I know I'll probably get ridiculed for saying this and will probably start another debate about the product trends of Sony, Canon, JVC, and Panasonic. But I believe (saying that because I'm not allowed to reveal my source) that a replacement for the FX1 will be coming out near the end of January/ begining of February.

As some of you may know, I was planning on buying an FX1 but I decided to hold off until I see what Sony releases to replace it. My question is what do you guys think would be changed in it, or hope to see changed in it? My source wasn't able to tell me anything about the specifications, just " I'd recommend waiting about a month/month and a half."

Another reason I'm waiting was the FX1 was just going to be a stopgap for me, I really hope the HVX200 drops in price to "street value" by then so I can get what I want.

Best case scenario: The FX2 has HDV 1080p60 support with HDMI hookup.

Worst case scenario: The FX2 uses HDV 1080i again and only upgrades the image sensors to 3CMOS.

I think that the only change you guys can expect this year is upgraded CF24, based on 48i, not on 60i, so the motion will be smooth.

I think that the only change you guys can expect this year is upgraded CF24, based on 48i, not on 60i, so the motion will be smooth.

That would actually be great. Unfortunately I doubt they'll do that. Sony just doesn't seem interested in providing high quality 24fps for the consumer.

I do expect a newer generation MPEG2 encoder though. Some sort of focus assist that operates while recording might be a realistic expectation. Overall I wouldn't expect too much though. I don't recall too much updating when the VX2100 replaced the VX2000 and I'd guess we'll see a similarly mild upgrade path here.

Before Z1 came out, there was a 48 page Sony Power Point presentation, where two CF24 mode were included. At that time Sony still did not finalize the firmware yet. I think that it would cost Sony nothing to do this change and the competing Canon already has true 24p mode. I doubt that you can expect any other changes as Sony is still unchallenged in their market segment.

Before Z1 came out, there was a 48 page Sony Power Point presentation, where two CF24 mode were included. At that time Sony still did not finalize the firmware yet. I think that it would cost Sony nothing to do this change and the competing Canon already has true 24p mode. I doubt that you can expect any other changes as Sony is still unchallenged in their market segment.

Well Petr, hope springs eternal. Like I said, I think a 48i based CF24 would be superb, even with the resolution loss. But your indication that Sony originally planned 2 CF24 modes, combined with the fact that it probably wouldn't cost much to add 48i actually leads us to the conclusion that... Sony doesn't want us to have a 24F camera for 3 or even 5 grand.

Also, the competing Canon doesn't have 24P because.. there is no competing Canon. The XLH1 costs 3 (let me emphasize, THREE!!) times as much as an FX1. Relatively speaking then my Hyndai would be competing with Corvettes. Its also a LOT more expensive than the Z1.

Hey man, like I said, hope springs eternal. But Sony putting a proper 24F/P mode on the FX1 just totally flies in the face of past and present Sony product development. I think if you want Sony and you want 24P, you need to hand them 20K plus (or whatever it costs) for some sort of HDCAM unit. And that's just how Sony likes it.

I don't believe it'll happen, but I'll keep my fingers crossed for you anyway!

Philip, I totally agree. There were posts that Sony may have all these improvements. I said that if any, better CF24 would be it, which, like I said would cost them nothing, but they will not give us this nothing-cost improvement, unless the competiton makes them, and there is no competition.

Hi

I guess I agree with the others not to expect any radical updates by Sony..

I think the FX1 is a brilliant camera for the money but my wish list would be...
Personally I've no real use for 24p

1) Some kind of built in shoulder support, to help balance it a bit...Some one once suggested it would be nice if the view finder and LCD were interchangable... so it could be used as a semi-shoulder cam... that would be nice as it is quite heavy, especially with an external mic and Beachtek...linked to my first wish that would be great.

