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Old May 3rd, 2008, 07:13 AM   #1
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Is Apple looking to sell FCP?

So there is at least one pundit that seems to think that Apple is shopping FCP around:

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2...02_004815.html

Mind you, Bob Cringely has a serious weed on that Apple needs to buy Adobe and that Adobe is up for sale. He's been harping this for quite some time now however the complete lack of anything really new out of Apple for it's FCP suite can give one pause for question as to just what is up over at Infinite Loop.
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Old May 3rd, 2008, 08:56 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Phil Hoppes View Post
however the complete lack of anything really new out of Apple for it's FCP suite can give one pause for question
Uh, FCS2 was released just a year ago... which had amongst other tweaks the addition of the Color application. And Final Cut Server was released early April, so what do you mean by "complete lack of anything really new out of Apple for it's FCP suite"?
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Old May 3rd, 2008, 09:41 AM   #3
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Uh, FCS2 was released just a year ago... which had amongst other tweaks the addition of the Color application. And Final Cut Server was released early April, so what do you mean by "complete lack of anything really new out of Apple for it's FCP suite"?
Point well taken. I should have stated my question better. Not having been at NAB my question really is, had anyone who was there gotten the impression that Apple was shopping FCP around? Personally, I believe this to be a bunch of bunk but also having been in high tech for a significant number of years and having also working with Apple on a number of internal projects, I've seen stranger things happen.
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Old May 3rd, 2008, 09:57 AM   #4
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Not having been at NAB my question really is, had anyone who was there gotten the impression that Apple was shopping FCP around?
Apple wasn't at NAB either (or were they?), but I haven't seen anything about the subject that isn't pure unsubstantiated bunk (to be very polite) based on reductive conjecture.
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Old May 3rd, 2008, 01:19 PM   #5
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Apple wasn't at NAB either (or were they?), but I haven't seen anything about the subject that isn't pure unsubstantiated bunk (to be very polite) based on reductive conjecture.
The delay with Blu-Ray support - more importantly, professional support as in DVD Studio Pro - is odd. Given the fact that interface and codecs between HD-DVD and Blu were so similar, it wouldn't be that hard to create an update to DVD Studio Pro. Or at least it wouldn't be too difficult.

Regardless, many of us have been shooting HD for a few years now with no medium other than the net to share. (Which is of course, what Apple wants - rely on iTunes and AppleTV for getting our content.) But for weddings and smaller productions, there's not even the HD option for us yet.

Are we to wait for Adobe on this one?

Positive hints: I believe Apple was up to something at NAB too, and, we're all expecting the big Shake successor, soo... something big has to be around the bend, right?
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Old May 3rd, 2008, 03:43 PM   #6
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Let's see...FCP and Mac revolutionized desktop editing, FCP is the most popular editing program for schools, amateurs and pros alike. Most film schools, journalism and communication programs teach FCP and oh yeah, networks like CBS are dropping AVID for FCP. Why then would Apple dump FCP. Sounds like the guys at AVID are worried to me.
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Old May 3rd, 2008, 07:17 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Mike Barber View Post
Apple wasn't at NAB either (or were they?), but I haven't seen anything about the subject that isn't pure unsubstantiated bunk (to be very polite) based on reductive conjecture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Studio Daily
Anyone who has followed Apple for any length of time knows that other than making good products, the company really doesn’t care much about their customers or what they want anyway so I guess it really doesn’t surprise me as to the reaction I got. Oh well.
Sounds like sour grapes. I've followed Apple for years and they "do" listen to customers. If they hadn't they wouldn't be sitting in the enviable position that they do now. Deciding to go Windows based is the "easy" proposition. So Apple's success has more to do about what they're doing right than wrong. This guy needs to understand that Apple employees are held to more strict standards than many companies. Releasing the wrong info can get you fired

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Ruffell View Post
The delay with Blu-Ray support - more importantly, professional support as in DVD Studio Pro - is odd. Given the fact that interface and codecs between HD-DVD and Blu were so similar, it wouldn't be that hard to create an update to DVD Studio Pro. Or at least it wouldn't be too difficult.

