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Brian Rhodes
September 26th, 2017, 08:31 PM
https://www.brianrhodes.tv/single-post/2017/09/26/Panasonic-GH5-firmware-update-20




The new firmware includes following upgrades:


1.Compatibility with “LUMIX Tether” PC software


This new firmware enables GH5 tethered shooting via USB, using “LUMIX Tether” PC software. Users can control the camera by connecting it to a PC via USB. It lets you view the image on a large PC screen while shooting, which is helpful in commercial photoshoots of portraits, products and so on, where continuous confirmation is required. You can use [6K PHOTO] [4K PHOTO] and start and stop video recording with the tethered shooting. It is also possible to choose the folder to save the image files in the PC.


1.Improved auto focus performance


-Auto focus performance for subjects with low contrast in photo shooting is improved.

-Tracking auto focus performance in video recording is improved.

-The customized AF area can be continuously displayed in [Multi AF] and [Custom Multi AF] during live-view.

-The AF area in [Multi AF] can be moved to the other edge (side, top or bottom) when it reaches one edge.

-The start point of AF lock can be set on the live view screen in advance in [AF Tracking].

-The AF area can be moved while the shutter button is half-pressed or while recording in [Burst Mode], [6K PHOTO] and [4K PHOTO].

1.Improved performance in [6K PHOTO] and [4K PHOTO]


-The waiting time to start the next burst shooting sequence after [6K Burst] and [4K Burst] is shortened to less than half the time.

-[Loop Rec] is available in [6K PHOTO]

•Use of Panasonic SD Memory Card with Video Speed Class 90 is recommended for [Loop Rec] of [6K PHOTO].


1.An additional ALL-Intra Video Recording mode


-4:2:2,10-bit ALL-Intra video recording mode is added to 4K/FHD video recording.

•Use of SD Memory Card with Video Speed Class 60 or higher is recommended for 4K ALL-Intra video recording. Operation is confirmed with Panasonic SD Memory Card with Video Speed Class 90.


New 4:2:2,10-bit ALL-Intra Recording Mode




1.4K HDR video recording


-[HLG] (Hybrid Log Gamma) is added to [Photo Style]. HDR (High Dynamic Range) is a mode to reproduce both the brightest and darkest part in an image, making it look just as human eyes see. The camera records video with a designated gamma curve compatible with ITU-R BT.2100, and you can now choose Hybrid Log Gamma (HLG) in [Photo Style].

-A low-bit-rate recording mode 4K HEVC for HLG was added. This enables playback on AV equipment compatible with the HEVC compression format, such as Panasonic 4K HDR TVs.

6.Enhancement of the Anamorphic video recording mode

-High-Resolution Anamorphic mode, which enables video recording in 18-mega effective pixels, is added. *Recorded in HEVC

New High-Resolution Anamorphic Mode

*1 “High Resolution Anamorphic Mode” records motion picture with an aspect ratio suited for an anamorphic lens,4:3. The effective picture size for this mode is equivalent to the number of pixels produced by 6K (approx. 6,000 (horizontal) x 3,000 (vertical)) images (approx. 18 megapixels).




*2 High resolution Anamorphic mode

-[Anamorphic Desqueeze Display] was added, which lets you view an enlarged image in Cinescope size while recording with 2.0x and 1.33x Anamorphic lens.

-[Video Guide Line] is added to display the image in a variety of aspects, such as 2.39:1, 2.35:1, 16:9, and 1:1 while recording video. This can be used not only in Anamorphic mode but also in other video recording modes.

7.Enhancement of Body I.S. (Image Stabilizer)

-[I.S. Lock(video)] is added. This powerfully compensates for handshake when the viewing angle is fixed.

-A new handshake correction mode is added, which provides optimum correction when using 2.0x and 1.33x Anamorphic lens.

8.Correction of white balance setting

-When the K (Kelvin) value was changed after adjusting the color temperature with 2-axis white balance compensation, the setting was reset. This bug has been fixed.

9.Improved usability of Time Lapse Shot

-The time to finish shooting and the number of recordable pictures are displayed on the stand-by screen.

10.Improved usability of Power Save LVF

-Power Save LVF can now be used during all stand-by display options.

11.Wireless functions

-The Bluetooth Remote Control function can be used with Image App, which will also be updated at the same timing with the GH5 firmware release.

