View Full Version : Throwing in the towel on the Mac Pro


Les Wilson
June 27th, 2018, 06:41 PM
I'm getting too stuck unable to upgrade my early 2009 Mac Pro (performance with SSD and Radeon is OK) past El Capitan. I'm going to have to bite the bullet and go to a nMP. Screw the new one in 2019 or whenever.

My tower has 15TB right now and I have another 12TB in raw archive drives. What's your go to TB 2 external hard disk chassis?

I want twin matching displays. Anything any good besides used Apple TB 2 displays?

6 or 8 cores?

D500 or D700?

I do a lot of FCP X, compressor, Photoshop and Motion production to web. Right now, everything I do is XDCAM 35MBS and GoPro. I want reliability and speed (editing and rendering).

Jim Feeley
June 27th, 2018, 08:52 PM
Why replace your cheese grater Mac Pro with a trashcan Mac Pro based on a 4.5-year old chassis (and filled with old CPUs and GPUs)?

A friend who's been a full-time editor for like 30 years and works with footage from Arri Alexas/Amiras, RED, various Sony and Canon cameras has been working at a place with a few iMac Pros for about six months now. He writes:

"We have lots of experience with them. Best machine Apple currently makes, if you can swallow the price."

And he's hard to please. Here's something Oliver Peters wrote back in January after testing an iMac Pro. Includes some interesting benchmarks. He's working with them still:

Putting Apple’s iMac Pro Through the Paces
https://digitalfilms.wordpress.com/2018/01/06/putting-apples-imac-pro-through-the-paces/


Could you make an iMac Pro work, or is it just too much money?

Les Wilson
June 29th, 2018, 05:03 AM
Not going iMac because basically it's a stop gap product everyone will dump in 2019 and there's no twin screen solution.

Nate Haustein
June 29th, 2018, 06:30 AM
Buy a used, souped up 27” iMac for the time being ($1k-1.5k) then sell it off when your new Mac Pro becomes available. A 4k Dell 27” Monitor ($400) matches close enough in size and color - and I’m more OCD than most. For XDCAM and GoPro a nMP seems like overkill - doesn’t seem like you need it right this moment - unless you want to be in the same boat in a few years, the next gen of Mac Pro feels like a better investment if you can wait.

William Hohauser
June 29th, 2018, 01:00 PM
Just was helping someone out with the same problem last week. It really, really depends on how you are working with those programs. And which 2009 MacPro model / video card you have. A 27" iMac is an impressive machine but it is no match when it comes to multi-core CPUs in the 2009 MacPro (Compressor speeds along with these) or the multi-core CPUs and dual GPU cards in the 2013 MacPro or new iMacPro (FCPX and Motion love these). If your editing is mainly straight cuts with occasional color correction or effects/transitions, the iMac is fine for now. If you use a lot of filters and complex Motion templates consider a used 8-core 2013 MacPro.

Les Wilson
June 29th, 2018, 01:11 PM
yeah, thanks all, it's a bugger of a situation but I'm going nMP. Would like your solid recommendations from your experience with Raid 5 or 4 tray TB 2 external storage units since everything is now outboard. I'm fed up with my Caldigit eSata external units.

Also ... alternatives (if any) to Apple's TB2 displays.

Andy Wilkinson
June 29th, 2018, 03:20 PM
OK I’ll chip in.

I have a 8-core 2009 cMP locked down on Mountain Lion with 32GB of RAM and a 2013 nMP, 8-core, 32GB RAM and D700s currently on Sierra. Latter is a pretty good machine for what I do using Adobe CC, but compared to the older cMP running CS6, it’s not a HUGE step-up speed wise. However, I needed XAVC (and other newer codecs) with native working/no transcoding that the newer OS etc. brought for speed etc.

Both MPs are hooked up to Dell Ultrasharp displays, two 24 inch HD displays on the cMP and two 27 inch higher res ones with the cMP.

Both have “current work in progress” media on numerous G-Tech RAID0 eSATA on the cMP or RAID5 external units (twin G-Tech Studio R Thunderbolt 2 with the nMP).

