View Full Version : SONY's answer to the GH5?


Cliff Totten
April 3rd, 2017, 08:59 AM
So we all know that the GH5 is taking the industry by storm. Its a camera that breaks just about every industry marketing rule that has ever existed. They have literally placed dozens of high end features that, simply put,...have absolutely no place being on a $2000 camera like this. (Traditionally speaking)

Panasonic does this because they have no immediate camera above the GH5 to worry about canabolizing.

SONY "does" have this worry. Its a very BIG worry for their lineup. If they produce a camera that matches the GH5, feature for feature, including 10bit 4k, they will create a big marketing problem for themselves.

So....anyone care to speculate as to what SONY's GH5 answer is going to be? Will Sony dare a 10bit camera??

Answer will be at NAB this month.....

CT

Ron Evans
April 3rd, 2017, 10:03 AM
Not so bothered about 10bit. My sole reason to have ordered the GH5 is UHD 60P. Interchangeable lens and bigger sensor than my FDR-AX1. Also has a WiFi remote app that looks to do all I want too. Sony does not have a competitor for the GH5 or the Panasonic AG-UX180/HC-X1 for my specs. Hence my shift to Panasonic from Sony to get a better performing UHD 60P camera. For me the first in the Sony lineup to meet my needs is the FS7. Far too expensive for me. Sony logic seems strange. They were the first with 4K cameras with the FDR-AX1 and PXW Z100 and have just not maintained those specs with better sensors. Panasonic has just done that with the UX180/HC-X1 likely with Sony sensors !!!! I would have bought the FS5 if it had UHD 60P but for some reason it didn't !!!

Dave Blackhurst
April 3rd, 2017, 08:05 PM
Sony has rested on its laurels (AX100/X70) in the "prosumer" range for quite a while now. The sensors in those video cameras have been upgraded significantly in the RX camera lines (RX10M2/M3 and RX100M3/M4/M5), and yet they still haven't pushed the limits to release something with 4K/60p...

Of course a lot of R&D has gone into the Alpha E mount, but even there they are a bit behind the curve.

In a shrinking market, innovation is one of the few differentiating factors, and even Panasonic has announced downsizing/restructuring despite having the "hot product" of the moment.

It will be interesting to see the next moves!

Cliff Totten
April 5th, 2017, 07:44 AM
My Sony NAB 2017 prediction.

A7S-III = 8bit XAVC-S UHD, 20mp sensor, BSI illuminated with 6k readout. 10bit 30p HDMI output only! Will have truely incredable 4k detail and image quality.

FS5-II = 10bit XAVC-L and 10bit HDMI. If the A7S-III must have 10bit HDMI output, that totatly screws over the current FS5. So an "FS5-II" must exist to match its 10bit HDMI sibling. They still lock the FS5-II at 30p, 10bit to protect the FS7's 60p "specialness". (Maybe,...just maybe they give this "FS5-II" 60p HDMI only.)

So, i think Sony does 2 new models at NAB. ( possibly a new Z150 on steroids with electronic ND?)

Jim Feeley
April 6th, 2017, 10:09 AM
Cliff's technical predictions sound pretty good. But I wonder if for their still/hybrid cameras they'll hold off on announcements until after NAB. Probably not until the photo expos in late summer, but maybe sit quiet during NAB to not distract from whatever the video side is doing.

Or not...I guess we'll see soon...I'd love to see a small Sony camera with less CMOS roll or even a good global shutter.

Regardless, could be an interesting NAB and will be interesting to see what Sony (and perhaps Canon?) introduce in the coming months...

Mark Rosenzweig
April 6th, 2017, 01:26 PM
Most professional videographers do not shoot at 60p, though it certainly has its uses.

The real advance of the GH5 is 4:2:2 10bit internally. But that improvement is only visible if you start with a flat profile and heavily grade. Straight from the camera these do not matter much (and, yes, I have compared from the GH4 8bit 4:2:0 and 10bit 4:2:2 using an Atomos Shogun). I have not seen any ooc video that demonstrates 10bit makes a difference. So 10 versus 8 for many just sounds better, they get no real benefit.