Steve Burkett
September 27th, 2017, 03:38 AM
All downloaded and installed. Looking forward to trying out the apparently improved AF on this Saturday's Wedding. Plus may see how the new 400Mbps codec holds on my V60 card on some non critical shots. Though suspect a V90 card will be the ultimate order of the day for that. Nice to get the 2-35 guidelines finally. Just need to disable the display button and remove that annoyance from my filming and I'm all set for the weekend. :)

Steven Schuldt
September 27th, 2017, 10:39 AM
Great news, thanks for posting! Will be interested to see if my last-gen SanDisk Extreme Pro cards work at all with the new ALL-I. If not, it will be interesting to see how it fails.

Also looking for hot tips on reliable V90 cards that are alternatives to the insanely-priced Panasonics. $500 for the 128GB card!? I don't think so...

EDIT: Just bought a couple of these 128GB Delkin Cinema SDXC UHS-II (U3/V90) cards (https://www.amazon.com/Delkin-Cinema-UHS-II-Memory-DDSDUHS2128G/dp/B01MREKTRC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1506530837&sr=8-2&keywords=Delkin+V90). I'll post to let people know how they perform after I receive and test them.

Phil Lee
September 27th, 2017, 12:56 PM
Hi

A few oddities I've noticed and posted elsewhere about. By default on my camera anyway it had set under economy a 1 second turn off which was triggered when pressing the [DISP] button and seeing the summary settings page, this made me think it was crashing out, it even did this when recording a video, so if accidentally touching that button and moving to that menu would see the camera shut down. What a strange setting, and I can't understand it's purpose or reason for being. It can be turned off this economy mode.

The other thing is the [DISP] lock doesn't seem to work under Operation Locks, I thought that would finally mean I wasn't constantly hitting it and changing the display, but it seems not to lock that button, so perhaps we mis-understood the change.

Regards

Phil

Steve Burkett
September 27th, 2017, 01:15 PM
The other thing is the [DISP] lock doesn't seem to work under Operation Locks, I thought that would finally mean I wasn't constantly hitting it and changing the display, but it seems not to lock that button, so perhaps we mis-understood the change.



It's more complicated than that. You have to switch on Operation Lock, which you can assign to a FN Button. I have mine set to Fn1. If you scroll down the options for assigning control to these Fn buttons, one of the options on Page 3 is Operation Lock. Once this function has been assigned, you can switch on Operation Lock and switch it off by pressing this function button.

Be aware though that anything listed in the Operation Lock Settings is also locked, so if Cursor, Joystick and Touch Screen is On as mine was, then these will be locked as well. However I have kept those set to Off and only Display to On. So now when I press Fn1, only the Display is toggled off and on.

Brian Rhodes
September 27th, 2017, 01:58 PM
Great news, thanks for posting! Will be interested to see if my last-gen SanDisk Extreme Pro cards work at all with the new ALL-I. If not, it will be interesting to see how it fails.

Also looking for hot tips on reliable V90 cards that are alternatives to the insanely-priced Panasonics. $500 for the 128GB card!? I don't think so...

EDIT: Just bought a couple of these 128GB Delkin Cinema SDXC UHS-II (U3/V90) cards (https://www.amazon.com/Delkin-Cinema-UHS-II-Memory-DDSDUHS2128G/dp/B01MREKTRC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1506530837&sr=8-2&keywords=Delkin+V90). I'll post to let people know how they perform after I receive and test them.

The Adata V90 SDXC cards work 128gb $159.00 256gb $299.00
ADATA Premier ONE 128GB SDXC UHS-II U3 Class10 V90 3D NAND 4K 8K Ultra HD 290MB/s SD Card (ASDX128GUII3CL10-C)

Phil Lee
September 27th, 2017, 02:42 PM
Hi

It's more complicated than that. You have to switch on Operation Lock, which you can assign to a FN Button. I have mine set to Fn1. If you scroll down the options for assigning control to these Fn buttons, one of the options on Page 3 is Operation Lock. Once this function has been assigned, you can switch on Operation Lock and switch it off by pressing this function button.

Be aware though that anything listed in the Operation Lock Settings is also locked, so if Cursor, Joystick and Touch Screen is On as mine was, then these will be locked as well. However I have kept those set to Off and only Display to On. So now when I press Fn1, only the Display is toggled off and on.

Ah I did wonder if I was missing something, that makes sense thank you.

The Adata V90 SDXC cards work 128gb $159.00 256gb $299.00
ADATA Premier ONE 128GB SDXC UHS-II U3 Class10 V90 3D NAND 4K 8K Ultra HD 290MB/s SD Card (ASDX128GUII3CL10-C)

Because the V30, 60, 90 define a new SD protocol and guaranteed minimum write speeds, rather than dubious marketing maximums, it should be the case now that all V90 cards will work fine, assuming they are genuine brands.