I shoot mainly now on a Sony FS5 in XAVC-L UHD and I’m rarely frustrated by Trashcan’s set-up. I know it would be faster with the FCPX that I also have installed on it (but the editor, me, is currently not faster when working in FCPX than with CC - in time he might be!)

G-Tech Studio Rs are great but not exactly whisper quiet - the newer one that I bought about 6 months ago at an amazing price (as they were discontinued plus as a back-up clone) is noticeably quieter than the 4 year old identical one that’s my main work in progress unit for current projects.

Not sure this helps but happy to answer any question on here. Some more detailed info on aspects of the above in the blog section on my website too.

Jim Feeley
June 29th, 2018, 05:58 PM
Not going iMac because basically it's a stop gap product everyone will dump in 2019 and there's no twin screen solution.

OTOH, every computer gets surpassed by newer computers. But right know the iMac Pro is pretty damn fast, configurable, and apparently reliable. Sure seems more modern than the trashcan Mac Pros So can you wait a year to see what, if anything, Apple does? And if everyone dumps their iMac Pros next year yours wouldn't stop working...and you could pick up a spare for cheap. :-)

And you can connect an extra monitor (or four) to the iMac Pro via Thunderbolt 3 (and perhaps some adapters if you're not using a T3-equiped monitor):

Connect multiple displays to your iMac Pro
With four Thunderbolt 3 ports built-in, iMac Pro supports up to four 4K displays or up to two 5K displays.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208366

Just depends on when you need a new computer, how much you want to spend, etc.

Les Wilson
June 30th, 2018, 03:19 AM
@Andy: Perfect. Just what I was asking. Glad to read your SSD death had a happy ending. LOL

@Jim et al. I totally understand the capabilities of the iMac Pro and the differences. It's not a product I want. I'm not getting one. What external storage are you using?

William Hohauser
July 3rd, 2018, 12:39 PM
yeah, thanks all, it's a bugger of a situation but I'm going nMP. Would like your solid recommendations from your experience with Raid 5 or 4 tray TB 2 external storage units since everything is now outboard. I'm fed up with my Caldigit eSata external units.

Also ... alternatives (if any) to Apple's TB2 displays.

Go OWC (macsales.com) for a RAID or see if there's a new G-RAID studio drive on sale (those go on sale every now and then and the prices are great). Also USB3 is very robust and can handle RAID bandwidth for multicam HD.

For monitors I have two NEC EA244WMi on my MacPro which work well for 709a color space. They are older models and not really built for video color space as some newer models are now. If I was to get a new monitor for the MacPro it would probably be this: BenQ PV270 27" Video Post-Production IPS Monitor which is tuned for P3 cinema color. Not cheap however. For my new MacBookPro I just got the LG 22MD4K monitor which is really incredible looking (and tuned to TV production specs) but it's a USB-C only monitor so probably not suitable for the MacPro. LG has other monitors that have DisplayPort connections that are probably as good looking.

Les Wilson
July 3rd, 2018, 01:54 PM
Good to know. Twin 27" are a tad too large for my space so I'm looking at the 32" ones. I'm used to having space for 4 portrait shaped windows spanning 39" on two displays. The ASUS 32" 4K Ultra HD ProArt Professional Monitor [PA328Q] IPS is 33"5" and would be a decent replacement as far as physical size goes. I am weary wasting so much space in the lame two monitor configuration of FCP X so single display would mean less fighting it.

Since 1981, I've never looked at anything other than an Apple logo. This could be torturous. How is ASUS?

Les Wilson
July 18th, 2018, 09:22 AM
CORRECTION: Since 1984. Mac 128.

EPILOG: Took delivery of refurb 8 core nMP and Dell 38" 4K monitor, TB2 dock & TB2 Raid. Mac Pro 2013 was nothing but user interface freezes all the time. System still ran. Couldn't even complete a time machine backup. Those D700 graphics cards are garbage. What a piece of junk. Returned for full refund.

