After the show, Sony loaned me the Z450 that they had at NAB for a couple of weeks. I loved it. It was like having a 4K version of my old F800.

Sony PXW-Z450 4K Demo Reel on Vimeo

Wow, incredible footage!
Really shows what the camera is capable of. Thanks for sharing!

What also amazes me is how you manage to find time to gather all that beautiful content in just two weeks. Must be dedication and love for the job.

Thanks for the kind comments guys. Yes, I am guilty of loving my job. I dream of the day when I can chuck all my other work and just shoot this kind of stuff full time while I travel.

Well, a great camera just got better. I got confirmation from Sony a few days ago that the Z450 will get a firmware update later this year to add HLG (Hybrid Log Gamma) and S-LOG3 capabilities. This is great news for those of use who already shoot with HDR cameras (such as the F55, FS7, and FS5) and who understand the tremendous benefits that S-LOG can bring to a production. So, if you want to keep your post-workflow simple and not be bothered with grading — then shoot with a normal Hypergamma Scene File, as I have done in the video above. But if you want to push the boundaries of performance even further, then you’ll be happy that S-LOG and HLG are coming to the Z450 soon. Personally, I am already looking forward to taking the Z450 out for another round of shooting after the update.

Nice.

I think this is the very first Sony ENG camera that has ever offered SLog. Is that right?

Not allot of image sensor specs out there other than 2/3 type. Seems to use a basic 1:1 readout. It's an EXMOR-R design.

Doug, what is your opinion of its higher ISO/gain performance? We have seen "OK" performance from Sony's 1 inch-type 20 megapixel lineup. Those are even decent in SLog-2 at 800 ISO with post noise reduction.

Do you know what the minimum SLog ISO that will be mandatory? Hopefully it will be 800 ISO or something lower.

This will be the smallest sensor that has ever had SLog so its going to be facinating to see how clean this will look. Its only a single Bayer chip too instead of a traditional ENG 3 RGB sensor design.

Very, very interesting. Im curious to see what the dynamic will be too and how it will compare to 1 inch type sensors and others.

Nice work Doug! I see you left New England and came out west to my neck of the woods. Yellowstone is one of my favorite places in the world. I would live in that park if I could. Since I have been there six times (once for work, the others for pleasure) I understand what you put into those shots. I know, even though wildlife is abundant you don't just jump in your car, drive up, and get shots like that. You still have to do the work it takes to make it look that good. Great job. I hope the stock pays great dividends for you!

I also dream of the day when I can shoot when I want and what I want without it being my living. But....I don't buy powerball tickets and shooting for a living has been a great way to earn a living for me. I too, am guilty of loving my job no matter what I am shooting.

Kind Regards,

Steve

@ Cliff

Yes, it is the first ENG camera to offer S-LOG, and it is also the first 2/3" 4K camera as well.

I think the low-light capability was the best I've seen on a professional camcorder. Certainly not in the same class as an A7 mirrorless camera, but I think it's better than any video camera I've used before. In fact, a lot of the wildlife in the video that I posted above were shot well after sunset. For example, the deer at 1:27 was about 15 minutes after sunset; the moose at 2:22 was at least 20 minutes after sunset (I could barely see it with my naked eyes); and the deer at 3:17 was about 15 minutes after sunset. All of those shots are at 0dB. When I'm shooting for stock I never raise my gain above 0db. If it's too dark for 0db then it's too dark to shoot.

However, I did shoot some locked-down test shots where I varied the gain from 0db up to 18db to see how clean it was. It looked great in the viewfinder but I haven't looked at those shots since I got home. I will try to find time to dig them out and and post something.


@ Steven

I try to make it out to Yellowstone at least once every two years and have been there more than 20 times ( I used to live in Utah). There's nothing I'd rather be doing than shooting in Yellowstone or the Tetons. Not only is it different evey time I go, it's different every day. And sometimes every hour. Once my average monthly stock footage sales hit the goal I've set (about half-way there now) I'm going to quit everything else except for teaching workshops and just go out and shoot every day. My version of hanging out the "gone fishing" sign. Maybe I'll see you out there!