The prices will start to come down however because V90 requires high performance and top quality NAND memory and new controllers/firmware to support the new SD version for video (i.e.it isn't just a new sticker they can stick on existing top performing cards), prices will probably remain high for some time.

Regards

Phil

Steven Schuldt
September 27th, 2017, 07:43 PM
The Adata V90 SDXC cards work 128gb $159.00 256gb $299.00
ADATA Premier ONE 128GB SDXC UHS-II U3 Class10 V90 3D NAND 4K 8K Ultra HD 290MB/s SD Card (ASDX128GUII3CL10-C)

Nice! Cancelled the order for the Delkins and have ordered a 256GB ADATA.

Steven Schuldt
September 27th, 2017, 09:47 PM
I can capture about 8-10 seconds of video shooting ALL-I 400 10bit HLG Cinema 24p DCI 4K resolution on my GH4-era SanDisk Extreme Pro cards with the new firmware. After that an alert pops up complaining of insufficient card speed and recording terminates.

I did a couple of tests of short, 3-second recordings and it looks spectacular. Will see if the ADATA V90 card I've ordered can reliably handle ALL-I when it arrives this weekend.

Noa Put
September 28th, 2017, 04:23 PM
The highlight of this 2.0 update for me is the I.S. lock and the ability to control the ISO with the back dial like Sony camera's can, I have just installed the firmware and noticed the IS lock is very effective, I was able to keep my 40-150 Olympus lens handheld almost appear like on tripod @ 150mm.

Phil Lee
September 29th, 2017, 01:13 AM
Hi

I found the same, it does hold the image really steady, the only negative is move a little too much for it to cope with and it snaps back and re-frames, of course that can't be fixed as it's the limit of how much it can correct for movement. The irony of course is you don't know you are slowly reframing because the image is static in the viewfinder/monitor. Would be good if they added a little graphic like a target so you could keep correcting.

Enable electronic video stabilisation as well and it's virtual tripod!

Regards

Phil

Noa Put
September 29th, 2017, 02:00 AM
That IS lock is going to be invaluable when I take headshots handheld with my 75mm f1.8 olympus lens at weddings, I was able to keep it quite steady before but there was always a little swaying going on, from what I have seen so far IS lock prevents that from happening giving me rock solid footage. As I only need a few seconds from each person I shoot I can deal with eventual reframing and wait until I get the right shot. I would not use it however for longer continuous shots but to just get my b-roll while I am on the move.

Phil Lee
September 29th, 2017, 07:13 AM
Yes perfect for that use case, it would look like a tripod shot!

Cary Knoop
September 29th, 2017, 08:02 AM
Yes, the IS lock is wonderful, I have permanently assigned the front button near the lens for this function.

Steve Burkett
September 29th, 2017, 09:38 AM
Yes, the IS lock is wonderful, I have permanently assigned the front button near the lens for this function.

Cheers for that tip; I've done the same. So far really impressed with the new features from the tests I have done so far and can't wait to use them officially for tomorrows Wedding.

For all it's faults and the GH5 has a few still, there's no denying this is a camera that already stood head and shoulders above competition and is now even better. So well done for Panasonic for offering this and for not daring to charge a fee for the upgrade. :)

Alex Anderson
September 29th, 2017, 04:35 PM
Now that this new firmware is out and people have had some time to do some tests to evaluate the new 400 mbs, can anyone honestly say they really do see a difference in 4k 10 bit 422 at 400 mbs for most average styles of shooting and post? Also, can anyone honestly say they see a difference between the 8 bit 420? I understand that there is a more data for extreme color grading/correction, but if we shoot in camera close to what we want or just do a small amount of color grading/correction, do you still think we need the 10 bit 422 at 400 mbs?

Steve Burkett
September 29th, 2017, 06:55 PM
Be fair Alex, its only been a few days with the new update to make any snap judgements one way or another. Besides what do you call minimum colour grading. I find 8 bit calls apart even with the application of 1 LUT.

What do you call average shooting, please define?

All-Intra has a few advantages over Long Gop. It is easier to edit with as it requires less processing power to playback in software. Detail in motion can be better recorded due to individual frames being recorded rather than multiple frames. So if you're moving the camera a lot, motion cadence can be better. Further tests will have to be done to fully demonstrate how much an improvement this brings. However static scenes would hardly yield much improvement. I plan to record a few scenes soon in the new codec and see how it looks. Obviously shooting 10 bit gives us the HLG picture profile not available in 8 bit. I'm looking forward to seeing how that works. Again it'll be several weeks, maybe a month or so before I can make any firm conclusions as to the full benefits of the various codecs on offer with the GH5.

