New HD Products shown at Ceatec in Japan at DVinfo.net

Christopher Toderman · November 3rd, 2003, 01:32 PM

Tape is on the way out

Matsushita (Panasonic) showed a dual layer Blu-ray recorder as well as 50 GB dual layer Blu-ray media. Blu-Ray recorders were also displayed by Pioneer, Sharp, Sony and Victor (JVC). TDK showed a blue laser disc with four layers capable of storing 100 GB and implies this might be implemented in future Blu-Ray specifications. NEC and Toshiba show recorders, drives and media for their competing blue laser format called AOD.

Ken Tanaka · November 3rd, 2003, 03:07 PM

Hello "Joseph". How is that project in Eastern Europe?

Frank Granovski · November 3rd, 2003, 04:04 PM

"Joseph," what are you talking about? The average consumer won't be interested in spending that kind of money for these recorders, thus tape is alive and well.

Joe Carney · November 3rd, 2003, 05:18 PM

this explains why prices for dual format DVD burners are dropping so quickly.

Adrian Douglas · November 3rd, 2003, 07:57 PM

I'm not so sure about the prices dropping, here in Japan consumer blu-ray video recorders go for around 350 000 yen which is around US$3000.

Christopher Toderman · November 4th, 2003, 12:32 AM

8 brands of blu-ray DVD recorders, including Zenith and Samsung, and 6 brands of media are planned to be displayed at 2004 CES. Original laser mechanism used by Sony was expensive. new low cost options are now available. Initially these will have to be purchased directly from Japan because of unresolved copyright issues in the US, where the market will not open until 2005, or 2 years after Japan. Similar to the DAT situation. Prior to that blue laser HD burners will start replacing DVD and CD burners just before DVD burners had a chance to replace CD burners. Tape is definitely on the way out. Flash memory (SD will be No.1, No.2 will be Memory Stick) and optical systems will replace it. 100 layer blue laser DVD systems were already prototyped in Japan, with a new higher power lasser. That means 200 hrs of MPEG2 HD on a disc. Perfect for data storage, low or no compression HD recording, and Ultra definition, which too was repeatedly demonstrated in a prototype version in Japan. So why tape if one 5" disc will store many times more data. Remember the high prices of SACD players? Now they cost 10x less, and are better. So it's $3000 this year, $1000 next year, untill blu-ray costs 99.97 at Wallgreens and Circut City starts selling 3D blu-ray and UD recorders because neither they nor Sony can make any money on that terrible money loser blu-ray HD. Since even Samsung will be showing blu-ray DVD recorder at CES, and they produce things cheaper than japanese, there will be pressure on the Japanese to come out with new technologies quicker. The day will come soon when Samsung will make 3D UD camcorders, before the Japanese will. Sony stock will then become a penny stock and will be all purchased by the new Aibo nation, which was developed secretely to outsmart the humans, because the dumber versions werte no longer profitable. Panasonic was by then purchased by Canon and canon absorbed by Microsoft, but then it quit making cameras, after too many revisions and recalls of new models, which caused its market share to colapse. Bill now fights the Aibo Nation which runs on the playstation platform. Bill in its headquarters uses only apple computers, becuse he does not trust MS operating systems. One of his employees, under NDA, who tried to smuggle out the Apple secret, was just found dead -- of natural causes. Aibos just conqured another nation and are multiplying rapidly. CIA is secretly developing an infected Aibo clone which will be co-mingling with real Aibos. New fuhrer is elected to fight the Aibo expansion. His name is Bill. Had some time between projects. Currently in EE. Who's Joseph?

Chris Hurd · November 4th, 2003, 12:38 AM

Now that would make a damn good movie. I'd pay nine bucks to see that.

Dylan Couper · November 4th, 2003, 08:12 PM

How did you get a copy of my script?!?

Gints Klimanis · November 5th, 2003, 01:41 PM

>Tape is definitely on the way out. Flash memory (SD will be >No.1, No.2 will be Memory Stick) and optical systems will replace >it.

I'm *so* looking forward to the demise of tape (and its bandwidth limitations) as primary video storage. However, will optical systems really be a reliable method
for hand-held recording ?

Who is Joseph?

Christopher Toderman · November 5th, 2003, 02:07 PM

BLU-RAY

CRYSTAL ball-gazers would be aware of a new technology developed by a consortium of consumer electronics manufacturers called Blu-Ray. Hailed as the removable disc recording format to succeed the three DVD recordable formats, Blu-Ray can record 23Gb of content on a single disc -- almost five times the amount currently possible on a DVD.

The Japanese partners involved in the Blu-Ray consortium showed off their prototypes of the technology at Ceatec, which is currently marketed as the recording device for high-definition television.

Only Sony was prepared to place a price on its box -- a whopping $6000.

Verdict: The problem affecting Blu-Ray is that HDTV sucks up gigabytes like a sponge. Only two hours of HDTV can be recorded on a 23Gb Blu-Ray disc, which led to some manufacturers displaying prototypes of double-sided discs with 50Gb capacities.

Just got the above from Japan. I think that the optical system can be very reliable since the disc is in a cartridge.