With the GH5 you are still stuck with a relatively small sensor compared with APS-C and FF, which is what Sony is supplying. The DR and low-light performance (A7s ii) of these sensors is *visibly* superior to those of the GH5.

Sony has pushed using gamma profiles and grading to max DR, so they should go 10bit. My bet is they go 10bit before they offer UHD 60p, given who is really using their hardware. And they will upgrade the A7s ii with hybrid AF, which will be far superior to the AF of the GH5, which is still mediocre.

Ron Evans
April 6th, 2017, 02:01 PM
I shoot 60i or 60P because I do not like the look of slow frame rates and all my output is to interlace DVD or Bluray. I like the smooth look of video rather than the film look. I know I am not the norm. I think that the current use of 30P is mainly because the cameras couldn't do 60P there is also the confusion that people make with NTSC being 29.97fps and think that is 30P.

Bruce Dempsey
April 6th, 2017, 02:10 PM
Ron you like interlace dvd better than progressive dvd?
going to test that right now from some 4k 30p from my ax100
Any little improvement is welcome

Noa Put
April 6th, 2017, 04:15 PM
Most professional videographers do not shoot at 60p, though it certainly has its uses.

How do you know? Is there a list somewhere of professional videographers and what framerate they use? :)

Mark Rosenzweig
April 6th, 2017, 05:38 PM
How do you know? Is there a list somewhere of professional videographers and what framerate they use? :)

Prove me wrong! :)

More seriously, digital cameras are used by professionals to shoot for TV and movies, for example. For the latter, 24p is used; for TV drama, not 60p - 24p or 30p or 60i. Sports live will use 60i and 72060p, since those are US standards. 108060p is not a standard for any deliverable, let alone UHD 60p.

I am not arguing that therefore UHD 60p is not good and useful (for slow motion, for example) or that what cinema and TV professionals do is the standard of what anyone should do. Only that Sony will respond based on what they think there will be demand for, which is more likely (for TV and cinema) 10bit, not 60p, if they have to choose.

I know that professionals do more than TV and cinema, but they still have to deliver video that consumers can use, which will not be UHD 60p for a long while. But I certainly know that UHD 60p is desirable.

Ron Evans
April 6th, 2017, 06:35 PM
Ron you like interlace dvd better than progressive dvd?
going to test that right now from some 4k 30p from my ax100
Any little improvement is welcome

All my DVD's are standard 60i ( 29.97fps for the purists ) and so are my Blurays. I like the smooth motion and really dislike the judder of the slower frame rates. Which is why I only use my AX100 and AX53 in 108060P. I sometimes use my FDR-AX1 in UHD 60P ( crop/pan /zoom ) use in the 60i project and edit in EDIUS .

Ron Evans
April 6th, 2017, 06:42 PM
UHD 60P is perfect to edit into all sorts of outputs. I use it to edit in a 60i project as my main use. Smooth motion. Will also happily edit in a 1280x720P60 project etc or even a 30P project for the internet since 30P isn't a broadcast standard either. It can also be used to get slow motion in a 30P project. Seems to me a very sensible acquisition frame rate. If you shoot in 24P your stuck there with the judder and film look as your only output.

Noa Put
April 7th, 2017, 01:59 AM
Prove me wrong! :)

That's easy, first if I check online for the definition of "a professional" it looks like I am a professional as well and I use 50P extensively in my paid work.
Second, if professionals don't use 50/60p why does Sony give the fs7 a 4K 50/60p option but not it's camera's in the lower priced region? Is that to please any amateur that buys their 8,5K camerabody?

Mark Rosenzweig
April 7th, 2017, 07:33 AM
That's easy, first if I check online for the definition of "a professional" it looks like I am a professional as well and I use 50P extensively in my paid work.
Second, if professionals don't use 50/60p why does Sony give the fs7 a 4K 50/60p option but not it's camera's in the lower priced region? Is that to please any amateur that buys their 8,5K camerabody?