2) Some form of solid state recording... along the P2 lines.

cheers
Gareth

I believe real 24p running on 48i would require more than a firmware upgrade, but real 30p could possibly be added but what interface would they use ? Kurth

How would you feel if the FX2 recorded to a Blu-Ray instead of MiniDV tape? (No I don't know anything, just curious)

How would you feel if the FX2 recorded to a Blu-Ray instead of MiniDV tape? (No I don't know anything, just curious)
I'd feel interested, but not sold.
Will the Blu-Ray give us other recording options?
Are we still talking the same 1080i HDV, or are we gonna actually take a risk and offer up some real progressive mojo?
(I don't know anything either, but there's a good chance my curiosity will lead me to the same conclusion I have arrived to previously: Sony doesn't have the balls to give us progressive).

Blu-Ray wouldn't affect the availability of progressive or interlace options.

The main advantage would be to pop the disc directly into your Blu-Ray computer drive and copy the video to hard disk.

Philip, I totally agree. There were posts that Sony may have all these improvements. I said that if any, better CF24 would be it, which, like I said would cost them nothing, but they will not give us this nothing-cost improvement, unless the competiton makes them, and there is no competition.

All the other cams are competition. It doesn't matter if they are more expensive they're competition if the buyer is willng to pay an extra couple of bucks and go somewhere else. And buyers most definetly are look at the other forums here.

A proper cf24(like canon's 24f) FX1 and Z1 would sh** all over every companies offering because those cameras are so much cheaper. Sure the other companies cameras would sell but for tons and I mean tons of people the only thing they care about from other cams is 24, they don't care about p2, 20x canon lens, HD-SDI out, variable frame rates, etc.

A camera like that would be dare I say it...more like an HD dvx than the HVX is.

At the fx1/z1u price sure the cameras would be cheaper but sony would sell INCREDIBLE volume, which leads to more profit.

I know other people would argue this but the majority of people with the dvx series cameras cannot afford the hvx with it's ability to record HD.

So a 24f FX1/Z1U would have the same audience it originally had PLUS more than half the audience panasonic, jvc, and canon have.

If sony did that and only that without even adding other features they would have a huge winner on their hands.

If sony doesn't get to market with an FX1/Z1 form factor high quality 24f camcorder, canon will.

I think it's more likely to see a Canon GL3 with the 24F HDV. That will be the big seller.

I was really close to ordering my 2nd Fx1 but now with the news of the update of the HC1, i'm on my toes now wondering if there will indeed be an update to the FX1.

I guess a sign that there would be an updated HC1 was the $500 rebate that came out. So far I havent seen any news of a rebate for the FX1 but the units are discounted $300+ on sites like best buy and circuit city. Hmmm my gut is starting to think there will be an update.

There's been a rebate on the GL-2 for a LONG time now (over a year?) but still no GL-3 in sight. So I don't know that you can draw conclusions from this....

I have a feeling it well be soon. GL3 $2399. HDV/DV. I have this feelings when I'm in area 51,,,,,

I see no point in Sony upgrading the FX/Z1 right now, not with the "affordable" hd xd cams being released. Demand for the FX/Z1 still seems high.
Could it be that the origional tipster that set this whole thread into motion had his/her facts mixed up and was reporting on rumors of the recently released HC3?

It's now more likely that the FX2 will have a HDMI output! The HC3 (according to it's manual) Is confirmed to support HDMI!!!

It's been what two years since the FX1 came out? Z1U not long after that? It's probably about time for a upgrade. Does Sony wait for the big shows like NAB to announce?

Personally I think you'll be waiting awhile for an upgrade, but of course nobody knows. Looks like it's been just under two years since Sony showed a non-working mockup of the FX-1 at CeBIT:

http://www.sony-europe.com/PageView.do?site=odw_en_EU&page=PressReleaseDetail&section=en_EU_Press&pressrelease=1079021485605

It wasn't shipped until November 2004. I believe the Z1 didn't ship until January 2005. Seems like it's too soon for them to replace cameras which are reportedly selling very well. How long did it take for them to replace the VX-2000 and PD-150? I'd guess 3 years or more, but not really sure.