I frankly think its too soon for anyone to honestly say if they see a difference. You say we've had sometime to do some tests. Really!! 2 days is sometime for you. I've still not got past testing my cards on how it holds on recording 400Mbps, let alone playing back and grading the damn thing. :)

Alex Anderson
September 29th, 2017, 09:48 PM
Steve, I know it has been out for a few days and I do not think I am being unfair. I would bet many people started testing the minute they installed it and can see within minutes after getting some new footage. Not days weeks or months. The question of "is there any difference with 400mbs" has been on evryone's mind. If it's too early, then I don't mind waiting. .

I consider a few few tweaks, like contrast, saturation, hue and levels as minimum color work like we have been doing for many years compared to heavy color work like in Resolve and applying masks and so one to every shot. I consider average shoots like home videos, weddings, docs, etc compared to full blown productions for full length movies heading to theater release.

I really do not want to debate anything except hear from users of the GH5 " yes it is much better or no, there is no visible difference". If you need weeks or months to do tests, then we all can wait to hear your verdict. Let's hear from others when they come to a decision to my original question. There was no need for you to start questioning when I ask my question or what I consider minimum color work or average shooting. My question was only about "do you see a difference" and the only answers that apply are yes or no. If anyone needs more time, then take the time and reply after a personal decision.

FTR- I have already seen on other forums and web pages people talking about this and what they think. A google search helps.

Be fair Alex, its only been a few days with the new update to make any snap judgements one way or another. Besides what do you call minimum colour grading. I find 8 bit calls apart even with the application of 1 LUT.

What do you call average shooting, please define?

All-Intra has a few advantages over Long Gop. It is easier to edit with as it requires less processing power to playback in software. Detail in motion can be better recorded due to individual frames being recorded rather than multiple frames. So if you're moving the camera a lot, motion cadence can be better. Further tests will have to be done to fully demonstrate how much an improvement this brings. However static scenes would hardly yield much improvement. I plan to record a few scenes soon in the new codec and see how it looks. Obviously shooting 10 bit gives us the HLG picture profile not available in 8 bit. I'm looking forward to seeing how that works. Again it'll be several weeks, maybe a month or so before I can make any firm conclusions as to the full benefits of the various codecs on offer with the GH5.

I frankly think its too soon for anyone to honestly say if they see a difference. You say we've had sometime to do some tests. Really!! 2 days is sometime for you. I've still not got past testing my cards on how it holds on recording 400Mbps, let alone playing back and grading the damn thing. :)

Steve Burkett
September 29th, 2017, 10:16 PM
Well from the little comments I have read, there is a difference, but I am not sure that post on Facebook or even anything searched via Google are pretty reliable. :) . Personally I prefer to record with the new codec on a variety of situations and jobs, and spend time with the footage before making judgement. I would question the opinions on anyone who feel they can reliably comment on the new codec so soon after installing the firmware. Most are still trying to find reliable cards to record it without it timing out or dropping frames.

That said, if anyone has already done extensive tests, filmed a few average shoots with the new codec and done some basic colour grading, I would be interested in the feedback. I'm hoping to test it this weekend, but a busy workload means I may not be able to fully explore it till all my Wedding shoots tail off and give me some down time to play with the footage. :)

Gary Huff
September 29th, 2017, 11:54 PM
I would question the opinions on anyone who feel they can reliably comment on the new codec so soon after installing the firmware.

I can reliably comment on the new codec because it isn't new. It's similar to the C300 Mark II, in that it's H.264 LongGOP vs Intra. The bitrate is even the same at 4K. You don't see a visual difference. The difference is that you trade-off larger file sizes for ease of editing. You'll hit motion judder before you hit any kind of issue with LongGOP codecs.

Alex Anderson
September 30th, 2017, 12:14 AM
Thanks Steve. I look forward to your findings after you have had more time with it.

Gary, I am wondering about the 400mbs making a big difference compared to shooting 4k shot at 8 bit, 420 around 100 or so mbs. Not counting the color grading or green screen benefits. Can professionals see any difference.

Phil Lee
September 30th, 2017, 04:37 AM
Hi Alex

The difference is going to be subtle if at all, and even then it will only be seen on the original files. Any delivery of the finished output will be GOP anyway I would think, undoing any benefits of motion cadence if they were visible to start with.

It's more about helping the edit, competing with other cameras (the numbers game), and making the camera more film like in operation, even if in principal it's not make much difference.

