Hi Guys

We have a stack of comments getting tangled up with the wildlife thread so I thought I would start a new thread about impressions, comments and maybe questions on those with a new FZ2000 or 2500

I like it so far especially the Fn1 and Fn2 slow zoom buttons on the lens barrel ..the FZ1000 was tricky to zoom for video and these now have awesome and smooth control. The camera is also easier to mount with the tripod thread now in the "correct position"

Anybody found anything great that I still have to discover??

I did have an issue with the micro HDMI ports on my FZ1000's which became damaged when a bad cable bent the tiny pins so on the FZ2500 I have a much better device called a Lock Port which makes the micro port into a full sized one and you can anchor it securely to the base ... LockPort have the hardware to suit a GH4 if you don't use a rig of any sort but all our cameras have an aluminium flat bar under the camera with two foam grips either side so I make a simple clamp for the Lock Port so I can be as rough as I like with the cable and the tiny micro port won't get damaged.

Hi Guys

We have a stack of comments getting tangled up with the wildlife thread so I thought I would start a new thread about impressions, comments and maybe questions on those with a new FZ2000 or 2500

I like it so far especially the Fn1 and Fn2 slow zoom buttons on the lens barrel ..the FZ1000 was tricky to zoom for video and these now have awesome and smooth control. The camera is also easier to mount with the tripod thread now in the "correct position"

Anybody found anything great that I still have to discover??

Great idea! I'm still learning to use it. I've read through the manual once and been through the menu a number of times. So much to learn. Seems to be a lot different than my canon dlsr. I was a little disappointed with the dolly zoom feature after reading the manual. If I understand it correctly, you have to film twice and still need a dolly. After seeing the promo videos, I assumed it would be a simple touch of a button to activate the dolly zoom. I was really looking forward to overusing that feature. Might not be possible while filming wildlife. I'm sure I'll enjoy using the camera and will eventually learn its many features.

Hi Larry

With Dolly Zoom you only have to film once but yes, you do need to move the camera either forward or backward depending on which Fn button is being used to keep the subject size roughly the same so the sequence would be ..set Dolly Zoom to on ....if you are doing a zoom out move the camera forward to the keep the subject size the same and push the Fn1 button ...the subject will keep still and the background will come forward too. I wonder if it would work with the camera handheld?? It would be fairly easy to walk towards the subject or away from it whilst pressing the Fn buttons ... To be honest I cannot see a use for it in wildlife unless your animal stands still .... I think zoom out might be more dramatic .. I have a wedding tomorrow but I'll play with the camera during the week ... I do really like the slow zoom feature ...makes it way better than the FZ1000 ..... At weddings I can now creep zoom into the bridal couple whereas the FZ1000 was hit and miss affair. I'm sure we will discover more uses as we go on. I was looking at the 4K pan/zoom feature too but I normally do that in post but with us using live broadcasts we might find that useful too. If you are doing any shooting off the tripod, think about making a grip like in my post above ..it makes a HUGE difference to handheld shots!

That's good to know Chris. I certain I dolly zoom wouldn't work for wildlife if I had to film twice. Once will be difficult enough. I can see dolly zooming in on a rodent, a snake's meal. My problem is, I haven't even been able to get the dolly zoom option highlighted in order to turn it on. I know it's only available under with certain video formats. I've tried every one and still don't get an option to turn it on in the menu. I'll figure it out eventually.

Good idea for the handheld unit. Thanks.

It needs a format that supports variable frame rates so for you it should work in AVCHD 60P It definately won't work in any MP4 format and always needs a double frame rate hence the 60P instead of 30P

I have a wedding shoot later so I also test mine after that and see what works

Yes, as I mentioned, I've tried every recording format possible. Just revisited it and see that the men shows which formats support VFR. Looks like only some of the 24fps or 29.99fps are supported. I selected AVCHD and 24M/30p which is "VFR available", yet the dolly zoom option is not highlghted in the menu.