BTW, I was even closer than you think to your neck of the woods on this trip. I got some nice footage around Las Cruces, White Sands, El Paso, and Tucson, Saguaro N.P., Kitt Peak, etc. on the way to NAB with my F55. Arizona is a great place for shooting as long as it's not too hot! I think it will be time to hit the Grand Canyon once more on next year's trip. I've got no 4K of it yet!

Excellent Doug,

Any guesses as to what the dynamic range is? I guess its hard to know with rec709 and without an SLog mode yet.

Sony's noise reduction is so damn good these days that i'm sure +9 or +12db are perfectly aceptable.

A7? Yeah, thats a thoroughly unfair and unrealistic low light comparison. The A7s-II has a HUGE, sick, wicked, freak of nature image sensor that sucks in light like a black hole. No other camera will compare to that.

This is interesting. Is this targeted solely at "classic" ENG market? Or, is Sony thinking it could have potential in other areas? (Hence the SLog) traditionally TV news doesnt want to mess with SLog in a live or fast turn arround work flow. It could be usefull to offer a rec709 LUT on the HD SDI output for truck feeds. Maybe you could record SLog internally while giving trasmission control a proper signal for air. Hmmm....yeah, dont think allot of stations would go for that.

Will you be buying this camera for yourself? If so, how would you choose it over your FS7 for various different projects and scenerios?

Very nice.

I don't know what the dymanic range is of the Z450 because I didn't have a chart to test it. But whatever it is today it is going to change this fall anyway when it gets S-LOG and HLG.

I think the market for the Z450 includes anyone who needs 4K but doesn't want to give up the flexibility of a 2/3" ENG camcorder. That includes high-end freelancers, corporate production, and almost every reality show that wants to start future-proofing for 4K. Not everyone will want S-LOG but a lot of people won't buy one without it. I wouldn't buy it without it. More than 50% of the serious customers I spoke to at NAB asked about S-LOG without me saying anything about it first.

Am I customer? If you had asked me before NAB I would have said no. If you asked me after I spent three weeks shooting with it I would have said maybe because I really, really, like getting back to an ENG camcorder. And now that S-LOG is coming, that improves the chances even more. But it's not just the cost of the camera, I'd also have to drop $25K into a really good lens. Two or three years ago this was the camera I was dreaming of -- basically a 4K version of my old F800 with the addition of XAVC 10-bit codecs and S-LOG. But I'm not shooting the same kind of things I was shooting a few years ago (nor do I want to) so it is hard to justify the investment in yet another camera system. However, if my F55 caught fire today I'd probably replace it with a Z450.

Do you have another 2/3" camera with a known sensitivity rating to quick compare it against? Am also interested in how B4 lenses work with the single sensor. I had an HPX600 for a few days, and it's single 2/3" sensor with B4 SD and HD CAC lenses produced horrible results. The left side of the image was always at a different focal point than the center and right side! I do have to say the HPX600 single 2/3" MOS sensor was still f12@2000.

https://youtu.be/-PEMifRrDHI

I'm interested in seeing whether the single-chip Bayer pattern 4K is the way Sony goes - after telling us for decades that 3CMOS/3CCD is better, or if they eventually refine and shrink the triple-chip 4K sensor block technology that they use in, say the HDC-4300 down to a camcorder form factor (and still have reasonable power consumption).

I wasn't able to tell in the test, but whether CMOS readout speeds are now fast enough that rolling shutter is no longer a real issue (which is still one of the reasons why some opt for CCD chips today). Sony has been touting rapid-read CMOS as the solution to this problem, in response to the competition releasing global shutter CMOS sensor models.

Between SD and HD we had lens vendors tell everyone that they needed to get HD-rated glass even though the older lenses were still mechanically and electrically compatible - looking around the posts on here there are many who are successfully running quality SD glass on HD camcorders in real situations (not necessarily test chart conditions) without much discernable difference. Now once again they're promoting UHD glass with an even higher price tag. It looks like most of the demo footage shot was actually on a HD-rated lens and not a UHD-rated lens. Last time around it was the 4:3 vs. 16:9, but this time there is no change in aspect ratio. Worth the premium?

Was the demo unit supplied with the fancy OLED HDVF-EL30? I haven't seen that model myself but is it the same guts as the DVF-EL100 but packaged with a more traditional bracket instead?