Also it should be noted that Long GOP on the GH5 isn't really Long GOP, it's just GOP, its group of pictures just covers one second (so 24 or 60 in a group) whereas Long GOP used to be used to describe much more compressed internet streamed video which could see a group of pictures being 250 or more and so has a bad reputation. At 150Mbits/sec at 4K with a GOP stretching just 1 second on modern processors like in the GH5 is pretty good, and the codec can encode the first I frame in a GOP at quality much above that used on All-Intra for every single frame. All-Intra is extremely wasteful of bandwidth.

Regards

Phil

Cliff Totten
September 30th, 2017, 06:41 AM
If you are shooting a rec709-ish profile in thr camera and it's 98% the look you want, than just shoot 8bit 100mbp/s..

I have found that the 10bit 150mbp/s CODEC breaks like a cheap wine glass when using VLog in it. When normalizing VLog to rec709 the shadows macro block quickly and blue sky gradients block up pretty nasty. Even motion studders too much.

Remember, h.264 will sacrifice the shadows first to protect the mid tones.

Unfortunaty, the 10bit 150mbp/s CODEC is waaaay too compressed. It has the burden of twice the chroma resolution and arround 40 times more color palette and it's only got a 50mbp/s increase to carry all of that. So, when h.264 gets stressed by its bitrate ceiling, you begin to block up in the dark elements first. Those pixels get grouped into larger and larger clusters with single color values.

So far, the 400mbps holds strong. I have only about 1 hour of VLog footage testing with it but its looking pretty durable so far. Even motion looks smoother too. I think that 10bit 400mbps will be the "go to" codec for VLog and 8bit 100 for "general purpise" rec709 stuff.

Im staying away from that 150 CODEC. Its just too fragile for VLog.

Gary Huff
September 30th, 2017, 07:05 AM
Gary, I am wondering about the 400mbs making a big difference compared to shooting 4k shot at 8 bit, 420 around 100 or so mbs. Not counting the color grading or green screen benefits. Can professionals see any difference.

A blind A/B comparison between the exact same shots in 4K 8-bit 4:2:0 100Mbps and 4K 10-bit 4:2:2 400Mbps would not be something you could pick out with a higher accuracy than pure chance.

Canon EOS C100 AVCHD and ProRes 4:2:2 HQ Comparison on Vimeo

it should be noted that Long GOP on the GH5 isn't really Long GOP, it's just GOP

According to Panasonic, it's Long-GOP. It even says in the camera when you pick the mode.

I have found that the 10bit 150mbp/s CODEC breaks like a cheap wine glass when using VLog in it.

Which completely belies practically every one else's use of it, including my own. Do you have examples of the 150Mbps codec (it's not an acronym, it's a portmanteau) breaking in Vlog? How were you exposing?

When normalizing VLog to rec709 the shadows macro block quickly and blue sky gradients block up pretty nasty.

Using a LUT? Which one? How were you grading it?

Even motion studders too much.

That means you were panning or tilting too fast for 24p.

Steven Schuldt
October 1st, 2017, 12:03 PM
So far I'm really loving the new 400mbps ALL-I. It should be noted that I'm using an ADATA V90 256GB SDXC I picked up at Amazon, so that makes two success stories with that brand of V90 card.

As far as what the utility is of this kind of heavy bit-rate, that depends on the shoot. I think for most projects it may well be best to shoot 60p or 24p 8bit and use a profile very close to what you want your finished product to look like. I do think this is fine for street shooting, weddings, many documentaries, home movies.

For Indie film, however, I don't think it's appropriate. I had a lot of trouble with compression artifacts shooting 150Mbps 10bit, so the new codec is very exciting as in my tests so far there have been no visible artifacts. I think the best use of this mode for Indies is when shooting certain scenes guerilla/stealth on a production that is otherwise capturing to something like a Ninja Inferno. For that, it's pretty ideal.

Also, I'm wondering what the case would be (if any) for choosing to shoot with the Hybrid Log Gamma profile over VLog. 10bit VLog footage can be mastered to HDR by HDR production services, correct? If so, what is HLG for? Can any grading gurus set me straight on this? Thanks!

Gary Huff
October 1st, 2017, 12:11 PM
I'm wondering what the case would be (if any) for choosing to shoot with the Hybrid Log Gamma profile over VLog. 10bit VLog footage can be mastered to HDR by HDR production services, correct?

HLG is to give you finished SDR/HDR footage without having to always grade from log into both.

Steven Schuldt
October 1st, 2017, 04:30 PM
HLG is to give you finished SDR/HDR footage without having to always grade from log into both.

