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Old July 8th, 2004, 11:19 AM   #271
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Jarred, I wasn't reading you wrong, just joking around.

Seriously, which scenes in the opening do you think were shot in 35mm? The movie opens with the monkey's in the lab, right? From there we go to the hospital.

I'm pretty sure that was all XL1 footage.
I have to agree with Charles, the difference between the 35mm and the DV footage was like night and day to me at the end of the film. And, although the gritty look of DV worked for the style of the film, it did work against it at points (for me), pulling me out of the movie. Then again, that may just be the nature of the beast due to the work that I do. Many of the people I was with didn't think twice about what the film was shot on, and a few didn't even notice that it switched to 35mm at the end.

Either way, we agree, content is the key.
The eyes will adjust to the format, as long as the viewer is engaged (which of course should be the goal regardless of the format we are shooting on).

-Luis

ps.
Hopefully this won't be an issue with the new XL.
I guess we'll know in 6 more days.

(just trying to keep this thread on topic somewhat)
:)
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Old July 8th, 2004, 11:22 AM   #272
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as for the 35mm.. There is a long road to the production of Film.. They tried first to shoot the ending on DV but the cost of the Jets etc. they didnt want to mess around, so they shot the ending on 35mm, and pinned the Artistic change to it.

Thats the time the story was given to the press, so most things you read will show the above, minus the attempt at trying to do it in DV.

Then, later on Fox coughed up some more cash after production to do reshoots in 35mm for some scenes that just didnt work on DV. Some of these where at the beggining, and if you watch the DVD you can even tell the changes.

There is no question though that the majority of the movie was 35mm.
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Old July 8th, 2004, 11:49 AM   #273
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The company that produced "November" - InDigEnt - seems to be on the right track as a model for indie features. Name talent and/or directors+compelling stories=profit, regardless of format.

www.indigent.net/

The common flaws that people associate with "video" have everything to do with sloppy production and nearly nothing to do with the limits of the medium. I've only seen one of their productions "Tadpole", but it was a fairly straightforward narrative film and the fact that it was shot on a PAL PD-150 never took me out of the story. It was shot like a decent low budget feature, and I responded to it as one. The fact that Sundence awarded cinematography prizes to “Personal Velocity” and "November" tells me the walls are already broken down. More speculative films will be shot than ever before, and the cost of 35mm transfer loaded into the distribution deal afterwards. Moviess don't even need "film out" for the major festivals anymore. I can't help but see this as good news for filmmakers everywhere, and this includes cinematographers.

I'm curious if you folks have seen any of the InDigEnt productions, and care to comment. It seems that HDV or some flavor of low-cost HD will go a long way to being a nail in the coffin for film-based production outside of Hollywood. No new info here, it's just that I'm happy to see the tide turning.
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Old July 8th, 2004, 12:02 PM   #274
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Ive seen them all.. and the stories have all been so good, that even I forgot about the whole DV thing.

Pieces of April was great, and Personal Velocity everyone should buy because it has a pretty good DV primer in the special features section that shows how they adapter for Video.
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Old July 8th, 2004, 12:27 PM   #275
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Gary Winick of Indigent (Tadpole) is now directing 50 million dollar studio features. The end game always seems to be to get out of video onto film.


However, if you have a great script, you could shoot in Fisher Pixelvision and still advance your career at a festival.

Of course, that's a big "if". Lot's of people have scripts, some people have scripts that are 85% there, but very very few have a script with the talent and massive rewrites necessary to get them to them to 100%.

Gives you something to do while waiting for new cams *L*
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Old July 8th, 2004, 03:44 PM   #276
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My Dealer confirms the XL2 is coming

I was at my local camera store and they were in a tizzy about the XL2. Funny, since I had been hunting for news all over the net about this cam on and off for years, and now it just fallls in my lap without me lifting a finger.

My dealer said they talked to their Canon rep yesterday?.

The "XL2" (that's what the referred to it, but I would not be surprised if that's more by habit than accuracy) will announced Monday in NY at DV Expo.

It will have "for sure" according to the store:

(1) 24p (24fps full progressive)
(2) Different Lens (wider but with extended telephoto though their were fuzzy on actual numbers)
(3) A "vastly extended feature set" whatever that means.
(4) List price to be "$700-800" higher than current XL1 pricing
(5) Interchangeable lenses

The other details were more sketchy as it was the store talking to Canon yesterday via phone according to the conversation.

(1) 16:9 - probably but not sure if that's stretched or native
(2) HD/HDV - Store was pretty sure HD was "assumed" to be part of the package but I got the sense they forgot to ask about this so it's a big unknown.