Either way, good to see something new pop up in this subforum.

What is the difference between SD, HD and now UHD glass? Like HDMI cables digital is digital but do the dear ones improve quality maybe not.

Ok, after a bit of further reading into this model ... I understand there is currently no way to get live QFHD out of this product at this point?

The marketing materials state that a quad-link SDI option is slated to become available late 2017, but from what I've seen there's no quotable SKU for this option yet... and one of the fine print footnotes states that the HDMI connector cannot do QFHD output, and neither do the fibre or triax adapter backs.
None of the dealers I've spoken with have actually handled or brought in/sold a single Z450 to have this first-hand knowledge (they seem to pitch the F5/F55 with CBK-55BK ENG mount instead).

I'm also suspecting there may be a chance quad-link SDI goes the way dual-link did when 3G became widely adopted by various equipment vendors, as we continue to push the limits of copper cabling.

The camera may have some limited form of UHD output, probably HDMI, but you may be seeing references to something such as 4:2:2 10 bit 60p UHD output. Have you downloaded the operating manual for the UHD upgrade kit or the Z450 itself? Those would have a very detailed description of all menu selections, including the options for video outputs and resolutions. Typically I go to the UK or EU Sony site to find these resources on the product support page, as the US site does not include manuals or firmware on the product pages for some weird reason.

Paul

What is the difference between SD, HD and now UHD glass? Like HDMI cables digital is digital but do the dear ones improve quality maybe not.

MTF I believe. First gen "increased resolution" glass is typically not any better than the latest "last generation" glass. The first generation (Canon HJ15x8BIRS for instance) HD glass if put on a current HD camera, looks like crap, same as an old SD version...blue fringing on highlights, red/green chromatic abberations...icky.

paul

Ok, after a bit of further reading into this model ... I understand there is currently no way to get live QFHD out of this product at this point?

I can't say that I tested 4K output when I had my hands on the Z450, but the operation manual I have says that ir is possible via the SDI connectors (on pages 32-33).

"3840×2160 P output in 3G-SDI Dual Link (2-Sample Interleave Division) format."

it appears to be functional in 60P, 29.97P, 23.98P, 25P, and 50P. But as far as I can see, there is no 4K output at all via HDMI.

What is the difference between SD, HD and now UHD glass?

The Fujinon product managers at NAB told me that there is very little difference between HD and UHD glass at the center. But you may see some aberation, vignetting, or softness around the edges of HD glass on a 4K sensor. I told them thank you, you just saved me a step in post! :-)

SD glass must be of poor quality then. I feel sorry for all those people using vintage glass. ;-)

You can make SD glass look reasonbly good, and resolve pretty 1080p footage, but you would want to ensure you were irised down a bit and not shooting wide open. Also the 2x extenders on SD glass are horrible and unusable. The thing you will see using SD glass on HD cameras, is mostly wider aperature red/green chroma edges in things that are not perfectly in focus, like putting an old manual focus 50mm Nikkor lens on an A7SII.

Paul

SD glass must be of poor quality then. I feel sorry for all those people using vintage glass. ;-)

Using a "vintage" SLR or cinema lens is quite a bit different that using an old standard definition ENG zoom. I still own two ENG lenses that used to be workhorses on my Betacams but I'd never use them on a modern HD or 4K camcorder. I don't feel sorry for those people who can't see the difference, I just wonder why they are so blind.

Since we've kinda gone off about the use of SD lenses ... I do this; and so what I didn't like about the XA16x8A kit lenses that Sony supplies with the PMW/PXW 2/3" is that although it's "HD Rated" - everything is emulated in electronics and it partially relies on communication with the camera to operate correctly - The focus ring is a narrow rotary encoder (even if you click it backwards into the 'manual' position), the parfocal operation, and the aberration correction are all done electronically so if you unplug that 12-pin connector, you'll find that nothing works at all.

At least going "back" to a later model SD lens (this is around the time the vendors started added the "widescreen" labeling and ratio converters to them) it's all implemented in the lens itself: focus is mechanically coupled, and you can use it (without power zoom or iris) even unplugged... which is the way I think people expect ENG lenses to work. So perhaps I traded off some optical acuity and electronic aberration correction support for better ergonomics and a fast zoom servo.