Regardless, many of us have been shooting HD for a few years now with no medium other than the net to share. (Which is of course, what Apple wants - rely on iTunes and AppleTV for getting our content.) But for weddings and smaller productions, there's not even the HD option for us yet.

Are we to wait for Adobe on this one?

Positive hints: I believe Apple was up to something at NAB too, and, we're all expecting the big Shake successor, soo... something big has to be around the bend, right?
Blu-ray support should be coming but in all honesty Blu-ray was even less finished than HD DVD. AACS encryption may have just finalized almost a full two years after the HD formats launched. Basically Blu-ray and HD DVD were Beta products.

I think a bigger reason why Apple didn't exhibit a new FCS is because they have the HUGE task of rewriting the application. I'll explain and try to keep it as simple as possible.

There are two main Application Programming Interface flavors for Mac app development.

Carbon- Provides the best legacy support. When Apple went to OS X they developed Carbon as a somewhat less painful way of moving current apps to OS X.

Cocoa- The new hotness and area in which Apple is devoting most of its resources into. Most new app development is Cocoa because it's more efficient in key ways.

Here's the catch. Carbon will never be fully 64-bit. Apple promised Carbon-64 and then killed it (probably wisely so). Any major app is going to go 64-bit for the memory handling alone. So right now the ONLY way to develop 64-bit apps through and though is to use Cocoa. So guess what Apple is doing right now with their Pro Apps of which most are Carbon based. Rewriting in Cocoa...it's the only way they and others will be able to deliver 64-bit Mac apps.

We may not see a FCS 3 this year. It all depends on the effort involved to rewrite the apps. I think the move to Cocoa will be good for us. But this is yet another painful transition for large software developers with legacy apps. Adobe has already stated that CS Suite 4 will be 32-bit and CS Suite 5 will 64-Bit so they also have the monumental task of rewriting large portions of their apps.

Back to the original question. No Apple is not selling their Pro Apps. And they don't want Adobe. What do you think would be the quickest path. Spending 30 billion dollars on Adobe or simply developing your own suite of programs with a judicious amount of acquisitions. I'm thinking the latter solution is most feasible.

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Old May 3rd, 2008, 07:55 PM   #8
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I think Harrison is correct. This is the 'rumor' that I have heard as well with Cocoa. With the significant increase in user base Apple will not be selling off FCS anytime soon. They are also not interested in buying Adobe. They are interested in crushing Adobe in the Mac OSX turf.

Apple kept their presence at NAB but they just did it without paying for their own booth, no big flash but like Avid they were seen all over the place in the South Hall.
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Old May 4th, 2008, 09:10 AM   #9
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If you ask me, I'd say Adobe is gaining ground on FCP just as Apple did on Avid a few years back. In the last year I've seen more and more people mentioning Adobe as a serious NLE and studio suite where in years past very few people took them too seriously for anything other than AE.

Could it be that their BluRay support has anything to do with this? Could that alone have turned attention their way and people then discovered that their Production Premium suite has quietly become a serious set of tools? Before you dismiss that idea outright, don't forget what turned the tide in FCP's favor a few years ago, namely DVCProHD and HDV support when nobody else was doing HD for less than $40,000 (just a made up number to illustrate a point). That made many people who otherwise would not have even considered FCP take a peek at it and many of those people liked what they saw enough to take the plunge. All that to say watch Adobe in the next year, I think they're picking up steam.

The whole "apple is shopping around FCP" rumor has been circulating for several months now, no clue if it's true or not. Seems they have become more focused on consumer electronics these days so I wouldn't scoff at the notion that they'd at least test the waters and see what their ProApps are worth to someone else. What's the old mantra in business? Buy low, sell high. I'd say FCP's stock is pretty high right now. Just saying.