Almost makes sense... though I'm guessing my editor (Final Cut Pro X) would need to explicitly support it, otherwise it's going to simply treat it as a 10bit 709 color space. Is that right?

Gary Huff
October 1st, 2017, 09:04 PM
Almost makes sense... though I'm guessing my editor (Final Cut Pro X) would need to explicitly support it, otherwise it's going to simply treat it as a 10bit 709 color space. Is that right?

I don't know if it would treat it as Rec.709 or not. I would say that, from what I've read, it seems that the end device needs to support HLG. So if you're just planning on going to YouTube, as long as you keep HLG intact throughout the chain, it should be fine. UHD Blu-ray or other devices using HDR10 or Dolby Vision, not so much.

Cary Knoop
October 1st, 2017, 10:28 PM
HLG is to give you finished SDR/HDR footage without having to always grade from log into both.
Right, HLG is an alternative to Rec.709 not to V-Log.

Vishal Jadhav
October 1st, 2017, 10:35 PM
Tried both the versions in 4k and simply recorded wildlife with both for 10 second clips and i do not find any difference, the 10 bit on both ensures that they hold during editing.
i have not done any big stress tests with heavy Post processing and applying multiple LUTs so thats one i wont be able to comment.
However for everything the older format at 10 bit should be good to go.

Cary Knoop
October 1st, 2017, 10:51 PM
I have found that the 10bit 150mbp/s CODEC breaks like a cheap wine glass when using VLog in it. When normalizing VLog to rec709 the shadows macro block quickly and blue sky gradients block up pretty nasty. Even motion studders too much.

Sorry but that is just nonsense, the 10 bit V-Log 4:2:2: works fantastic!


It has the burden of twice the chroma resolution and arround 40 times more color palette

10 bit versus 8 bit only requires 1 1/4 more data and tests have shown that 10 bit actually compresses more efficiently than 8 bit. 4:2:2 versus 4:2:0 is indeed twice as much color information but with respect to 4:4:4 it is only a difference of 1 1/3.


So far, the 400mbps holds strong.
Since the 400Mbs is All-Intra the 150Mbs long GOP should not be too much behind because a long GOP encoding compresses much better with the same quality. It depends a bit on the footage which one will give a better result.

The prime advantage of an All-Intra encoding is that your editing will be snappier because there is less CPU load.

I would suspect that in most cases it will only give a marginally higher quality.

Alex Anderson
October 1st, 2017, 11:34 PM
I don't know if it would treat it as Rec.709 or not. I would say that, from what I've read, it seems that the end device needs to support HLG. So if you're just planning on going to YouTube, as long as you keep HLG intact throughout the chain, it should be fine. UHD Blu-ray or other devices using HDR10 or Dolby Vision, not so much.

I read somewhere about a few days ago that there are only four TVs that handle HDR and only two that handle HLG. A SonyTV was one for HDR but not listed as an HLG TV. A month ago I bought the latest 65" high end model ***900 Sony HDR smartTV. Does that mean I cannot correctly see video shot with HLG and video I get from somewhere that is all HLG? Could I shoot HLG on the GH5 camera and later convert HLG to HDR in post production for an HDR master output file? Maybe a plugin for Premier Pro or Resolve? I also just read that this model Sony TV I bought will not upgrade later on through firmware to have Dolby Vision. :-(

Gary Huff
October 2nd, 2017, 06:47 AM
Could I shoot HLG on the GH5 camera and later convert HLG to HDR in post production for an HDR master output file?

HLG is an HDR format, just its own format. If you want the most compatibility for any HDR standard, you should film in Vlog-L.

Alex Anderson
October 2nd, 2017, 09:44 AM
Thanx Gary. I was wondering what would happen if I tried to view an GLG file on my Sony TV that is not listed for HLG, but it is an HDR TV. Would it play correctly? Would it look correct? I do not have a GH5 yet so I can't try it out.

I have been doing quite a bit of research the last few days on this subject and I am trying to understand 4k HDR and HLG and learn a workflow from shooting thru post to deliver.

Steven Schuldt
October 2nd, 2017, 10:13 AM
I tried playing 4K HEVC for HLG (the new low-bitrate version included in the update) clips on my 2016 LG OLED HDR TV via the USB stick option and the TV could not play them back. These were clips straight from the GH5. Kinda disappointing. Note that HEVC clips captured on an iPhone in iOS 11 play back fine on the same TV.

So score it Apple: 1 Panasonic: 0

Steven Schuldt
October 2nd, 2017, 10:51 AM
Sorry but that is just nonsense, the 10 bit V-Log 4:2:2: works fantastic!