Going new toppling MacBook Pro for $1K less as desktop and color correction monitor. Touch ID should be handy. Unfortunately I already have TB dock and RAID. Will make it work. SMH

William Hohauser
July 18th, 2018, 11:04 AM
The D700 graphic cards are great when they are working. I had to replace them this year after beating the hell out of them for four years.

Your refurb came from where? Apple? They probably didn't run the proper testing procedures to detect a card defect. The way the two cards interact is unique to the MacPro and even techs at Apple stores don't always run the correct diagnostic program to test both cards. I know this from experience, a long drawn out experience that finally had a good outcome.

Just get a USB-C to TB adapter and your dock and RAID will work instantly. I did the same at home with the 2017 MacBookPro and everything is working.

Boyd Ostroff
July 18th, 2018, 11:21 AM
CORRECTION: Since 1984. iMac 128

Better check the readout on your time machine again, that was just a "Macintosh 128", the iMac didn't come along until much later. :-)

I got a "Fat Mac" 512 in 1985. But my first computer was the original Apple ][ that I bought in 1978, it was one of the first 5000 made! No disk drives existed yet, you had to use an audio cassette recorder. Used a 13" color TV for a screen with a RF modulator. I went all out and got 16k of memory (the base machine only had 4k). If you didn't have 16k, you couldn't load floating point BASIC and were limited to the integer BASIC that was burned into ROM. In the 1980's, we got an Apple //e, Apple /// and even an Apple IIgs at work. Those were the days!

My 2012 2.6ghz i7 quad core Mini Server still meets my modest FCP needs pretty well, I just don't do much video now. That machine can sit unused for months at a time. By the time I need to upgrade, there should be a variety of options, including the "new modular Mac Pro".

Les Wilson
July 18th, 2018, 12:01 PM
ARGH. A correction to the correction. You are correct: Mac 128.

Pete Cofrancesco
July 18th, 2018, 12:07 PM
I’ve never bought an Apple refurb. They don’t discount them enough to make them tempting.

Les Wilson
July 18th, 2018, 12:25 PM
Yeah, the refurb was from Apple and saved $750. I wish it had worked out. I like the architecture. But it's too old and pricey to not be flawless.

I know about the Mac Pro's 3 Thunderbolt busses and how you were supposed to separate disks and display if possible.

How does it work with the 4 Thunderbolt ports on the 2018 MBP? How many independent TB3 channels are there? Does it matter if everything is behind my TB2 dock? I would think it would. TIA

William Hohauser
July 18th, 2018, 10:02 PM
Returning it was probably the best thing to do. Getting them to replace a bad video board would have been a task if my experience is any indicator. Basically they have to replace both (that’s Apple’s stated policy towards video board repairs) and you have to make sure the one MacPro repair facility in the country does it. They didn’t do that with me and the Apple staff apologized profusely over the mistake.

I have purchased a number of Apple refurbished units over the years and had a good experience with all of them. I still have a refurbished 2007 iMac running well. These days I cycle my new computers so I haven’t purchased a refurbished in a while but I do recommend them. They might not be as cheap as a full used Mac but they usually perform well and for a long time.

Les Wilson
July 21st, 2018, 06:56 AM
UPDATE: I'm 48 hours into reluctantly substituting a MBP 2018 as a replacement "desktop". The MBP keyboard and track pad are absurd but it doesn't matter as a desktop. On a stand next to a new 38" curved 22:1 display, it serves nicely as an FCP video output monitor. VERY Nice. Perfectly sized. Otherwise it sits there black as night.

I anticipate the touch bar to be a pleasant ergonomic addition to my work habits similar to having one single screen instead of two which I find I have long rooted work habits to toss away and create new ones. Better ones.

Performance wise, it's i9 6-core with 32GB memory plus Radeon Pro 560X with 4GB VRAM is snappy as can be. Rendering, it is mildly faster than the Cheesegrater and about the same improvement that the 8-Core Mac Pro 2013 was. I hope they can improve that over time.

Compatibility with monitors is squirrely, I picked up the U3818DW Dell variant of the LG 38" curved panel because it was touted as designed for professional environments over gaming as is the case with other OEM implementations. While true, it suffers compatibility with the MBP 2018.