If you thought I meant no professionals use 50p or 60p then you got me. But that of course is not what I meant, as I am sure you knew.

The FS5 and the A7s ii do not have a UHD 60p option, and they are used by many professionals, the former almost exclusively. The number of professionals who have actually used the FS7 60p option I would guess (show me I am wrong) is far less than the number of professionals using the FS5 or those using the FS7 without using the option. And I have not even mentioned the professionals who use Canons with no 60p 4K.

Most of the early adopters of the GH5 who post on the internet about cameras are obsessed with 10bit advantages (and AF performance!), not with displaying how nice and smooth 60p is.

My "prediction" is based on what I think the demand is, not based on the usefulness of 60p. I hope I am wrong. And I find it puzzling that so many "professionals" shoot at 24p, other than if it's required for cinema. Maybe I hang around with the wrong professionals...

It would be great to have actual sales figures to know who is buying what. I do know that based on Amazon sales, the best selling camera of all cameras sold on Amazon, which includes every camera ever made, is a pink Fuji printer/camera. Yes, professionals don't buy on Amazon (meaning most professionals), but Sony and Panasonic have to be profitable, and if there is relatively little demand for a feature they will not invest in it. Perhaps the next A7x iii will be pink.

Noa Put
April 7th, 2017, 09:56 AM
The number of professionals who have actually used the FS7 60p option I would guess (show me I am wrong) is far less than the number of professionals using the FS5 or those using the FS7 without using the option.

You guess? How can I prove you wrong if you don't even know yourself? I was reacting to your claim that "Most professional videographers do not shoot at 60p" which is ofcourse just like your other statements a guess because you don't know, there is a reason why Sony includes more codec options, bitrates and frame rates in their higher end camera's because they are used by professionals who have specific needs, so that they can deliver in those formats if that's a client request or if they need it themselves for whatever reason.

Jim Feeley
April 7th, 2017, 11:38 AM
All I know is that many, and perhaps most, of my production work for clients these days includes/requires some slow motion footage. So I'm unlikely to buy a new camera that doesn't offer at least good 60P UHD.

My main hope for NAB: That whatever I see will be available for purchase soon after NAB.

I know... I know...

Jim

Mark Rosenzweig
April 7th, 2017, 01:56 PM
You guess? How can I prove you wrong if you don't even know yourself? I was reacting to your claim that "Most professional videographers do not shoot at 60p" which is ofcourse just like your other statements a guess because you don't know, there is a reason why Sony includes more codec options, bitrates and frame rates in their higher end camera's because they are used by professionals who have specific needs, so that they can deliver in those formats if that's a client request or if they need it themselves for whatever reason.

You are a professional. Do you shoot 4K 60p? As you say it is available in some higher end cameras. If you don't, then you are telling us you do not value that feature very much either. I am not sure what we are disputing. You have not even said you disagree with my guesses about demand for uhd 60p or about what most professionals value, and we do not disagree that uhd 60p is useful.

Noa Put
April 7th, 2017, 02:12 PM
If you don't, then you are telling us you do not value that feature very much either.

Oh, now you also seem to know what I value, or is that another guess? :) I already told you but will repeat again, first of all you didn't mention 60p being used in 4K, you just mentioned "Most professional videographers do not shoot at 60p" to which I reacted, I live in pal country so I shoot 50p all the time and when I get the gh5 I will shoot 4k 50p if needed and otherwise 1080p 50p, I only shoot 25p if I need 4K and if my camera doesn't support 50p.

Pete Cofrancesco
April 7th, 2017, 07:55 PM
Cliff not another GH5 fan boy thread.

Manufacturers often don't directly compete against each other they settle into a particular niche. Why does Sony need to respond to Panny GH5? A7 and GH are entirely different cameras. Pick a system that fits your needs and move on.

