faster card, the problem however started after I updated the firmware, maybe it has something to do with that, not sure.

I feel your pain Noa and know what you mean, my CX730 went crazy on me. I sold it on ebay for what I could.

My PJ780VE now has several buttons that do not work. Call me crazy for using a faulty camera. Other than the projector / night vision and video light buttons not working it functions as normal so I take the gamble every time. It has NEVER been knocked, exposed to water or dropped so I don't know what is going on ...

My nex ea50 had a menu button that stopped working a month after I had the camera, there was a second menubutton on theh side so I could still use it, when I sold the camera after a year and I tell the new buyer the menu button doesn't work, when I show it to him the button suddenly works again...

Very odd, see if you can replicate the issue then send the camera back.

The problem is that if I send the camera in they won't be seeing any problems and I most likely will get it returned with the message that no problem was found.

That may be Noa but no way would I settle for anything less than a replacement camera, no matter what they say.

Amazon UK would replace the camera or give you a full refund.

Stick to your guns, get it replaced. Good luck.

Noa there is now a few comments on this sony focus drift bug, i think thats whats happeniong. steve

Where did you see other users commentng on this?

https://vimeo.com/groups/310670/videos/134010097

Thx for the link but this is something totally different then what I have been experiencing, I have not been able to replicate the problem so far, but just the fact that it did happen rules this camera out for any unattended manual focus shots. Going to test some more next week and if I"m able to repeate the problem I"ll send it back with a copy of the video I took so they can see what happens.

OK cool, doing more tests on the new rx10ii and its flaming growing on me, PP3 and PP6 straight out without grading excellent, slog2 PP7 harder to get right as you have to over expose by three stops, Also not the best on Luts but film convert good for it.

Your in a bad spot Noa, I know you know that, of course. Once a piece of gear breaks your trust it is like a bad girlfriend, you can never trust it again.....

But seriously, have you tried taking both batteries out of it. The main and the button battery that retains your data (I am assuming it has one). Then do a factory reset on it. And reinstall the firmware update. You have had trouble ever since the firmware update. Maybe a factory reset and a clean install of the firmware update would be a good place to start?

You were part of a thread where I was considering an RX10 for a backup camera. I am glad I saw this thread, thank you. I was also checking out the A7 series. Then B&H released some very good reviews on the A7RII a few days ago. One from a still perspective and one from a different guy who focused on 4K video shooting. I was shocked by how honest they were about the good and the bad. As I continue to search for my first small, light, video camera I see this stuff and keep deciding I will wait. On a hot day in New York City, 90 F, the 4K reviewer got ten minutes of shooting before over heating! I live where it is common to hit 110 to 115 degrees Fahrenheit all summer long. Any camera that just shuts down all of a sudden would make me crazy. That just can NOT happen in my world. I am sticking with my EA50s for a while.

Glowing reviews, but honest considering they come from one of the worlds largest resellers.

A7RII still review:

Mirrorless Hits its Mark: the Sony a7RII | explora (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/hands-review/sony-a7rii?utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Newsletter&utm_source=Newsletter%20150819&utm_content=Explora&utm_term=Mirrorless-Hits-its-Mark-Sony-a7RII)

A7RII Video review:

Four Days of 4K: Hands on with the Sony a7RII | explora (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/video/hands-review/sony-a7rII)

Edit: it is the video one I think is so honest.

Kind Regards,

Steve

I own both the Rx10M1 and an A7s and think both these camera are perfect for what I do, The Rx10 is a fantastic all in one kit for video and stills and so far has performed faultless in all conditions. Bummer about your RX Noa. When I think back to all the cameras I've owned over the years it's amazing where we are today with still picture cameras producing video, I never saw this coming and to be honest thought this was a fad that would pass but I now what Sony are doing I'm now converted to DSLR cameras, the only thing missing for me is 4:2:2. I have a larger shoulder mount camera with glass that sits gather dust now.

At yesterdays wedding the slow response issue returned, even while shooting with a fast sd card, but disappeard after I switched batteries, I get some weird behaviour on this camera but I cannot always replicate it, it just comes and goes. I might do a factory reset but not now as I"m in the middle of the wedding season and the camera still performs, I only won't let it record unattended.
The rx10 is currently my most used camera throughout a weddingday, it's the only camera I have that is close enough in providing that dslr look yet has functionality that is close to a real videocamera.

Noa what settings do you use for picture profile, neutral turned all the way down or standard all the way down? Also i am having trouble with the meter bar, when i use auto ISO the meter bar is adjustable via the back scroll wheel or the exposure compensation top wheel and i can see wether i am stopping up or down. When i go into manual ISO say 160 320 then the meter bar only flashes to adjust but the meter bar does not show + or -.Also are you on a mono pod during the day with the rx10? Steve

I use standard with contrast -2 and saturation -1, about ISO, I"m always in manual and use the scroll wheel on the back to adust while I"m shooting. And I always shoot handheld with the rx10, I have it attached to a belt, ready to be used whenever necessary. Only at the venue I take it off because I don't find it lightsensitive enough.

Cheers Noa
That's great. Takes a little time getting used to from Canon, but the little rx10ii growing fast on me!
Slog 2 awful for weddings but neutral nice today! Touch up and fits in well with 6d.
Hfm56 same on shoulder as back but now this new cam with nice zoom and feel and bokeh at 2.8 aperture. Cheers main man

Noa -
This is a "long shot", but mark the battery that was in the camera during the malfunction, then run tests with that battery specifically.