Good luck at the wedding.

Happy New Year.

You need to be in MP4(LPCM) format and choose 100m/30p or 100m/24p to use dolly zoom.

Looks like it will also work in MOV format although I haven't actually tried that yet.

I also had to turn off VFR, otherwise dolly zoom wasn't available. Thanks.

Another lesson learned ..However at the wedding today I don't think I'll mess around too much ..might try the dolly zoom at home first. Also this wedding is on a beach so using the tripod on a dolly won't work in soft sand. I will use the new slow zoom feature though ...it's really neat and silky smooth!

Let me know if you think the dolly zoom is a worthwhile feature?

I posted he comment below in the 'wildlife' thread but have just found Chris's new thread so I'll post it here instead, a more appropriate place

Here I go again, new to the FZ! Happy New Year to all but I have a question.

Does the FZ2500 have AGC? I was testing it under low light conditions in a restaurant with a singer and a backgound of people eating and chatting. I was using a Rode video pro mic and was about 3 metres away from the singer. In the quiet parts I think I can hear an increae in hiss/hum which seemed to fade when the singer sang again.I can remove it in FCPX. It seemed to be AGC but I can find no reference to it in the advanced manual nor on line. If it is there I want to switch it off!

Help please!
__________________
Mike

Another lesson learned ..However at the wedding today I don't think I'll mess around too much ..might try the dolly zoom at home first. Also this wedding is on a beach so using the tripod on a dolly won't work in soft sand. I will use the new slow zoom feature though ...it's really neat and silky smooth!

Let me know if you think the dolly zoom is a worthwhile feature?


Does the FZ2500 have AGC? ... It seemed to be AGC but I can find no reference to it in the advanced manual nor on line. If it is there I want to switch it off!

Help please!
__________________
Mike

Chris, good call on delaying the use of dolly zoom while on a tripod on a beach. Speaking of the beach, I'm searching for some way to protect the camera from saltwater breeze and sand. Was thinking of something like a LensCoat RainCoat, but haven't found one that would seem to work well with a bridge camera with function buttons on the lens and touchscreen, etc. Really not sure if I'm being overly concerned. Did you take any precautions.

Mike, wish I could help, but I'm so new to this that I had to research AGC; automatic gain control? It appears to have something to do with audio. Maybe someone in an audio forum could help answer that question.

AGC, Automatic Gain Control, is very common on a lot of audio and video equipment. It is a method of reducing the chances of overloading the audio input by levelling the recording. It works by using a fast attack compression, which instantly limits the maximum level to a preset limit, usually factory set. The limiting is released once the sound source drops below the limiting threshold. The release can be quick or slow depending on how it was set, but basically brings the sensitivity back up which can lead to background system hiss being audible. You can also get a pumping effect if there is a lot of regular quick variation in the source level, such as close miking a voice or loud music etc.

The FZ1000 and probably the FZ2500 has a menu setting for switching between auto level or manual. This can only usually be accessed with the camera in manual mode. Modern camera AGC is usually quite effective in moderate sound variation situations, but is generally pretty basic and for better sound control you should leave on manual. Audio recorders like the Zoom H1 also have switchable auto gain, which in the case of the Zoom is quite aggressive with a slow release rate which is very noticeable on recordings. I always use mine in manual.

Hope that helps,

Roger

The level control on newer cameras is a lot better than the old AGC that used to ramp up very quickly! My XLR adapter actually has an AGC defeat signal that you can turn on (it's just a high frequency signal that's applied to your audio that makes the camera think it has a constant audio level.

With that said the FZ series audio limiters are pretty good and won't ramp up like the old camcorders used to but as Roger says it's way better to just turn it off on the camera but of course you then have to have some sort of audio control to handle different audio levels in the room/venue so unless your audio is coming from a mixer of sorts or at least something you can control the input level of, then you have no option but to use the camera with limit turned on ...better to have a little hiss/noise than have totally blown out audio. On my B-Cam FZ1000 with a shotgun mic it's always on as venue audio can change dramatically!!