If you look back at Sony's replacement record, the top end stuff (VX/PD) hang around unchanged far longer than the consumer cameras. The VX2000 was on the books for 4 years before the VX2100 mild face lift replaced it. So too with the PD150/170. The VX1000 was a long-life camera and the VX9000 just came to a stop.

The FX1 has been with us 18 months, so I really feel it's replacement (even a mild face-lift replacement) is some way off. Of course I could well be wrong, for as they say in stocks and shares - past performance is no indication of future trends.

tom.

Well maybe things are moving faster now with HD/HDV than standard DV did. If you want you can still buy and use standard DV cameras, but if one of these companies plan on staying ahead on HD and selling more than they other company they need to make changes. HD/HDV is just to new to sit on one camera for four years. I don't think it will happen.

People said the same think about Canon. "Canon will what years to come out with HD. Canon isn't a leader, they wait to see what everyone else is going to do first!!" What happened last year? Canon comes out with the XLH1. They didn't sit around and wait. I really can't see Sony waiting either.

People said the same think about Canon. "Canon will what years to come out with HD. Canon isn't a leader, they wait to see what everyone else is going to do first!!" What happened last year? Canon comes out with the XLH1. They didn't sit around and wait. I really can't see Sony waiting either.
Actually, Canon may not have waited "years", but they certainly did wait.
It was pretty clear that consumers knew what to expect from the other manufacturers before Canon.
Sony already had a fleet of HDV cameras, JVC delightfully surprised quite a few with its third HDV offering, the HD100, and we all remember the build up of anticipation surrounding the Panasonic HVX and its cloak and swagger campaign.
I tend to agree with the notion that even though Canon isn't always the first to announce a product, their products still manage to establish themselves as class leaders after they are announced.

People said the same think about Canon. "Canon will what years to come out with HD.

OTOH, Canon still hasn't come out with an "affordable" HD camera. How long has the GL2 been on the market? I considered it when when I bought my VX-2000 back in 2001!

It's all about the market. There isn't a lot of reason for any company to release new models as long as they're making money from sales of the existing one....

How much can they be making on the GL2?

How long has the GL2 been on the market? I considered it when when I bought my VX-2000 back in 2001!
Actually, that would have been the GL1. The GL2 was announced in the summer of 2002. It's been out for almost 4 years, debuting at an est. price of about $3000. At that time the XL1 was priced around $4500, leaving a $1500 price gap between its top two models.
By calculating the differnce in today's market, with the XLH1 being priced at $9000, twice what the XL1 was, then the difference can be multiplied leaving the GLH1 priced at around $5500 or $6000.
I'm not sure how consumers will repond to that pricing, since the specs and the camera itself remain pure speculation, but when factoring in that the competition will have HDV cameras for a fraction of the cost, the Canon had better bring something very interesting to the table.

$6,000 would be high still. I think the XLH1 is overpriced, the HVX200 is over priced, well at least the P2 card is overpriced. I saw a post somewhere and this guy was waiting on backordered P2 cards. He decided it would be better to buy a mac G4 Powerbook to use! Sorry but that is overpriced.

Sony prices have been more down to earth if you ask me. I guess it's still early in the HD/HDV game.

If Sony can do it for $3000 with the FX1 then Canon can do it for the same price. Though I would hope Canon would do it right.

Here's to hoping this camera is announced at NAB.

If Sony can do it for $3000 with the FX1 then Canon can do it for the same price. Though I would hope Canon would do it right.

Here's to hoping this camera is announced at NAB.


I'm sure Sony thinks they have done it right since they are selling tons of HDV cameras.

You know what I mean, non crippled.

Crippled how? Is there another $3,000 HD camera with more features?

The CF24 mode is crippled. It's mentioned earlier in this thread.

Okay, I give up, I didn't realize this is area 51....

By calculating the differnce in today's market, with the XLH1 being priced at $9000, twice what the XL1 was, then the difference can be multiplied leaving the GLH1 priced at around $5500 or $6000.

