We shoot with AX100 GH4 and G80.

Our main go to Camera for the last 3 years has been the AX100 for it's ease of use. We are currently reviewing our set up and would like something similar to the AX100 with potentially better low light ability (this is when we revert to GH4 and G80)

We shoot Fusion weddings both stills and Photography and my wife shoots the video. With the AX100 having been about for a while and there doesn't to my knowledge appear to be an upgrade in the pipeline which may be worth considering.

Is there any other Camera/camcorder worth looking at that isn't to big or complex (Ala AX100) that is worth considering. Decent AF and ease of use essential. Budget preferably under 2000 UKP

Any advice appreciated

There isn't a lot out there since the "consumer" video camera niche seems to have vaporized....

The RX10M2 and M3 use an improved version of the 1" class sensor in the AX100, so you'd get some performance improvement and get the same type of quality image, but you'd lose the video camera form factor. You would need to add the systweak hack to bypass the 29 minute clip limit, and there are pros and cons to each camera, but as far as an "upgrade"path, sadly, that's about it from Sony.

I don't know why the "Handycam" division (is there even still a Handycam division?!) hasn't created an "AX100M2" with the updated sensor, updated Bionz processing, etc., but perhaps they just feel that any market out there would be too small to produce a return on investment. Cell phones really beat the snot out of the "consumer" camera (still and video) market...

There are a few good used RX's out there for decent prices, as there was a pretty big migration to GH5's recently - i got a nice used RX10M3 from one such upgrader.... while it would bust your budget, the GH5 does look pretty nice <wink>...

Thanks for the reply Dave.

I have to consider ease of use for my wife who is not as techy as some of us lads. The AX100 was an excellent pick up and go, she has mastered the manual side of things, ala, WB, exposure etc which is all very usable on the AX100.

The GH5 does fit into my budget (just) but I am not as sure about ease of use or AF reliability for the wife, we dig out the GH4 or G80 when the receptions or ceremony's are lower light but use them on tripods with manual focus etc, not so much run and gun.

If you have the gh4 then you know how the gh5 will be like to handle as it will be the same, none of the current dslr's have the ease of use that you have with a handycam like a ax100. There is not that much out there in a handicam form that is better then the ax100 at it's current pricepoint, you might want to look into the panasonic fz1000/2000, from what I heard they are very decent low light and are easy to operate, you could ask Roger Gunkel or Chris Harding as both have these camera's.

It's too bad that it looks like not much further development is done in the handicam section, a ax100II with better low light performance and better inbody stabilization would be great but I think that will never happen, the ax100 might be the last of it's kind. Maybe they"ll update the x70 but then you are looking at a much higher pricetag.

PXW-Z150 seems like the big brother to the AX100. New price is $3,200 but maybe you can find a good deal on a used one.

I thought the AX100 was the one that slipped through the crack, as Sony marketing didn't cripple it, rather it had lots of pro features, though it was initially classified as a consumer camera due to its codec. I still get plenty of use out of the two I bought. Compared to my older cameras, it has decent low light sensitivity, but can't compete with some of the newer cams, like the FS7.

Mark

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1222976-REG/sony_pxw_z150_4k_xdcam_camcorder.html

Thanks Noa

We have throughly enjoyed the AX100 and will continue to do so, it does however not perform so well in low light for my threshold, around 9 DB is all we push it to in low light.

I am not sure if the Panasonic FZ are noticeably better I will do some research

I was hoping there may be a m4/3 quality sensor in camcorder format that may be worth looking at.

Thanks Mark

The PXW-Z150 is 3K in the UK, I would be wanting more than a 1 inch sensor for that money I think.

It looks like I will be choosing from the mirror less options at present

Hi Phil

The FZ2000/2500 would be a LOT better in low light! However they are still the DSLR form factor and tricky to use and operate compared to a camcorder so if you want camcorder convenience then forget anything that looks like a DSLR ..sadly you will never get the ease of use that a proper video camera can give.

I still get immense pleasure using my Panasonic MDH2/AC-8 shoulder mount camera when we live stream weddings ..I have never got used to the DSLR zoom and the rocker zoom is brilliant!! Sadly whilst the AC-8 has awesome features like dual slots, good AF and batteries that last the entire wedding it doesn't have 4K and the best you can get is 1080 50P !! But despite the silly cheap price results are almost as good as my FZ's (I have three!) and just so easy and stress free to use compared to the other cameras !

You are probably better off just keeping the AX100!!

An RX10M2 or RX10M3 is the obvious addition to an AX100 as they use a similar sensor but with better low light performance. They don't have the same ease of use as a camcorder but are more like a camcorder than a M43 with a fixed lens & power zoom (24-200mm equivalent on RX10M2 & 24-600mm on RX10M3). It will be much easier to match colour & look too.

It is a shame that Sony haven't updated the AX100 as it is a joy to use with a great image. The low light performance is all that needs improving not that it's terrible but just we all expect to be able to shoot by candlelight nowadays.

Hi Chris

Thanks, we will keep the AX100 but we had a steady flow of work through the winter last year and with the murky UK weather often the AX100 was not an option, we also find it a little lacking at the wide end in tight scenerios.

Thanks Nigel

It looks like it is boiling down to either the Panasonic FZ's or the Sony RX10's. My only issue is the 30 minute recording limit.

There is no hurry so I will look into these models

Trouble is small handycams with their smaller sensors aren't built to handle low-light. For that you need larger sensors and then it's a big plus for the interchangeable lens cameras. Though you alas sacrifice the run n gun aspect of it. If you want better low-light than handycams, then something like the Panasonic DVX200 is a better upgrade. Though you're paying a lot more for it.