AGC, Automatic Gain Control, is very common on a lot of audio and video equipment. It is a method of reducing the chances of overloading the audio input by levelling the recording. It works by using a fast attack compression, which instantly limits the maximum level to a preset limit, usually factory set. The limiting is released once the sound source drops below the limiting threshold. The release can be quick or slow depending on how it was set, but basically brings the sensitivity back up which can lead to background system hiss being audible. You can also get a pumping effect if there is a lot of regular quick variation in the source level, such as close miking a voice or loud music etc.

The FZ1000 and probably the FZ2500 has a menu setting for switching between auto level or manual. This can only usually be accessed with the camera in manual mode. Modern camera AGC is usually quite effective in moderate sound variation situations, but is generally pretty basic and for better sound control you should leave on manual. Audio recorders like the Zoom H1 also have switchable auto gain, which in the case of the Zoom is quite aggressive with a slow release rate which is very noticeable on recordings. I always use mine in manual.

Hope that helps,

Roger

Thanks Roger, but I'm still baffeld. I put the FZ2500 on to manual video and still can't find any control that suggst AGC can be turned off. Could you help a simpleton and point me to the setting? I have been using a Sony X 70, no problem with that.I also use a Tascam audio recorder and again, no problem.
Thanks

Hey Mike

Switch to creative video mode and then look in the video menu for "Mic Level Limiter" and turn it off!
That switches off the AGC ... remember the only control you then have prior to recording is the mic level so if the audio level increases you are basically buggered. If you want to use manual in an uncontrolled environment (unlike an interview) you will need some sort of manual level control like a passive mixer on the hot shoe ..unlike pro camcorders you don't have a physical level control!! My cam sits on an XLR adapter which splits two inputs into left and right and gives me peaking control and level control too.

If you are doing run 'n gun stuff where the audio fluctuates wildly then the limiter needs to be left on!!

Ok we did a video shoot on the beach yesterday so here are some impressions both good and not so good.

(1) My normal MO is to focus with a half shutter press and then record. If I need to adjust focus on the FZ1000 then I just half press shutter but this is a big issue on the FZ2500 ...the shutter button is very easily pressed a tiny bit too much to refocus and the recording stops ...I did just that yesterday and lost the bride and grooms first kiss ..big bummer!!! ...However the touch screen focus is awesome (I really should have used it to refocus!) and keeps the camera recording safely without touching the shutter button!! I will know next time!!
(2) I was quite surprised with the iDynamic setting left on auto ... We were shooting straight into bright water on the beach so i did an exposure correction of 1 2/3 stops so faces looked good in the EVF ..I actually could have just let the camera DR handle it as it was a tad over exposed so the EVF doesn't actually show as good a range as the DR setting actually can give you. You can record into quite a bright background and the camera will recognise the backlighting and correct it for you. They also have a touch function for AE and it supposedly exposes for the spot on the screen you touch but it doesn't work that well with heavy backlit conditions.
(3) In really bright conditions you cannot see the LCD ... sun in your eyes and white sand is tough conditions!!) That does make using touch focus which I love hard to use but we did have extreme conditions admittedly

Overall I'm pretty happy ..slow fast focus buttons are smooth as silk and you also have a two speed zoom on the LCD so you can zoom in and out by touching the LCD and choose the speed. Nice if the cam is tripod mounted.

Haven't played with the high bitrate modes yet nor the variable frame rates or slow/fast and dolly zoom ...it's got tons of features that still need to be discovered!!

I have a Carryspeed VF4 Loupe, originally for a GH4 on my FZ1000. Does make focussing in bright sunshine easier partic as I use telephoto a lot. Adds to the bulk of course.

Ron

I love to contribute but I'm still bloody waiting - ordered in Nov!