I think Canon has already missed their chance to get very far with a 'GLH1,' and they'll really miss the mark if their MSRP for such a product is over $4000. But it would be nice to see them at least try to give Sony a run for their money, which Panasonic and JVC have apparently decided not to do.

I'm sure Sony thinks they have done it right since they are selling tons of HDV cameras.

That's usually the thing Sony does best. They're big enough to make mistakes, sure, (Micro MV) while at the same time pushing the envelope for all of us.

tom.

If Sony wanted to push it they would do a Z1U or FX2 with real 24p.

If Sony wanted to push it they would do a Z1U or FX2 with real 24p.Not if they stuck with the same CCD -- that is, if it's true that the CCD is interlace only (which, frankly, I never believed).

Can't they get a new one?

I'm going to make an educated guess that Sony will bring out a 3CMOS 1080p HDV cam this year, maybe SOON this year. Called FX2 or maybe HC7.
Maybe at NAB. Also am expecting Canon to bring somethign interesting to NAB.

Can't they get a new one?Sure, Sony could even use 3 of the CMOS chip used in the HC1. My understanding is that CMOS chips are inherently configurable to operate progressively. But Sony has shown great resistance to implementing progressive scanning and true 24-fps operation (as opposed to the abomination known as CF24) at the consumer level. Because the popularity of JVC's HD100 and Panasonic's HVX200 has demonstrated the market demand for 24p-capable cameras, Sony may change its position. But I wouldn't hold my breath.

holy cow! 1995 free shipping at the apple store. Not sure if this is a price
mistake or not. Too bad I don't need another one.

Too bad I don't have a credit card right now. Wow.

holy cow! 1995 free shipping at the apple store. Not sure if this is a price
mistake or not. Too bad I don't need another one.

Ditto for me: I just paid $1350 for an HC1! Anyway, here's the direct link for anyone who wants the best deal yet on a decent HD video camera:

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wo/0.RSLID?find=HDR-FX1

holy cow! 1995 free shipping at the apple store. Not sure if this is a price
mistake or not. Too bad I don't need another one.

I thought you were smoking crack or getting a head start on april fools, but here it is (while it lasts):
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/6344001/wo/eI2wjNVrKTNU2cX6KP7hsgIMrlc/3.0.19.1.0.8.25.7.11.0.1

What a deal...

www.philipwilliams.com

Hey wait a minute, are we even supposed to mention the Apple store here?

[DOUBLE EDIT]Dang, Kevin beat me with the link while I was typing...[/DOUBLE EDIT]

oh. dear.
ummmmm, it's not April Fool's...not yet anyways.

Bah my order was cancelled.. Apple said they ran out of stock and won't be selling it at their store again.

Pat,

Sad to hear as I was ready to order tomorrow. Oh well, I was hoping for the PAL version anyway.

I'm holding out for a 1/3" 3CCD, handicam-format XDCAM-HD.

Variable frame-rate, progressive scan, 4 24-bit uncompressed audio channels, random-access recording media.

Yum, yum!

I have NO inside information on this. But if you look at the gap between the Sony Z1 ($4,700), and the XDCAM F330 ($16,000), I could see a market at, say $8,500. That would place it in direct competition with the Canon XLH1, and I dare say a prosumer XDCAM at that price-range would clean Canon's (and everyone else's) clock.

I'm holding out for a 1/3" 3CCD, handicam-format XDCAM-HD. . . .

That would place it in direct competition with the Canon XLH1, and I dare say a prosumer XDCAM at that price-range would clean Canon's (and everyone else's) clock.Not really. With third-inch CCDs, it would offer nothing over the HVX. Now, if there were an $8,500 HD D5 camera that supported 10-bit 4:2:2; supported 1080p24/30, 1080i, and 720p24/25/30/50/60; had variable frame rates; had dual-link HD-SDI (12-bit 4:4:4); had half-inch CCDs/CMOS chips that were natively at least 1,280 x 720; and had a removable lens -- that would clean everyone's clock.