Mark I'll bite so pros in broadcast cinema don't use 60p (if that is even true) last time I checked they don't film with prosumer mirrorless cameras. It would then follow feature sets offered would differ. I can only know what I want so who cares about what the "pros" want.

Cliff Totten
April 7th, 2017, 08:27 PM
Cliff not another GH5 fan boy thread.

Manufacturers often don't directly compete against each other they settle into a particular niche. Why does Sony need to respond to Panny GH5? A7 and GH are entirely different cameras. Pick a system that fits your needs and move on.

Mark I'll bite so pros in broadcast cinema don't use 60p (if that is even true) last time I checked they don't film with prosumer mirrorless cameras. It would then follow feature sets offered would differ. I can only know what I want so who cares about what the "pros" want.

@ Noah,...I'm not sure what you mean. Are you trying to say that we all choose a sensor size and we keep all of our spending money in that world? I can tell you that I have a Sony FF A7S-II, APS-C A6300 and I sold my FS5 and just bought my first Micro Four Thirds camera....the GH5.

I have three other Sony friends that also planning to spend their money on a new GH5. Panasonic is giving 10bit color for $2000. Will Sony do that? If not, I dont think people will say "Oh jeesh...I have to stay with Sony 8bit 4k 30p because I am a die hard Super35 shooter....no matter what"

I'm sure you will see allot of Sony guys run to micro four thirds to get 4k, 10bit and 60p

I don't think the market is not loyal to "sensor size" in that way. I think we tend to go to where the features we care about are first. Sensor size is only one feature on a list of a dozen.

So yes,...I strongly believe that the GH5 absolutely "does" compete with Sony models for that limited pie of consumer $$$ I'm literally a perfect example. I'm a die hard Sony adict and I just did it myself!

CT

Pete Cofrancesco
April 7th, 2017, 08:54 PM
The A7 will always have shallower dof, wider angle of view, and greater light sensitivity than the GH. If those factors are important then there is no reason to change. If the intrinsic MFT advantages of weight, cost, and other features are more important then the GH series will always win.

Each camera is built around the sensor so a GH can't be an A7 or vise versa. I could care less what my Sony or Panny friends do with their money.

Cliff Totten
April 7th, 2017, 10:04 PM
You dont care. But Sony and Panny cares....and so does Canon, JVC and BlackMagic. They ALL want our limited money.

Im only asking; "What is Sony going to offer me to persuade me to return my new GH5 and buy another Sony with that money."

Pretty simple. I think Sony will bend on 10bit because of the GH5.

Noa Put
April 8th, 2017, 12:20 AM
@ Noah,...I'm not sure what you mean.

I"m sure you meant @ Pete because you quoted him :) I"m surprised to see how many Canon and Sony owners are getting the GH5, I"m sure it's not for the sensor size but mainly for the codec. Sony will always have their full frame sensor and good low light performance and that will remain a reason why people will continue to buy that camera, the GH5 get's bought to fill a gap Sony has left open so far in their lower priced camera's. That's why I think Sony will not be in a hurry to add any better codecs in anything below the FS7 just like Canon does with the c100II, that camera also doesn't need 4K to keep selling well and they probably also buy b-camera's like the a7sII and the gh5.

Ron Evans
April 8th, 2017, 06:23 AM
You dont care. But Sony and Panny cares....and so does Canon, JVC and BlackMagic. They ALL want our limited money.

Im only asking; "What is Sony going to offer me to persuade me to return my new GH5 and buy another Sony with that money."

Pretty simple. I think Sony will bend on 10bit because of the GH5.

As I said before I want only UHD 60P and I do not think Sony will do that because of the reasons you mentioned. FS7 is the first in their lineup to offer that other than what I already have the FDR-AX1. If you want 10 bit, the PXW-Z100, but both have small sensors ( likely the same sensor in my point and shoot HV30 ) and not good in low light. Also with the addition of the Ninja Inferno at about $1000 the GH5 will get you 10 bit in ProRes for all its frame rates. Still a fraction of the cost of a similarly equipped FS7 and a nice HDR 7" monitor . Be interesting to see what Sony do next or if they prefer to make money off their sensors.