Hey Paul

I did a pre-order in September!! Only got it last week! The next batch are due mid January so not long to wait!!

Hi Mike,

I see Chris has answered the setting question for you, time difference meant I didn't see it until this morning in the UK.

Chris is right on the run and gun where there are constant big audio variations, you really have to leave the AGC on, but when there is a reasonably constant audio of course it is better to use manual set to allow for the highest sounds. It's more effective to choose the amount of compression you may want in post rather than relying on the extremes of AGC when you have a practical choice.

Roger

Thanks Roger

One thing to remember is that Panasonic (like Sony) use limiters now rather than AGC so it's very unlikely that the level will rise as the circuitry only limits the peaks above the mic input gain (default is 0db which is way too much except inside a studio). The only time you will be a noisy floor level is when you cam is set to 0db so then it will still only limit (I think 8db max) At 0db a lot of ambience will still come thru and "sound" like AGC noise but it's simply allowing noise to come thru that's up to 0 db which is quite a high level. If you set up the camera with at least a -6db mic level then a lot of low level ambience is eliminated. I tend to keep my cameras at -9db so they have a lower floor level and you don't hear as much ambience as you would at 0db when no-one is talking. Try setting up the camera with your audio system (wireless mics or shotgun) and listen on headphones in a normal room and turn the mic level down to the threshold you want ...then when your audio comes thru when talent is talking into the mic you get nice audio but when they stop talking the input level is low enough to not cause the camera to send it thru to the audio channel as it's set low.

If Mike checks his FZ2500 I bet the mic gain is set at default which is 0db!!

All good points Chris. I think the older cameras used a compander which expanded the audio sensitivity in low input situations, then compressed or limited it at the higher end. It always gave you an increase of noise over a couple of seconds as the expander kicked in at low input.

The mic sensitivity is also important as you mentioned. At 0db you will hear much more of the general ambient sound that may be important in many instances, but with greater compression at the higher volume end of the scale. With -6 or -9db of reduction, you will get far less lower level pickup but less compression at the higher end. Compression and limiting is very useful, but the more a sound is compressed, the more it will change in tone, as the more dominant frequencies will be compressed earlier.

One other thing to bear in mind is that a 3db increase is effectively a doubling in audible volume and of course -3db is halving. So varying audio by 6db or more is a significant change of overall volume.

Roger

Chris and Roger,
Thanks so much,I have 0dB set, I'll wind it down and play with it. For plays where I know sound levels I'll switch it off, in any case my main audio is eiither into a Tascam or into my X70 via shotguns (impossible to get close so 2 XLR shotguns giving stereo into the Sony X70). The audio into the FZ2500 will be for syncing or back up. But for run and gun I'l play with -3 to -9 dB and get it set.
Thanks again.

The zoom function buttons are truely awesome, but I've noticed that when the camera is auto-zooming (F1) and the focal length enters the digital zoom region (light and dark blue zones), the zoom-in speed increases. Had my zoom speed set to medium and noticed the increase in those blue areas. It was nice and smooth in both areas, but on playback it was a little choppy. Don't recall what format I recorded that with. Might have been 4K. Also, the choppy play may be a result of viewing on my old macbook.

When selecting the MP4 (LPCM) or MOV recording formats the menu states that, a high performance PC is required to play or edit. Precisely what do they consider to be a high performance PC. Am I correct in assuming that a late 2008 macbook pro doesn't qualify.

Hi Larry

I'm on PC and a i7 2600 which is a 3.4GB processor and 4K is quite choppy on zooms too. We do live streaming and the specs on our live switching software is a 6 core processor 4.00ghz machine ...A 4K image eats up CPU so even a 2008 Mac will probably struggle with the frame rate and huge file size ...If you are using really high bitrates like the 200mbps an older machine will struggle!!