I do wish that Apple would hurry the @#$& up with some BluRay support.
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Old May 4th, 2008, 01:51 PM   #10
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I'd say Adobe is gaining ground based on their update to Premiere Pro and the leveraging of their other tools in the Production Premium as you state. The Blu-ray authoring is nice but rudimentary. Plus as much as I'd like to say Blu-ray is making an impact it appears too expensive for many consumers

http://www.electronista.com/articles...ictory.hollow/

Quote:
The sales of Blu-ray disc players were expected to skyrocket but a NPD Group study found the opposite. US sales of standalone Blu-ray players fell 40 percent from January to February, still in the midst of the HD DVD fall, before increasing by just two percent in March. This leads many to believe the price of Blu-ray players and media still isn't low enough for mainstream adoption.
Spot on. The average player is still $400 and the movies at retail are roughly 34 dollars. Juxtapose this with higher gas prices...higher food costs and general inflation and you see that currently the Blu-ray progenitors are a bit out of touch with regards to what the masses will pay. There will need to be 300 dollar players and more good movie release by this Holiday shopping season or this format will never supplant DVD.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Apple shopping FCS around just to gauge what it's worth. However Apple Pro Apps are to Mac Pro what iTunes is to iPods. Apple cannot divest their Pro Apps and not lose high margin Mac Pro sales.

I'm certainly looking forward to the next FCS suite. They did a lot of replumbing in the app and I think the next update will be more ambitious regarding new features. The FCS versus Adobe battle will be interesting.
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Old May 5th, 2008, 11:00 AM   #11
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However Apple Pro Apps are to Mac Pro what iTunes is to iPods. Apple cannot divest their Pro Apps and not lose high margin Mac Pro sales. .
That's the most solid point I've seen/heard yet - spot on yourself! The 75% of the reason I went for the Mac Pro (other than the raw power) was the Final Cut Studio Suite!

I've been a mac user since the Mac Plus, went went to PC for a while in 2003-2005, but returned to the Mac out of frustration with the introduction of the Mac Pro - best choice I've made in the past half decade video production-wise!

If Apple sold FCS, It'd be hard to put near as much faith into the suite and the pro Macs themselves.
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Old May 5th, 2008, 03:11 PM   #12
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IT'S OFFICIAL - THEY'RE NOT FOR SALE: In reference to Apple looking to sell off Pro apps:

"I can categorically state, on the record, that is not the case," said Richard Townhill, Apple's director of marketing.

http://tvbeurope.com/index.php?optio...=1269&Itemid=1

Last edited by Christopher Ruffell; May 5th, 2008 at 03:45 PM.
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Old May 5th, 2008, 03:31 PM   #13
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Let's see...FCP and Mac revolutionized desktop editing....
Please, I'm curious as to how.... Being a Premiere guy and all...:-)
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Old May 5th, 2008, 10:18 PM   #14
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"I can categorically state, on the record, that is not the case,"
**cough** this week **cough**

Never, ever, ever take a marketing person at face value, they get paid to skirt around the truth. That's my bit of advice for the day.
Not saying there isnt any validity in what he's saying, just that I don't trust the word of marketing guys.
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Old May 6th, 2008, 12:16 AM   #15
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Maybe it's the other way around. AVID might be shopping their software to Apple. Or Apple could be contemplating buying AVID. Now that would make more sense. Final Cut Pro and AVID under the same roof would clobber the competition and give them a near monopoly on the entire market in both the hardware and software side. I bet it's tempting when you're sitting on US$1 billion in cash, or whatever the amount is nowadays.

Shoot, while I'm dreaming up empires, Apple could then create/buy/develop a separate camcorder division and sell camcorder with an iPhone interface. With Pixar, they'd be on their way to becoming big brother and controlling the world!

Yes, I can see it all now. Yes, muhahahahaahahahahahaha.
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