Thanks Nigel

It looks like it is boiling down to either the Panasonic FZ's or the Sony RX10's. My only issue is the 30 minute recording limit.

There is no hurry so I will look into these models

The FZ2000 does not have a record limit and does have ND filters.

RX10 recording time hack works great. Also nice that they actually have picture controls unlike the AX100. You'd have to buy some speedy glass with an interchangeable lens camera to get 24-200mm at F2.8 all the way through. That's more than a stop faster than the handycam.

I have a sony rx10 but the first generation, it's collecting dust right now as I did like the footage it produces in good light but the image fell apart when the lights went down.

https://www.cinema5d.com/sony-alpha-hack/

As several have posted, open memories tweak (hack) works to bypass the 29 minute limit on SONY... it's not hard to install, and has worked fine for my RX's - the RX100M4/5 still overheats too rapidly for long form uses in 4K mode due to it's tiny size (1080p seems OK as it generates less heat), but the RX10M2/M3 run happily without issue. I don't think the hack will work on the first RX10 version.... the RX10M2 and M3 offer some interesting options though.

Apparently Panny already dropped that silly clip limit "feature" on the FZ2500? I've been tempted to pick one up, but my forays into the Panasonic lines have been less than satisfying... and I've stuck with Sonys.



Once you spend a little time with the different form factor, a camera is a camera for the most part, and to shoot 4K you need to be using manual settings for best results anyway. I shot stills with my AX100 several times, and of course video with my RX's - in the end I shoot more with the RX's, just because the Sensor/processor tech has continued to update while "Handycam" has withered away on the vine....


The AX100 was a breakthrough camera, still very valid for what it is and does... unfortunately, I fear the "breakthrough" was into a market now entirely dominated by little candy bars that do everything, including take the occasional phone call... I see even "RED" is now entering that "market"... strange days....

Phil - (and anyone else): Why not have two cameras for for the wife’s work, one being the current AX100 camcorder (which you already own and are familiar with) and the second being a camera? Use the AX100 when the light is good then when it goes down switch over to a camera.

With the different lighting conditions, brighter earlier in the day and darker in the evening, it wouldn’t be quite so important to match the look, and, particularly in the winter months, one would be indoors so a camera would be easier to use when moving around the room(s).

Just thinking.

Disclaimer: Being a little biased, I’d hate to give up the AX100.
@ Dave: speaking of candy bars, I find I use mine every so often because it's usually readily available in my pocket, and yes, it's a real sweet iPhone.

Thanks to everyone for all of your input

I had never planned to get rid of the AX100, but wanted to see if there was an upgrade or something that competes with it but giving better low light performance with the same form factor. It seems I will either have to spend several thousand pounds on a pro camcorder or settle for a Bridge/mirrorless option, which of course are very good but without the ease of use of the AX100.

The FZ1000 is a good low cost 1" sensor alternative to the RX10M2 or RX10M3. It may be an advantage (or not) that in video mode the 35mm lens equivalent is 37 - 592mm so you lose out on the wide end but gain on the telephoto.

I gave up doing video & photography professionally three years ago & sold all my Canon DSLR gear. Now I shoot mainly stills for fun I find the 1" sensor cameras give just the right balance between convenience, portability & image quality. I use both an RX10M2 & an FZ1000. They each have their advantages although I am seriously considering selling them both & buying an RX10M3 although on past performance I am more likely just to end up with all three:-)

Thanks Nigel
The wide end is concerning otherwise I would certainly consider the FZ.
The RX10 is more to my liking I thinkmbut would prefer the MK2 with constant 2.8 aperture.

Thanks Nigel
The wide end is concerning otherwise I would certainly consider the FZ.
The RX10 is more to my liking I thinkmbut would prefer the MK2 with constant 2.8 aperture.

I believe that the RX10M3 operates at constant F/2.4 over at least the 24-200mm range of the RX10M2. The RX10M3 operates over an amazing 24-600mm equivalent so it's unsurprising that there is some compromise with the smaller aperture at the long end. One advantage of the RX10M2 is that it is cheaper than the RX10M3. Here in the UK the RX10M3 is about £1249 while the RX10M2 is £849. The FZ1000 is a real bargain at £529 while the FZ2000 is £999.

Thanks Nigel

Has the FZ2000 got the same wide angle restrictions as the FZ1000?

I think I would be happy with either of these the FZ1000 for the price and the Sony RX10 mk111 for that huge range

Thanks Nigel

Has the FZ2000 got the same wide angle restrictions as the FZ1000?

I think I would be happy with either of these the FZ1000 for the price and the Sony RX10 mk111 for that huge range
The FZ2000 is pretty much the FZ1000 but with a 20x zoom lens & unlimited recording time. In 4K video it's a 36 - 720mm 35mm equivalent but if you shoot 1080p HD it's 25 - 500mm with OIS off & 27 - 540mm with OIS on.

The RX10M2 has a built in ND filter whereas the RX10M3 does not. The Sony models are weather proofed & feel more substantial in the hand while the FZ1000 (& presumably th FZ2000 although I have never held one) feels a bit 'plasticky'.

As you can see there there is no clear winner as they all have pros & cons but whichever you choose I think you will be happy with them. I am a big fan of the 1" sensor now as it gives a great compromise between small portable all-in-one cameras they need no lens swaps while still having decent image quality & low light performance. If I were shooting weddings today I would use all 1" sensor cameras probably the PXW-X70 with a 4K upgrade as this is the 'pro' version of the AX1000 with three control rings etc then I would probably use a couple of RX10M2s & a RX10M3 all with the unlimited recording hack.