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Old July 3rd, 2004, 04:26 PM   #226
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Daniel

Canon is in fact one of the founding members of the HDV consortium. But remember what I've been telling you guys. What does history teach us? When DV was introduced in 1995, Sony jumped on it with the very successful VX1000. How long until Canon responded with a DV camcorder of their own? Not until November 1997 with the original Optura and the XL1. Canon has never been known to be the first on the block with anything. They have a reputation for being the last major manufacturer to play their hand.
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Old July 3rd, 2004, 04:28 PM   #227
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::sigh::

This is not the rousing canon hype that I was hoping for.

Barry, I understand the market that you're talking about and believe me I thoroughly enjoyed using the manual (14x) lens on my xl1's (plural). I had just come to hope for a huge leap in the technology not merely the next step. I guess on the plus side if canon does simply just bump everything up a notch, maybe then Juan's mod (in othe alternative imaging forum) won't have too much difficulty adapting to this new camera. Either way I don't think the sales of this particular camera will hold up when a real HDV camera is released, but who knows when that will be.
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Old July 3rd, 2004, 09:10 PM   #228
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<<<-- Originally posted by Daniel Broadway : Looks like Amazon.com is selling the XL1s for $3500. Could be a sign. Like Chris says, look at history.


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...photo&n=172282 -->>>

And now they have it a bit higher ($4,500).
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Old July 3rd, 2004, 10:19 PM   #229
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if anyone needs a reason to feel better,
by looking at history we can also see that Canon has always upgraded a camera once before radically changing it.

THe XL1 was already upgraded to the XL1s.
It is due for a radical change.

I doubt all we'll see is an upgrade with a few little tweaks.
I'm not saying it will be HD, but it will definitely be worth
the wait.

Just my guess.

-Luis
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Old July 3rd, 2004, 11:05 PM   #230
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It's getting annoying, all this unwarranted hopefulness about the 2nd coming (or is it the 3rd?). So, Canonites, mull over this prognostication.

Here's how I call it: We won't see anything more in the VL series from Canon. They've discontinued the XL1s and from now on, I expect they'll produce lower cost consumer camcorders and focus on their strong area of production, which is still cameras and lenses for them. They may not make even single-CCD camcorders in a few years.

Who could blame them? I don't imagine video has been very profitable for them, compared to their primary products. Sony has battered them, in terms of video market share, while Canon has far outdone Sony with still cameras. If you have any of the five VL models, hang onto them-----they'll be real collector's items.

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Old July 3rd, 2004, 11:20 PM   #231
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Contest Prizes?

By the way, if my predictions win the contest, what's my prize? A kick in the pants, I imagine.

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Old July 3rd, 2004, 11:54 PM   #232
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the XL1 belongs to the VL body line, I think that is what he was kinda saying.

I guess all we can do is wait and wait.. the arguments are starting to repeat themselves 3 or 4 times in the same thread now.

As for Sony taking the market share... true but to me they are on the bottom of the pile. I just got hired to shoot a commercial with 3 pd150s today. I must tell you, it by far is the most useless camera I have ever used. No focus marks, not zoom marks, I dont know what the hell good those things are. I missed my DVX sorely and woulda prefered it, but man I woulda traded those 3 pd150's for a single XL1s in a heartbeat, even with the Worst lens Canon has ever made, the stock one that comes with the camera.

And as for HDV.. I betcha the XL2 will have it in some form, the 18 months isnt a good guideline, remember JVC has had thier version on the shelves for quite some time, out before even the Spec was finallized. I have a feeling all the manufactures had a head start.
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Old July 3rd, 2004, 11:58 PM   #233
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history?

So, Chris, going by mini-dv history, Panasonic would continue to be dead-last in 3-chip prosumer mini-dv...?

Seems like someone has learned from history and decided to do something about it for the better.

Here's hoping that Canon can do the same.

HDV or bust!
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Old July 4th, 2004, 11:31 AM   #234
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Jarred I was put in the same position as you with the pd150 and I remember thnking the exact same thing. I also really want to agree with you on the HDV thing, unfortunately I doubt it will happen.
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Old July 4th, 2004, 12:38 PM   #235
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For those who may not be aware, the Canon VL product line was composed of the old Hi-8 camcorders with interchangeable lenses, from the early '90's. They have absolutely nothing in common with the XL camcorders, except for the concept of interchangeable lenses. The VL series (the Canon L1, L2, LX100) each had a single 1/2" CCD and a "VL" lens mount (entirely incompatible with the later XL, by the way). The VL line was discontinued -- I think the last new ones sold out in in 1994 -- and Canon spent the next few years re-tooling for the new XL line, which debuted with the XL1 in 1998 (contrary to the opinions of some, the XL1 is six and a half years old, not a decade).

The L1 and L2 were outwardly identical with the only difference being a newer CCD in the L2 and a few other refinements. The LX100 and LX200 were black-body "pro" versions with dust-sealed tape door gaskets. There were three VL lenses, including a 3x wide, a 10x standard, and a 15x with OIS. And there were EF and FD photo lens adapters. The VL line grew out of the original Canon A1 series of Hi-8 camcorders... an L1 was an A1 with interchangeable lenses. An XL1 is an entirely different thing altogether.

When Steve McDonald predicted "we won't see anything new in the VL line," he was making what I thought was a pretty funny joke, considering that the VL line was discontinued about ten years ago.

For those who for whatever reason may be looking for a Hi-8 camcorder, I can't recommend these things although you can find them on Ebay occasionally. They suffer the same issue that plagues all Hi-8 camcorders over eight or ten years old: leaking capacitors, which completely ruin a camcorder. They're very expensive to replace. You can tell when they've started leaking when you detect a "rotten egg" smell inside the tape transport chassis. Very common among all older Hi-8's from the early '90's.

There's your history lesson for today -- hope this helps,
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Old July 4th, 2004, 12:51 PM   #236
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My dealers says XL1s is discontinued but plays dumb on replacement specs

I've picked up a pocket b-cam (Optura 40) at my local cam shop (www.carolinacamera.com) that is a pretty big authorized Canon dealer, though mostly on the 35mm SLR side. I had planned on getting an Optura Xi, but it turned out to also be discontinued.

Without any questions of comments from me, they said the XL1s also was discontinued i.e. they cannot order it from Canon anymore and second, it's replacement is due in a couple of weeks. Specs - they said, "er, we have not seen any yet but it's supposed to be killer". Both senior sales managers stated this.

Interesting. They tend to be a little behind on video products in general, so if they heard it's been discountined, I would tend to think this is in fact true.
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Old July 4th, 2004, 12:55 PM   #237
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It was only recently that I remembered that my first camcorder purchase, somewhere around '89, was the Canon F1000S, a repackaging of the first SVHS camcorder, the Panasonic AG-450 (? do I have that model number correct?) with some minor differences. I beat that thing senseless for about 7 years.
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Old July 4th, 2004, 01:30 PM   #238
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I believe that was Canon's *only* S-VHS camcorder, Charles. Probably a collector's item now...
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Old July 4th, 2004, 01:41 PM   #239
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Chris Hurd wrote: I wonder how politically incorrect we could get if we actually did start to do some social profiling based on camcorder choice. Heh. Is there an "on the fast track to becoming an old fart" camcorder? Sign me up.


Chris and Pappy,

Would the F1000S qualify as an "old fart" camcorder?

- don
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Old July 4th, 2004, 01:59 PM   #240
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Ohh, ok, that was just a mis understanding on my part. I thought he meant that Canon would not sell prosumer gear anymore.

I think that would be sad. Although, Panasonic seems to be doing pretty well with making some interesting advnacements with prosumer stuff.
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