Pete Cofrancesco
April 8th, 2017, 09:32 AM
As far as I'm concerned the A7 codec is minor compared to the other issues, many of them I can't see them fixing.
1. Over heating. I can't have a camera shut down in the middle of shooting.
2. Limitation on continuously filming.
3. Weather sealing, overall durability and longevity.
4. Battery life.
5. Size, weight and cost of the lenses.

Cliff Totten
April 9th, 2017, 10:52 AM
Yeah, the GH5 doesn't overheat or have a 29 minute time limit.

I think it's now time for Sony to put an end to this overheat problem. Even it it means putting a small cooling fan in their bodies. If the next A7/A9 series are slightly larger becasue they have cooling fans. I will gladly accept that if it cae shoot 4k for 3 hours straight with no trouble.

The "DSLR" industry is making a radical shift again. The GH5 is smashing all the marketing crippling tricks that companies used to use to protect video cameras. If Sony doesnt play ball with the GH5 than allot of video guys will leave Sony and go to the GH5.

I'm pretty sure that APS-C and full frame sensor size locked down to 8bit color and low CODEC bit rates will incise video shooter to stay with Sony.

Lemme tell ya....ALLOT of Sony guys will get REALLY jealous when we see the GH5 crowd shooting 10bit 4k at 60p with a full size HDMI port and an internal 400Mbp/s CODEC to dual SD cards on a camera that doesn't overheat and no time limit. It's hard to believe that I typed that all in one sentence!!

Sony had better play ball.

Mark Rosenzweig
April 9th, 2017, 11:51 AM
Yeah, the GH5 doesn't overheat or have a 29 minute time limit.

I'm pretty sure that APS-C and full frame sensor size locked down to 8bit color and low CODEC bit rates will incise video shooter to stay with Sony.

Lemme tell ya....ALLOT of Sony guys will get REALLY jealous when we see the GH5 crowd shooting 10bit 4k at 60p with a full size HDMI port and an internal 400Mbp/s CODEC to dual SD cards on a camera that doesn't overheat and no time limit. It's hard to believe that I typed that all in one sentence!!

Sony had better play ball.

I think you do not understand what is going on with bitrates. This is my understanding (check if I am wrong): the GH5 right now can shoot at "only" 150 Mbps for UHD 60p. That's twice the frame rate but at only 50% over the bitrate compared with UHD 30p. The Sony A7's shoot UHD 30p at 100 Mbps, same as the GH5. The 400 Mbps bitrate is not available now on the GH5 (a promised firmware update), and when it will be available it will be intra, which has far less compression than long GOP so you cannot compare that bitrate to a long GOP one (which is 150 or 100 Mbps). Who knows with light compression whether 400 Mbps is enough. In any case, the bitrates on the GH5 for the new stuff if anything may be too low.

Ron Evans
April 9th, 2017, 12:13 PM
Only had a day to look at my GH5, I intend running mine ( to replace my FDR-AX1 Sony camcorder ) on an Atomos Power Station. Just done a quick test , I let it run for 3 hours and used 1/2 of one of the two batteries in the Power Station. No over heating running at UHD 60P. Doing the test with the internal battery and it lasted about 45 mins before shutting down. Internal battery not useful for my application in the theatre needing at least 90 mins run time so glad I got the Atomos Power Station. Will take me a little time to get used to the different controls to a video camera but most are there in the way I can see. Only thing I wish for at the moment is to see what the camera is using if a parameter is in auto, in particular I will use auto ISO in my application and would like to know what it is setting. I like the way my Sony's show all parameters with (A) next to them if it is in auto. There is about a 7 frame delay in the audio compared to video at the start of the clip. With Custom AF turned off but Continuous AF on it focuses much like my video cameras just about 1 sec slower than the FDR-AX1 when in UHD 60P as far as I can tell from when the peaking indicators lock on. Moving from a subject 18" away to 15 feet away takes about 5 sec to lock compared to just about 4 sec for the FDR-AX1.