So I guess DV Expo will be a blast for Canon watchers after all. Have fun - I'm going on vacation on Saturday for a week, so I'm sure DVInfo will be staggering under the weight of discussion.
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Old July 8th, 2004, 04:48 PM   #277
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Very cool. And very exciting.
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Old July 8th, 2004, 05:28 PM   #278
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HD is automatically 16x9 native, is it not?

Hmmm, let's see...about 4500 bucks list price. Sounds reasonable, I think that HD chips are only 500 bucks each...Plus a grand for a lens...(can you get an HD lense for a grand?)....a couple hundred for batteries...

Let's say 6 geees. Oh yeah, the microphone...7 gees.

I'm still sold if they changed the form factor to make it balance better.

<---------- rubbing hands together.
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Old July 8th, 2004, 05:40 PM   #279
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HD is automatically 16:9. However, 16:9 is not automatically HD. Some people get confused on that point.
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Old July 8th, 2004, 07:42 PM   #280
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I don't want to be the barer of bad news but HD glass isn't going to be a grand. It won't be two or even three, think in the teen's as a LOW price point.

I went to the DVX users group in L.A. where they screened NOvember and had a querstion answer section with the DP. Personally I wans't a huge fan of the movie, but that's my personal preference. They still hadn't done a blow up of it at the time I watched it I believe we were the first to see it blown up to HD (anyone else who was there feel free to correct me on that)

But maybe we're all being a little too hopeful for HDV. I mean won't the motion artifacting be pretty awful? Has anyone seen DVX footage on an HD TV it don't look that bad, better then broadcast SD. Even IF sony releases their balsa cam in January, it would still just be 1080i which would effectively be 540 lines of resolution and that's just 60 more then the dvx 100 (xl2?) Then factor in the lack of interchangeable glass for it and suddenly the sony doesn't look so hot.

I"m not keen on the whole 800 bucks more as I think this would be the first time I bought a NEW xl1 instead of buting off ebay. (I want a warreenty darnit!)

Michael, I think 1 gee for a mic is still alittle high, (unless you're thinking something like the MKH416) which is something you'd probably just want to purchase after the fact and wouldn't be included with the camera.

I wonder if the vastly different feature set means you'll eb able to do some digital painting, or oh better yet they'll have a mini 35 like adapter built in so you won't have to spend an extra 8 grand (at least) to get decent DOF off the camera. Or maybe it means you'll be able to Jam timecode, so you could have in effect a real "film" camera at your disposel. My only question will be how long before they replace the standard lens for a manual one.
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Old July 8th, 2004, 07:52 PM   #281
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Chris, if this "XL2" is released next week, can we count on you for the best info out there about it? And if so, what day will you be giving us this accurate info?

Also, just to save us time, can you confirm or deny the existance of the Canon XL2? (ha ha, that wasn't subtle at all, was it?)

I hate NDAs. :-)
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Old July 8th, 2004, 07:59 PM   #282
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<<<-- Originally posted by Daniel Broadway : Chris, if this "XL2" is released next week, can we count on you for the best info out there about it? And if so, what day will you be giving us this accurate info?

Also, just to save us time, can you confirm or deny the existance of the Canon XL2? (ha ha, that wasn't subtle at all, was it?)

I hate NDAs. :-) -->>>


This area 51 - nothing can be confirmed or denied :)

NDA's are actually an extremely useful item, having signed a number myself in my corporate computer years. Yes, people bug you like crap (Chris is a real trouper for putting up with all of us - I really think he should be getting fabuously rich off running this bad boy) but it really helps a company get input and feedback outside while retaining their competitive advantages in new products.

While Panasonic and Sony like to announce cams way before hand, they may have both tipped the hand of Canon early enough in Canon's development cycle than Canon gets the upper hand as the "best prosumer/low-end pro cam".

As popular and well-designed as the DVX100 series is, there are way more XL1 and XL1s out there. If the XL2 or whatever it's called in a "DVX-killer", Panasonic's reign in the sun could be in doubt.

Panasonic did do a great job with the DVX100a - a bunch of improvements in a very short cycle, maybe they can do that again once the XL2 is out. Maybe not. It's an interesting time for sure.
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Old July 8th, 2004, 08:14 PM   #283
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Yes, I understand NDAs are helpful. I was just joking. I hope I didn't annoy Chris. I was just messin with him.
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Old July 8th, 2004, 08:15 PM   #284
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this Monday?
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Old July 8th, 2004, 08:28 PM   #285
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<<<-- Originally posted by Josh Brusin : this Monday? -->>>

yep. DV Expo is next week.
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