Any reason why you are shooting 4K ...or just because it's there?? I'm assuming you have a 4K monitor on the mac? and also a 4K TV ....otherwise it a bit pointless. If I shoot in 4K I still render my video out at 1080 so it's usable on normal devices and the sub chroma sampling during downsizing also creates a 4:2:2 video in 1080.

If you are however watching and editing 4K thruout you will have to dig into your wallet and get a speedy new computer!!

Just testing 4K, although I don't have a 4K monitor or TV. I expect that I'll want to use it in the future to crop in and downgrade to 1080. That's in the future though.

Thanks for the info about bitrates. That helps. Recorded a clip this morning in AVCHD 24m/30p just to get familiar with the camera. Great quality, with VFR. Files don't download like they do with my canon. Anyone with a mac that can assist? When downloading MP4 recordings from my canon I get files, with names, that I can easily import into Lightroom. When downloading from the Lumix all I get are movie icons that can apparently only be imported into Apple's Movie software. These screenshots may help explain it better:

Hi Larry,

I don't use Macs apart from the iPad, so am probably missing something here, but it looks like you are opening the files as photos rather than video. Are you not using a Mac video editing programme to view your files? For example I wouldn't be viewing my Panasonic video files in Photoshop on my PC.

Roger

I'm getting very smooth zooms in 4K and 1080 up until I enter the I zoom range at which point the zoom stops briefly and then jumps and speeds up. I zoom is really only useable for me to reframe. Happens regardless of whether I'm in 4K or 1080.

Larry,
I'm editing through FCPX on a 2012 i7 i Mac 3.4 GHz with 32 GB Ram, 2Gb GPU . It handles 4k fine. I only shoot in 4k sometimes like Chris, so that I can crop without loss of 1080 quality but all my output and editing is done at 1080p. I've been playing with MOV files 100mbps 50fps. I've not tested zooms , just fixed focal lengths
I suspect your computer is not up to it.
I can also view footage in Quick Time and it runs fairly well.
Until you can afford a new computer why not just stick to 2K or buy FCPX and edit your 4K at 2K or try running proxy files, they will run well and when you've finished editing output at whatever resolution you want up to 4K

As I video plays I need to know how long these batteries will last. They are smaller and have less capacity than my old GH3 batteris. One act can be 40-60 minutes of continous recording.
The manual says 110 minutes without zooming on switching on and off or 55 minutes if doing some zooming and on/off
I set the camera to1080p MOV 100mbps, 25fps and tried three batteries, all had been charged less than 10 times and were fully charged to start. Time to red light or stop.

Authentic Panasonic (supplied) (£48) no on/off or zoom 148 minutes

Chinese copy 'Panasonic' (£28) no on/off or zoom 147 minutes

No Name Chinese battery (£14) on/off twice, no zoom 118 minutes

So it would seem that I will get a 1 hour act recorded safely as I wlil use this camera as a 'B' camera with no on/off and little if any zoom.It seems pointless testing on/off or zoom as that is highly variable and will consume a lot of power.
Of interest to me, hope it's of interest to others :)

Hi Mike

Thanks for that ..I get an hour continuous quite easily on my FZ1000's which have the same battery. Did you know that you can also use a DC Coupler (no mains supply) and connect that to a biiger Li-Ion pack?? As long as the input voltage is 8.2 or higher the camera won't reject the battery as "non genuine" as it thinks it's getting mains power. You can get 12V Li_ion CCTV battery packs up to 9000mah on eBay but of course you would need a simple voltage regulator circuit to keep the output at 8.2 not 12 ....Cameras will run all night on that!!!

Thanks Chris, for the information about attaching bigger capacity batteries to the DC coupler, I've got one on order and will play with it when I get it.

No problem Mike

Just remember it MUST be 8.2volt output otherwise the came will come up with the "This Battery Cannot be Used" error ....that's why you cannot use a normal 7.2 volt battery as it expects a decoded battery ...if the camera "sees" 8.2 or more then it assumes mains is being used and will run fine. I put my battery into a neat plastic box from Jaycar electronics and wired in the voltage regulator kit inside too.