As far as bit rates go my FDR-AX1 is also 150Mbps for UHD60P. You cannot just double when you go to 60 from 30 as they are Long GOP codecs and only record the differences. There will be much more movement between frames for a 30P video than a 60P video so the 30P video may need a lot more data to record the difference to the last frame than for 60P. Will totally depend on the subject of course but if there is a lot of movement there will be more issues with the 30P file. If there is little movement then it doesn't matter. If one is concerned about bit rates etc then buy a Inferno and record ProRes or DNxXX and get a nice 7" HDR monitor as well.

Noa Put
April 9th, 2017, 12:15 PM
If Sony doesnt play ball with the GH5 than allot of video guys will leave Sony and go to the GH5.

I don't believe that many sony users will give up a full frame look in favor of a m4/3 sensor look, from what I can see in the gh5 facebook group I am a part of is that the GH5 mainly gets bought as a addition to the camera they are already using. Sony has not much to fear from Panasonic, if there is one trend I am seeing is that Canon 5d mark 3 owners and particularly weddingvideographers are switching to a Sony A7SII.

Noa Put
April 9th, 2017, 12:18 PM
Doing the test with the internal battery and it lasted about 45 mins before shutting down.

I have read the battery runs much longer if you turn off sensor stabilization, when you are on a tripod that needs to be turned of anyway.

Ron Evans
April 9th, 2017, 12:26 PM
I have read the battery runs much longer if you turn off sensor stabilization, when you are on a tripod that needs to be turned of anyway.

Yes I am recharging the battery and will try again with absolute minimum settings. I just wanted to see how long the internal battery would last in normal use. Will report back with everything turned off !!

Mark Rosenzweig
April 9th, 2017, 12:52 PM
As far as bit rates go my FDR-AX1 is also 150Mbps for UHD60P. You cannot just double when you go to 60 from 30 as they are Long GOP codecs and only record the differences. There will be much more movement between frames for a 30P video than a 60P video so the 30P video may need a lot more data to record the difference to the last frame than for 60P. Will totally depend on the subject of course but if there is a lot of movement there will be more issues with the 30P file. If there is little movement then it doesn't matter. If one is concerned about bit rates etc then buy a Inferno and record ProRes or DNxXX and get a nice 7" HDR monitor as well.

You are exactly right about the relationship between bitrates and frame rates with Long GOP codecs. What say you, however, about color sampling and 10bit - does capturing 10bit 4:2:2 require more bitrates than capturing 8bit 4:2:0?

Ron Evans
April 9th, 2017, 01:09 PM
... What say you, however, about color sampling and 10bit - does capturing 10bit 4:2:2 require more bitrates than capturing 8bit 4:2:0?

Yes of course at the same frame rates and colour depth. However my comments were purely like for like 30P and 60P. Doesn't matter whether that is 10 bit 4:2:2 or 8 bit 4:2:0. I am sure the engineers have taken all this into consideration.

Cliff Totten
April 9th, 2017, 01:44 PM
I don't believe that many sony users will give up a full frame look in favor of a m4/3 sensor look, from what I can see in the gh5 facebook group I am a part of is that the GH5 mainly gets bought as a addition to the camera they are already using. Sony has not much to fear from Panasonic, if there is one trend I am seeing is that Canon 5d mark 3 owners and particularly weddingvideographers are switching to a Sony A7SII.

Noa, you are somewhat right. I have and A7S-II that I will be keeping. I also have 5 Sony FF lenses that will stay. However, my A6300 and 4 Sony lenses will likely be sold. I'm waiting to see what Sony will release but it there is nothing 10bit, I will sell all my APS-C gear and keep my GH5.

If Sony DOES release a 10bit E-Mount model, than the GH5 gets returned and I stay a happy Sony shooter. Keeping 8bit on my Sony ENG cameras doesn't bother me.