It worked like crap for me too, producing totally unusable footage with intermittent blocky artifacts even before grading. Congratulations on having had a different experience, but you can stop pretending right now that other people haven't had problems. After two days of testing I gave up and simply started shooting 8bit for everything.

In my testing so far, version 2's 10bit ALL-I is free of these problems (as one would expect).

Gary Huff
October 2nd, 2017, 11:12 AM
It worked like crap for me too, producing totally unusable footage with intermittent blocky artifacts even before grading.

I would like to see this footage, because you also said it messed with the motion, which it wouldn't do at all. So what else could you be mistaken about? Perhaps you underexposed it.

Gary Huff
October 2nd, 2017, 11:13 AM
You do realize that all the EVA1 short films that are out where shot in full Vlog in the same LongGOP codec, right?

Cary Knoop
October 2nd, 2017, 11:30 AM
I... but you can stop pretending right now that other people haven't had problems.
Why don't you Dropbox some straight out of camera footage that demonstrates your claim of "totally unusable footage"?

Steven Schuldt
October 2nd, 2017, 12:05 PM
I would like to see this footage, because you also said it messed with the motion, which it wouldn't do at all. So what else could you be mistaken about? Perhaps you underexposed it.
Heh? Where did I say it "messed with the motion"? You're confused. Also, this stuff was actually borderline overexposed, as it was shot in noon-day sunlight with some areas against a white stucco wall. Happy to put clips up, in fact I'd privately written to offer samples to one of you holy-defender-cowboys who earlier demanded footage but received no response, curiously.

At work right now, will upload samples when I get home tonight.

Gary Huff
October 2nd, 2017, 02:27 PM
Heh? Where did I say it "messed with the motion"? You're confused.

Yes, pardon me, getting confused with the others saying the same things.

in fact I'd privately written to offer samples to one of you holy-defender-cowboys who earlier demanded footage but received no response, curiously.

As opposed to FUDers? Again, the three EVA1 shorts were all shot full Vlog in LongGOP. So you could even point to instances where the codec breaks down there.

Right now I'm working with Clog2 footage that is breaking down, which is 400Mbps Intra, so it happens, it's not the panacea.

Steven Schuldt
October 2nd, 2017, 08:03 PM
As promised, a couple of links to 10bit DCI 4K test clips shot back in early April. These are straight from the GH5 (be sure to download them to see, the Google Drive video is highly compressed). Note the blocky artifacts that can be seen particularly on the white stucco wall to the right. I'd seen similar blocky artifacts on an earlier indoor test, but that was in low light so I assumed low light was the problem.

After these tests in broad daylight I concluded that there was some kind of issue with the codec on either the Panasonic or Apple (FCPX is my NLE) side. All my 8bit tests were clean, so I've shot nothing but 8bit since. I believe both of these were shot using the Cinelike D profile:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9Bir_3Ee8_kSTMzX21SRVdtbGc

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9Bir_3Ee8_kZ016Q3VWWGVkbE0/view?usp=sharing

Also note: I have not had time to test 10bit 150mbps with firmware version 2. I have no intention of using it, in fact, as my 10bit 400mpbs ALL-I testing has gone well. So the above links are essentially academic, but when others complain of issues with the original 10bit 150mbps, these tests are what make me believe them.

Gary Huff
October 2nd, 2017, 09:15 PM
Thank you for the clips. That isn't codec breakdown, that looks way more like corruption of the information being written to the card. I would be surprised if these are the same cards that you're using to record the 400Mbps Intra footage too. Would that be incorrect?

What kind of cards were you using to record these clips?

Cary Knoop
October 2nd, 2017, 09:39 PM
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9Bir_3Ee8_kSTMzX21SRVdtbGc

There is something wrong with that footage.

First of all it is not correct V-Log L footage as the code value ranges are completely off, second the video range is limited instead of full as it should be with V-Log L. Also the video is not 24p but 23.97p.

On further inspection on the metadata using exif tools all the Panasonic specific items are not available and there is a lot of Apple specific data instead.

Are you sure this is straight out of camera?
I am pretty sure it is absolutely not!

Gary Huff
October 2nd, 2017, 09:55 PM
First of all it is not correct V-Log L footage as the code value ranges are completely off, second the video range is limited instead of full as it should be with V-Log L. Also the video is not 24p but 23.97p.

Steven said it was Cinelike D. Also, the GH5 adds the ability to record DCI 4K in 23.98.

Steven Schuldt
October 3rd, 2017, 10:50 AM
Thank you for the clips. That isn't codec breakdown, that looks way more like corruption of the information being written to the card. I would be surprised if these are the same cards that you're using to record the 400Mbps Intra footage too. Would that be incorrect?