Thanks Chris I'll get the soldering iron out :)

Hi Mike

If it helps at all, I also made a little tutorial on the battery pack ..it also has a built-in led level meter which can be ignored ...my local guys never had any voltage regulator kits so I made my own on a piece of veroboard.

I bought an AC adaptor- DMW-AC8 and DC coupler from Ebay, cost £11 .I apprehensively plugged it and and Yippee! it works in my FZ2500.

I can't figure out how to prevent the LED display from dimming after about 1 minute of no use. I've turned off Economy and WiFi Economy, but the display still dims down about 20% unless I touch a button or the display.

Hi Larry

I see nothing in the manual ...seems like instead of omitting components on the display but retaining the image at full brightness, it just dims everything! Guess we have to keep touching the screen to bring it back unless anyone has found out another method? Does this happen during video and stills for you?

Chris,

I haven't tried it with stills. The 2500 is dedicated to video.
If I have to keep touching the screen the focus point keeps changing or I shake the video. Need hands elsewhere.

The FZ2500 is not a dedicated video camera, it is a hybrid camera which has greatly improved video facilities over the FZ1000 and is equally capable of both video and photography shooting.

Roger

The last wedding I did in december last year the photog had a fz1000 and a gx8.

I've done a number of photography only weddings this year where I have use a Canon DSLR alongside one of my FZ1000s. The beauty of the FZ1000 and presumably FZ2500 is the speed and convenience of using it with it's big Zoom, excellent viewfinder and screen, and on the newer model the built in ND filters.

Roger

I think Larry means he has dedicated his FZ2500 to shooting video ...I'm the same, I use the 2500 for video and the FZ1000's for stills and sometimes also B cam video.

His issue is the FZ2500 dims the LCD screen after 30 seconds and if you touch the screen to bring it back to full brightness and you have touch focus enabled you could easily change the focus point without realising it ..equally if you use the shutter button to "wake up" the screen you could quite easily push a tad too hard and stop the video!!

I will experiment later today and see what I come up with..have a wedding rehearsal to attend this morning

I think Larry means he has dedicated his FZ2500 to shooting video ...I'm the same, I use the 2500 for video and the FZ1000's for stills and sometimes also B cam video.

His issue is the FZ2500 dims the LCD screen after 30 seconds and if you touch the screen to bring it back to full brightness and you have touch focus enabled you could easily change the focus point without realising it ..equally if you use the shutter button to "wake up" the screen you could quite easily push a tad too hard and stop the video!!

I will experiment later today and see what I come up with..have a wedding rehearsal to attend this morning

Exactly. I bought the 2500 to use exclusively for video. I have a canon dlsr for stills.

Chris,

I may have found the solution. I've switched the Monitor Lumanince from Mode 1 to Auto. Page 231 in the manual says the monitor will dim in Mode 1 after 30 seconds of no buttons being pressed. It may not happen in the auto mode. I'll test it tomorrow if the sun comes out.
The potential problem is that it seems we can't manually adjust brightness hgher in any mode other than Mode 1.

Hi Larry

Yes 100% correct! I was out today in the bright sun and never experienced any dimming at all. My cam was on auto by default .. I assume you changed it to Mode 1?

Auto seems to work pretty well even in bright sun !!

Agree with Chris, out today filming in a clinic, no dimming while running on 'manual video' but the screen dims if in standby and no buttons pressed. Each clip was about one to 2 minutes long and one interview was about 6 minutes. Monitor luminance 'auto'

Exactly. I bought the 2500 to use exclusively for video. I have a canon dlsr for stills.

Aah I see! You meant you have dedicated it to video, I would certainly try it with stills though as it should be even better than the FZ1000. I frequently use mine instead of my Canon DSLR.

Roger