I'm OK if Sony only outputs 10 over HDMI,...I can live with that. If Sony stays 100% 8 bit only? Than Panasonic is going to get ALL of my new gear budget of about $6,000 this year. This is money that I would have easily given to Sony this year. (including the new Sony "rumored" 400mm zoom lens)

So yeah,...I stay with Sony FF but I sell all my APS-C hardware and buy a GH5 and some new Panny lenses and batteries XLR adapter...etc..

I'm tired of color grading SLOG-2/3 in 8bit!

Ron Evans
April 9th, 2017, 06:13 PM
I have read the battery runs much longer if you turn off sensor stabilization, when you are on a tripod that needs to be turned of anyway.

I have re done the test with everything switched off. Manual everything and lens image stabilizer off . Still cannot find anything in the menu to switch off the in body stabilizer. Made sure the E- Stabilizer was Off. So shooting UHD 60P the battery lasted about 1hour 30 mins before it shut down. I had originally thought about getting the battery grip but I think for my application in the theatre on a tripod the Atomos Power Station that I bought is the correct solution. I am not going to hand hold it to shoot video as I think my AX53 is a better choice for that. Since I do not shoot stills it will spend its life on a tripod. Will likely get a Ninja Inferno to go with it so the setup will work fine on the tripod.

Will try again with everything on as before just to see if I got correct with a full battery the first time. I know I started with a freshly charged battery the second time.

Noa Put
April 10th, 2017, 01:56 AM
Still cannot find anything in the menu to switch off the in body stabilizer.

I believe that is only possible if you have a native m4/3 lens with OIS that has a switch on the lens to turn on/off stabilization, once you turn the stabilization off on the lens it should deactivate the IBIS.

Ron Evans
April 10th, 2017, 05:25 AM
I believe that is only possible if you have a native m4/3 lens with OIS that has a switch on the lens to turn on/off stabilization, once you turn the stabilization off on the lens it should deactivate the IBIS.

Yes when I switched the lens off the red hand OFF appeared in the LCD. Apparently the ability to switch the IBIS on or off only appears when a non Panasonic non OIS lens is attached. Otherwise the switch on the lens performs the action. You get dual IS or none . Will re-do the test with everything on today and report back as I want to make sure I start with a full battery.

Ron Evans
April 10th, 2017, 09:29 AM
I have repeated my first battery test with a fresh battery that was on charge over night so definitely full . With auto ISO, continuous AF on and Dual IS on it went for 1hour 50 mins. Now one has to bear in mind that it was not moving and only really the auto focus was being used to as I moved in front of it. It was just looking at me on the computer. Will clearly use a lot more being moved around.

Simon Denny
April 11th, 2017, 02:23 AM
I'm keeping my A7s as I move onto the GH5, was thinking of selling my Sony gear (body wise) however thought the A7s will come in handy and really it's still a very usable camera for all things.

Jim Stamos
April 11th, 2017, 05:24 PM
Ron can u shoot 4k 60p via the atomos with your ax53? did u consider?

Ron Evans
April 11th, 2017, 05:37 PM
AX53 will not shoot UHD 60P only UHD 30P same as the AX100 which is why I only use both of these at 1920x1080 60P. Not a fan of slow frame rates. I do not yet have the Atomos Inferno but have a Blackmagic Video Assist which will record HD only via HDMI or SDI. This works fine from any of my camcorders. SDI or HDMI from the NX5U , HDMI from the others and will trigger from SDI ,HDMI triggers or tImecode running.

I have tested with setting GH5 HDMI output to 1920x1080 60P when the GH5 is recording UHD60 and the Video Assist works fine triggering from timecode sent by the GH5.

Cliff Totten
April 11th, 2017, 06:25 PM
I hope Sony is NOT going to rely on their customers staying away from the GH5 because it's not full frame.