When connected via the USB-C connector to the TB 3 ports, the MBP nicely gets charged and stays charged (90w). However, the system won't stay shutdown or slept unless I physically power off the monitor. Without this, the monitor is constantly awakening to declare there is no signal and waking up the RAID in the process. It's constant cycling up and down.

To get proper SLEEP/SHUTDOWN behavior, you have to somehow hook up via the Display Port which is adding non-Apple dongles, docks etc... more compatibility pitfalls and a desktop mess. The Dell monitor's USB ports only run at USB 2.0 speeds when connected via USB-C. More cables and docks need to fix that.

I'm only 48 hours into it but I do not like the non-Apple monitor experience.

Anyway, I threw in the towel on the Mac Pro 2009 and reluctantly had to do the same with the Mac Pro 2013. The magnitude of compromises at this point is larger than I ever remember. But I'm hoping this unit will last me long enough to get to the speed bumped version of the next Mac Pro. I never buy version 1.0. Time will tell. YMMV

Jonathan Levin
July 22nd, 2018, 04:46 PM
I’m really interested in this as I am thinking of replacing my mid 2010 mac pro with something portable but powerful enough touse fcp x and maybe someday 4k video. For now 1070p. I also have an Apple led display that I bought at the same time as the MP, still looks great but unsure if it will work well with current MBpro, or if I need a third party display like LG or simular. Storage is a whole world I need to figure out

Your experience with shut down/sleep has me concerned.

Thanks.

Les Wilson
July 22nd, 2018, 05:12 PM
If you are happy with the display, keep it going. I'd expect it to work fine and you will certainly get support from Apple on it. I had twin Cinema HD displays that were aging quickly with not being as bright and ports failing.

It's a wild wild world with OEM displays. Zero support from the manufacturer. I doubt the display was the main problem with the nMP. I recall having the freeze once or twice with the old display. Didn't think much of it at the time.

I cannot speak to the MBP and 4K. I only work with 1080p XDCAM 35 and rendering is 2x faster then my cheesegrater. Also, the display doesn't clog up as fast when lots of apps are open as my Radeon 5870 with only 1G VRAM. I do mainly 8 minute packages and rendering on the MBP is so much faster it's hardly enough time to make a cup of coffee. :-)

I went down the path of getting a Dock because the monitor compatibility problems go away when it's connected via DP. But before it arrived and while Apple is working on the Sleep/Shutdown problem when connected via USB-C, I found that I can sleep/shutdown and then quickly power off the monitor before it causes trouble. The dock is sitting in the box. I read a post that since it;s a USB-C dock (not Thunderbolt3) it only runs the mini-DP connected 4K monitor at 30Hz. That's a non-starter for me if true. I'll wait for a TB3 dock.

My gut says the MBP is putting something on the wire the DELL U3818DW wasn't expecting and things go down the tubes. Turning power off on the monitor prevents it from responding or whatever and waking up everything. But I'm guessing. The TB2 G-TECH G-Speed Studio RAID handles it fine connected only by a TB2 to TB3 adapter from apple. They are a good buy if you can find them in stock.

I found that TB2 connected RAID was as fast as my internal drives on the cheesegrater. The silent running of SSDs is enticing. When I don't need the RAID, I power it down.

Les Wilson
July 22nd, 2018, 05:17 PM
This is what I'm seeing on the MBP with the G-Speed Studio.

Pete Cofrancesco
July 22nd, 2018, 07:46 PM
Have you run out of towels?

Les Wilson
July 22nd, 2018, 08:30 PM
LOL. There is a bit of irony in throwing in the towel on the cheesegrater Mac Pro and then then having to also throw it in on the nMP. Yes. I am out of towels. This MBP is nice. Hope it lasts.

Pete Cofrancesco
July 22nd, 2018, 09:29 PM
I’m joking but I went through similar problems trying to upgrade my cheese grater. At the end I realized I rather have stable reliable mac even if it’s slower and older.