November 3rd, 2003, 01:32 PM	#1
Christopher Toderman Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: New York Posts: 60	New HD Products shown at Ceatec in Japan Tape is on the way out Matsushita (Panasonic) showed a dual layer Blu-ray recorder as well as 50 GB dual layer Blu-ray media. Blu-Ray recorders were also displayed by Pioneer, Sharp, Sony and Victor (JVC). TDK showed a blue laser disc with four layers capable of storing 100 GB and implies this might be implemented in future Blu-Ray specifications. NEC and Toshiba show recorders, drives and media for their competing blue laser format called AOD.

November 3rd, 2003, 03:07 PM	#2
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Hello "Joseph". How is that project in Eastern Europe? __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

November 3rd, 2003, 07:57 PM	#5
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	I'm not so sure about the prices dropping, here in Japan consumer blu-ray video recorders go for around 350 000 yen which is around US$3000. __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

November 4th, 2003, 12:38 AM	#7
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Now that would make a damn good movie. I'd pay nine bucks to see that. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

November 4th, 2003, 08:12 PM	#8
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	How did you get a copy of my script?!? __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

November 3rd, 2003, 04:04 PM	#3
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	"Joseph," what are you talking about? The average consumer won't be interested in spending that kind of money for these recorders, thus tape is alive and well.

November 3rd, 2003, 05:18 PM	#4
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	this explains why prices for dual format DVD burners are dropping so quickly.

November 4th, 2003, 12:32 AM	#6
Christopher Toderman Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: New York Posts: 60	8 brands of blu-ray DVD recorders, including Zenith and Samsung, and 6 brands of media are planned to be displayed at 2004 CES. Original laser mechanism used by Sony was expensive. new low cost options are now available. Initially these will have to be purchased directly from Japan because of unresolved copyright issues in the US, where the market will not open until 2005, or 2 years after Japan. Similar to the DAT situation. Prior to that blue laser HD burners will start replacing DVD and CD burners just before DVD burners had a chance to replace CD burners. Tape is definitely on the way out. Flash memory (SD will be No.1, No.2 will be Memory Stick) and optical systems will replace it. 100 layer blue laser DVD systems were already prototyped in Japan, with a new higher power lasser. That means 200 hrs of MPEG2 HD on a disc. Perfect for data storage, low or no compression HD recording, and Ultra definition, which too was repeatedly demonstrated in a prototype version in Japan. So why tape if one 5" disc will store many times more data. Remember the high prices of SACD players? Now they cost 10x less, and are better. So it's $3000 this year, $1000 next year, untill blu-ray costs 99.97 at Wallgreens and Circut City starts selling 3D blu-ray and UD recorders because neither they nor Sony can make any money on that terrible money loser blu-ray HD. Since even Samsung will be showing blu-ray DVD recorder at CES, and they produce things cheaper than japanese, there will be pressure on the Japanese to come out with new technologies quicker. The day will come soon when Samsung will make 3D UD camcorders, before the Japanese will. Sony stock will then become a penny stock and will be all purchased by the new Aibo nation, which was developed secretely to outsmart the humans, because the dumber versions werte no longer profitable. Panasonic was by then purchased by Canon and canon absorbed by Microsoft, but then it quit making cameras, after too many revisions and recalls of new models, which caused its market share to colapse. Bill now fights the Aibo Nation which runs on the playstation platform. Bill in its headquarters uses only apple computers, becuse he does not trust MS operating systems. One of his employees, under NDA, who tried to smuggle out the Apple secret, was just found dead -- of natural causes. Aibos just conqured another nation and are multiplying rapidly. CIA is secretly developing an infected Aibo clone which will be co-mingling with real Aibos. New fuhrer is elected to fight the Aibo expansion. His name is Bill. Had some time between projects. Currently in EE. Who's Joseph?

November 5th, 2003, 01:41 PM	#9
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	>Tape is definitely on the way out. Flash memory (SD will be >No.1, No.2 will be Memory Stick) and optical systems will replace >it. I'm so looking forward to the demise of tape (and its bandwidth limitations) as primary video storage. However, will optical systems really be a reliable method for hand-held recording ? Who is Joseph?

November 5th, 2003, 02:07 PM	#10
Christopher Toderman Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: New York Posts: 60	BLU-RAY CRYSTAL ball-gazers would be aware of a new technology developed by a consortium of consumer electronics manufacturers called Blu-Ray. Hailed as the removable disc recording format to succeed the three DVD recordable formats, Blu-Ray can record 23Gb of content on a single disc -- almost five times the amount currently possible on a DVD. The Japanese partners involved in the Blu-Ray consortium showed off their prototypes of the technology at Ceatec, which is currently marketed as the recording device for high-definition television. Only Sony was prepared to place a price on its box -- a whopping $6000. Verdict: The problem affecting Blu-Ray is that HDTV sucks up gigabytes like a sponge. Only two hours of HDTV can be recorded on a 23Gb Blu-Ray disc, which led to some manufacturers displaying prototypes of double-sided discs with 50Gb capacities. Just got the above from Japan. I think that the optical system can be very reliable since the disc is in a cartridge.