I'm wondering if you got one of the many knockoff batteries out there somehow - they can LOOK perfect, and just like a genuine Sony (packaging and all), but we all know about "knockoff" memory and the problems that it can cause... batteries are ALSO at the top of the counterfeit/knockoff list. In some cases, 90% of the listings for memory and batteries on a certain site are FAKES, not "compatibles" but actual knockoffs of genuine product designed to defraud buyers... complete with logos, copies of the genuine packaging, and so on!!

The FW50 in particular was one that was hard to source in genuine channels at reasonable prices, making it a top target for HK/CH counterfeiters. I've seen many "fakes" myself, that may or may not work in a camera... I actually have a box of them somewhere... They would work in SOME of the NEX cams, not in others, and I think they did work in the RX10 when I checked. The one observable "tell" is the fakes are a fraction shorter from contact end to the end that shows when inserted, and there's an odd looking "checkmark" on the labels, at least on the ones I've seen... but of course counterfeiters can and will alter their bogus "product" to try to make the fakes look more genuine.



I'm wondering if you got a "almost compatible" knockoff that isn't supplying the full needed voltage/current to the camera - theoretically that should cause the camera to shut down, but I'm thinking if it was "close enough" it might continue to "work", but then have random "low current" related "issues"?

Having seen MANY "counterfeit caused" malfunctions over the years, it's worth mentioning, though I'm sure you're like I am, and TRY to buy only genuine product <wink>. I've even seen "returns" that turned out to be knockoffs, with so many counterfeit products out there, you always have to at least consider that MAY be the problem... and since modern electronics are likely to be sensitive to even small variances in "juice" being supplied, I'd say that's your next "test protocol"!

Thx for the tip Dave, will mark the battery this Saturday at my next wedding and do some further testing, I also will know if both batteries give me a slow response issue then it's not the battery because at least one of those 2 is original as it came with the camera.

Slog 2 awful for weddings

Is slog2 not supposed to be colorcorrected to match any other camera? I have read on another forum that skintones come out very yellowish and are difficult to get right in post, I suppose if it was easy to correct one would always shoot slog2 with this camera to gain more DR.

Might be worth it to put the two batteries next to each other sitting on the bottom end and see if one is "short" by a tiny amount (it's not much, 1/64 - 1/32 in inches, probably under a mm in metric). That's an easy "tell" that it's a knockoff. Still possible you've got a bunk battery either way since there seems to be some correlation (or it could be the camera soft resets when the battery is popped out).

I've done electronic repairs for "a while", so I've seen a few things... intermittent issues are the worst to troubleshoot, but with patience... you can usually figure them out!

Hi Noa

Not completely related but our one Nikons locked up on Sunday ..mirror went up and stayed up until I put a fresh set of batteries in the camera grip and I discovered that one of the two grip batteries is a aftermarket one and it had failed miserably and was locking up the camera.. the battery actually had an individual cell that had short circuited and what gave it away was a tiny bulge in the casing where the cell had expanded when it failed

I would definitely drop a genuine Sony battery into the camera and see if the problem goes away. My EA-50's used to have the same issue as all my video light batteries are also Sony (but aftermarket) and they would work one day in the camera and then cause havoc the next.

Dave is probably onto something here!!! It could also be the decoding circuitry in the after market battery is just not up to scratch too.

I've seen firsthand that Sony changes the "coding" from time to time when refreshing models - Sony genuine batteries seem to ALWAYS work if the camera was designed to take them (won't get into the "FP/FH/FV" variants... physically nearly identical, backward compatible, but older ones didn't work in newer cams!).

Since the fake/counterfeit/knockoffs may not have proper "coding", they can work on one, and not another model... and "work" could well vary in many ways...

You also really don't KNOW what cells are in a fake, one big reason I've avoided them, the possibility of explosive failure is probably remote, but "not on my watch"!!

Counterfeiting is a HUGE business, and they know that things like batteries and Memory cards tend to be very expensive for the REAL ones, they aren't hard to copy physically, and so it's easy to sell to unsuspecting victims looking for a "deal". There is of course no "accountability" by counterfeiters if something goes horribly wrong...

I'm not joking when I say that up to 90% (+!) of the "product" in some categories on one popular site is FAKE. It's nearly impossible for the manufacturers to stop it, and with "online e-commerce", there are MANY ways counterfeit stuff can get through. Of course when there's a malfunction, the manufacturer or seller of the GENUINE expensive piece of electronic equipment becomes the first suspect... sometimes a deal isn't such a deal... I know it took me a while to collect enough GENUINE FW50's for my RX's, and I had a bunch of fakes around from NEX cams I experimented with...

I'm intrigued by whether Noa has a fake one (post a pic of the front and back if the measuring trick doesn't work - labels are one place the counterfeiters usually goof up, right along with minor molding errors). I'm guessing that a substandard battery might cause a voltage/current "drift" to the focus circuitry, but I'm spitballin' just a bit!

Might be worth it to put the two batteries next to each other

I compared them both and can't find any difference in shape, size or with markings on the battery, if one would be a fake then they sure did a good job :)

I would definitely drop a genuine Sony battery into the camera and see if the problem goes away.

The second battery I got was a original one, at least it was sold and priced as a original battery.

The fakes often sell for almost as much as the real deal, and typically they are "good". Since I buy most of my stuff used, I see all sorts of things, so I've learned to look for the "tells", but of course the crooks get better over time!

I might have narrowed the camera problem down to the battery, used the camera on a shoot yesterday and it was a hot day, quite quickly the camera became slow in response and gradually got worse, then I switched batteries and the camera responded well again. Now I will mark this supposed good battery and start using that one for my next shoot untill it's empty to see if there is any strange behaviour and a week after that I"ll use the battery that gave me the problems in the same way. That should give an indication if it's a fake battery.