To have all of the above would be nice, but it's still pricey today - and we were discussing really whether it's worth the multi-kilobuck premium here - is it something that people will really truly appreciate when they see images resolved through a HD/UHD lens that will make that all worth it? Moreover, even if I were in the used market for these ... are people or organizations even buying many of these new for there to even be much of a second-hand market later? Chatting with the sales reps at the few broadcast dealers around here (Western Canada), none of them have moved a Z450 since it has been available for sale. They sell HDC4300s to the production truck market however - but from the sounds of it, the customers that demand 4K/QFHD capability from Sony aren't really married to the 2/3" mount or traditional form factor requirement and are more willing to consider FS7 or F5/F55 models or any of the fixed package camcorder options. To me I love the backwards compatibility and the fact that any of this parts swap even works - not only the lens mount but things like wireless slot-in receivers, battery packs, and viewfinders that all have some level of forwards and backwards compatibility across generations so you can build and upgrade your kit piecemeal without needing to assemble "rigs" with velcro-attached accessories or cheese plates and such.

I had a chance to compare the A18x7.6 to a HA18x7.6 for example (which although both older models now, seems to be the logical successor) and found very little discernible difference and if that, only on test charts. Physically both were identical on the outside apart from the HD badging.

Also back to the 4K output over SDI with my earlier question - it looks like it is in fact possible, and there is equipment that supports the multi-link connection.
Vislink published a blog and twitter post showing their live microwave transmitter in action and, it appears that all the output connectors have to be used. (Also that doesn't look like a UHD rated lens either.)

https://www.vislink.com/a-testing-day/
https://twitter.com/Vislink/status/887683293805760512

For those interested, Sony specs the Z450 at f10/11@2000 NTSC/PAL, vs the f12/f13@2000 NTSC/PAL of the 3MOS X400 sensor.

Paul

Doug, on the Z450, did you use "normal" viewfinder peaking? I am trying to confirm if the new Z280 has detail edge sharpening peaking mode, and the engineer at NAB I spoke with on the phone could only say that it has the same peaking "as the Z450".

Paul

Hi Paul,

Was that you speaking to a Sony guy on the phone yesterday ( BTW, I don't think he is an engineer) while he was looking at peaking on the new Z280? I was standing right next to him and I really wanted take the phone and speak directly to whomever was on the other end. Was that you?

Anyway, I'm not sure exactly what you are asking here right now, but yes, the Z280 has "normal" peaking with all the standard controls for customizing it that you'd expect to find on any pro camera from Sony. It works great and there is nothing about it that I would change even if I had the power to do so. It looks great, is very subtle if you want it to be, and has never failed me. Perfect. It's the same peaking as is used on the Z450 and even the Z190 with the exact same menu controls. Both of these two new cameras have their roots in the XDCAM family so are chock full of professional features that are not found on some other cameras that have come out of Sony's prosumer NXCAM line.

Of course, if someone wants to use that horrid "colored" peaking mode, then they can do turn that on instead, but I'd seriously question their sanity for doing so.

It used to be the telltale between the VF detail-circuit based peaking and the lower resolution 'coloured' peaking (which can also be set to white, and is the only type available on the consumer models) was that the edges of the superimposed text also had peaking applied to it, whereas the peaking generated in-camera happens before the super text. Is that still the case on these brand new models?

Yes Doug, that was me! :-D

Doug, do you think a 1/2" 4K 3MOS PXW-Z320 sensor block could outperform a single 2/3" 4K sensor?

Paul

I can't comment on what might be possible, but I can tell you that the 1/2" 4K 3-CMOS PXW-Z280 sensor block does not outperform the single 2/3" 4K sensor on the Z450. The Z280 has a very nice image, but it is not in the same league as the Z450.

The 1" Sony sensor cameras have never looked amazingly great to me...my 3MOS X180 in HD looked better than my X70 and Z150, even in 4K, so I find it so surprising what Sony seems to have been able to accomplish with the smaller sensor in the Z450. Perhaps the lens is the huge difference, maybe also Sony throws Cinealta color science at the more expensive camera.

Paul