I'm the biggest Sony guys there is. I'm literally a Sony zombie fanboy. But if Sony's A7S-III doesn't have 10bit HDMI out?....I'm NOT going to buy. I'll keep my A7s-II and uses this years camera budget to apply to my new GH5. Panny gets my money and Sony looses out.

I'm pretty sure there are ALLOT of Sony guys that will do the same thing. I strongly believe that the GH5 WILL compete for the same customer dollars that the A7 series does.

I dont think there is any true "sensor size" loyalty or brand loyalty.

CT

Jack Zhang
April 21st, 2017, 02:26 AM
Well, all we got was 1 UHS-II slot (FINALLY) and dual slot with 1 UHS-II and 1 UHS-I slot.

Still 8bit HDMI and still 4K 30p (with crop factor)

I'm no longer convinced. I'm getting a GH5.

Ron Evans
April 21st, 2017, 07:09 AM
It is nicely priced so that if you really want a video camera you would buy the FS5 and if you wanted UHD 60P then you have to buy the FS7 !!! I think that Sony are a little stuck protecting existing products that lack some features now introduced by Panasonic both with the GH5 and the UX180/ HC-X1. If they bring out competitive products they cannibalize the current product line. They are missing the point that SD cards are fine up to 150 or even 400Mbps with V90 cards and if one needs higher quality then an external recorder with a nice big screen is a better alternative than going to XQD cards !!! It is really strange that 4 years ago Sony introduced the FDR-AX1 ( that I have ) and the PXW-Z100 and all they had to do was update them with the sensors now in the UX180/HC-X1 leaving the specs as they were. I was waiting for this to happen but gave up and have bought the GH5 instead !!! The only time since the Hi8 VX3 I have not updated to a Sony camera. All at this same price point of about $4500. For me moving to an FS7 equipped as I would want is just too much. I wanted UHD60P with touch focus only the Panasonic's give me this yet I would have bought a AX100 variant with UHD60P as I like the feature set on that or the AX53. Strange marketing logic !!!!

Cliff Totten
April 21st, 2017, 11:47 PM
So now we have a great idea of what the A9-S is going to look like. So we only have two more days until we find out but here is my prediction:

Typical 8 bit XAVC-S UHD 100 Mbp/s. Not internal 10bit.

10bit HDMI output at 30p but you cant record 8bit internal while sending 10bit from HDMI

20MP sensor - Almost 6k sensor scan and downsample to 4k in full frame mode and simple 1:1 UHD Super 35 crop mode. 20mp is just about enough to support both modes.

No 29 minute limit.

Heat trouble? Maybe during internal recording but 10bit HDMI output only will run cool.

This should be enough to protect the FS7 and the FS5 upgraded model too.

CT

Jack Zhang
April 23rd, 2017, 04:41 PM
Looks like it's only the A9, and no A9R or A9S.

No 10bit HDMI, and people shooting 4K 30p still have a dreaded crop factor problem.

Sony does not have an answer to the GH5's 10bit and 4K 60p offerings.

Cliff Totten
April 23rd, 2017, 06:17 PM
Wow.....was I seriously wrong or what? Sony is letting the GH5 play all by itself with no Sony 10bit challange.

Something is wrong at Sony. This is the second total Sony NAB bust in a row. Im starting to get worried for them.

Ron Evans
April 23rd, 2017, 07:39 PM
Looks like it's only the A9, and no A9R or A9S.

No 10bit HDMI, and people shooting 4K 30p still have a dreaded crop factor problem.

Sony does not have an answer to the GH5's 10bit and 4K 60p offerings.

Don't have an answer for the UX180/HC-X1 or the DVX200 either. FDR-AX1 and PXW-Z100 are still in the lineup as the only competition that are 4 years old technology. As a Sony fan-- sad. Learning my GH5 now. I have had it for 2 weeks.

Jack Zhang
April 24th, 2017, 01:25 PM
What we can hope is that the next iteration of the A7S and A7R is still in development to answer back, but it looks like we'll have to wait for the announcement of that camera, and hopefully it will have 2 UHS-II slots.