What kind of cards were you using to record these clips?
I was using fast U3 SanDisk Extreme Pro cards, FWIW, which were more or less the fastest cards available at the time, and never had a problem with them in any use case save for when I tested the new ALL-I last week and the camera balked after 10 seconds or so of recording. I've since moved up to V90 cards.

I disagree about corruption of information written to the card. If that were the case the artifacts should have appeared randomly as opposed to appearing almost exclusively in certain areas like the stucco wall, which the codec seemed to have particular problems with.

These files came out of the "original media" folder of a FCPX library, which I took to be exactly that: the original media. I have no other copies. It is likely Apple tagged the footage with metadata, though it should not have altered it. I didn't write Final Cut though, so not sure. As ever, I have no idea if Apple or Panasonic was the source of those artifacts. I only know that I considered them unacceptable and hence any footage shot in 10-bit mode unusable. All 8-bit modes were artifact-free.

Also, I have never installed the VLog upgrade on my GH5, and usually shoot in Cinelike D, which I'm almost certain is the photo style that was used for these clips, as I was testing the camera for my own indie film use (10-bit, DCI 4K, 23.97, Cinelike D)

One possibility is that internally, Panasonic never tested 10-bit very much using photo styles other than VLog. Maybe if I'd had the VLog upgrade these artifacts would never have appeared. If that's the case it's still a bad experience for the customer, as I briefly considered having the camera serviced as it appeared possibly broken somehow as this was a rather simple test of advertised features.

Gary Huff
October 3rd, 2017, 11:11 AM
I disagree about corruption of information written to the card. If that were the case the artifacts should have appeared randomly as opposed to appearing almost exclusively in certain areas like the stucco wall, which the codec seemed to have particular problems with.

But that is not at all what codec breakdown looks like.

These files came out of the "original media" folder of a FCPX library, which I took to be exactly that: the original media.

You should have mentioned that, as it's very pertinent. I have had Final Cut mess up footage after ingest. So the footage isn't straight off the card then, it came from a drive which it was ingested onto. This doesn't rule out corruption of the footage.

Which version of Final Cut Pro X did you use?

One possibility is that internally, Panasonic never tested 10-bit very much using photo styles other than VLog.

That wouldn't make any difference, but you've already indicated you don't know what visual artifacts a stressed codec produces, so this surmising isn't surprising.

Steven Schuldt
October 3rd, 2017, 11:54 AM
That wouldn't make any difference, but you've already indicated you don't know what visual artifacts a stressed codec produces, so this surmising isn't surprising.

What exactly do you think are you defending here? Panasonic's honor? I already said I had no idea if this was an Apple or a Panasonic problem. Desperate claims about "stressed codecs" and problems with perfectly fine capture cards are worth less than nothing, help nothing, illuminate nothing, achieve nothing, other than to demonstrate what a petty, weird jerk you are.

Gary Huff
October 3rd, 2017, 12:44 PM
What exactly do you think are you defending here? Panasonic's honor?

What exactly do you think you're attacking here? You don't know what codec breakdown looks like, so you're spreading FUD via ignorance. Does that not concern you in the slightest?

I already said I had no idea if this was an Apple or a Panasonic problem.

Not until after you conveniently left out the fact that this was a file ingested from FCPX.

Desperate claims about "stressed codecs" and problems with perfectly fine capture cards

Since you left out the fact that this clip was not straight off the card, and instead from a drive where it had been ingested with FCPX, I had to resort to eliminating potential causes. If you had been truthful from the get-go, I wouldn't have had to ask, now would I?

worth less than nothing, help nothing, illuminate nothing, achieve nothing, other than to demonstrate what a petty, weird jerk you are.

You're the one claiming the LongGOP codec was worthless, which isn't true. Thus, you're contributing nothing of value. If it was something to consider as a general rule, then you should be able to point out the issues with the EVA1 shorts in a way that demonstrates where LongGOP broke down on those visuals, yet you haven't done that yet, nor will you.

If you really want to put the nail in the coffin, I can emulate exactly what you shot, and share the footage straight off the card, and it won't have those issues at all. Care to put some money down on that test beforehand? Let's say, $100 says that I can shoot similar stucco apartments on a sunny day in DCI 4K 10-bit 4:2:2 LongGOP using the same settings and lens and it won't have the corruption on it. Deal?

Chris Hurd
October 3rd, 2017, 01:52 PM
PUH-LEEZE keep it civil. Some posts edited for language. Thread stays open but argue the topic, not each other. Thanks in advance.