FCP O(ver)? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > And Now, For Something Completely Different... > Area 51

Area 51
We can neither confirm nor deny its existence.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old June 19th, 2012, 08:07 AM   #1
Trustee
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 1,327
FCP O(ver)?

Okay, I think we all can agree that FCP-X has not been greeted with the kind of response most companies would desire. Going through the hours and hours of tutorials, I find some cool features, but so many new hot keys to learn and such a 'think different' way of editing, I keep asking myself, "Do I really need this hassle just so I can ... wait for it ... start to crawl ... and maybe begin to finally edit again? My God, I could have put together a movie by the time I'm up to speed."

I just went to a website dedicated to FCP and its users (my first time). Maybe I am missing something, but under the "NEWS and ANNOUNCEMENTS" forum, the last post was made May 8th. Since that time there have been some Apple announcements - as in the RETINA laptops, and yet, nothing on this website about it. Hmmm.

On another site, I see that RED has joined with HP and Adobe to deliver turn key RED tower.
This from a Company who once embraced the Mac. Their leadership is now using HP because Apple cannot even support the resolutions they need even if they stayed with Apple?!

Another editors user group has changed its name and dropped the Final Cut from it.

Each of these doesn't mean a whole lot by itself, but taken as a whole, even if Apple is still on the professional's side, but being perceived as 'gone off the cliff, are the professionals now all fed up to the point where Apple's reign is DUN?

Thoughts?
__________________
Jacques Mersereau
University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager
Jacques Mersereau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2012, 01:56 AM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 782
Re: FCP O(ver)?

Hi Jacques.
I noticed the RED/HP info earlier today on REDUSER and noted the various arguments.

I agree with you about FCP X and I know I can't be bothered. Their strategies are too unstable. Who knows what they'll do next year with regards to editing software? They dismantled Final Cut Studio. It was the lack of a suite that made me buy the Adobe Production Premium.

The real question I have been asking myself recently (since Adobe runs on both platforms) is, "Why stay on the Mac?"

The answer is 100% to do with OS X. Is the premium you have to pay on the hardware worth it just to use OS X? For me, the answer is yes.

Some people have a great affinity for computers. Both their hardware and the software and operating systems. I know of at least 2 friends who love to pull computers to pieces and put them back together again and write code, etc. just for pleasure.

My affinity for computers is of a different kind. Mine has to do with the "user experience". I prefer simply to use the computer, not to be its mechanic. And I like it to be an aesthetic experience too. I don't like to worry about the computer or fix or tweak anything once I pull it out of the box and turn it on. And this has been my experience with OS X for the last decade.

There's the never-ending learning curve regarding cameras (as they constantly evolve) and all of the new Adobe suite tools. I don't really have enough time for that, let alone studying IT so I could successfully move to Windows. And then having to haunt the IT forums to get the latest "bug fixes" and "workarounds" to keep everything working at 100% (as new graphics cards, processors and motherboards are introduced). That's quite a commitment if I'm going to use Windows successfully.

I don't wish to be a mechanic. Simply a user. That leaves my focus on shooting footage, editing and scriptwriting. For now, I'm going to stay in the Apple eco-system (where all of the info on my Apple devices sync around OS X).

I'm wondering if the PC vs Mac discussions (like the above-mentioned REDUSER thread) are really just mechanics vs users? Where the mechanics don't get why someone would just want to use a computer and not care a thing about what lies "under the hood". I could be wrong about this.

But that's where Apple left me after kicking FCS and FCP to the kerb (wondering why I stay on the platform). For now, the answer is OS X and its integration with the hardware.
David Knaggs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2012, 08:44 AM   #3
Trustee
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 1,327
Re: FCP O(ver)?

I agree with everything you say David.
Apple has found solid gold with their various consumer devices, and what they have accomplished is truly remarkable, but the golden magnet is drawing them and resources away from the professional audio and video market's needs because the big coin isn't there.

I do think the new Retina laptops are worthy, but like you, I am almost being forced to buy and use Adobe for my all the various video needs.
__________________
Jacques Mersereau
University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager
Jacques Mersereau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2012, 04:28 PM   #4
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Arizona
Posts: 44
Re: FCP O(ver)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Knaggs View Post
.

I'm wondering if the PC vs Mac discussions (like the above-mentioned REDUSER thread) are really just mechanics vs users? Where the mechanics don't get why someone would just want to use a computer and not care a thing about what lies "under the hood". I could be wrong about this.
Came over here from the iPad thread, David, and found this part of your post extremely interesting. I do a little of both - hardware tinkering and just wanting to be a user, but I think you may have nailed this on the head :)

Deborah
Deborah Gallegos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2012, 06:43 PM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Posts: 3,760
Re: FCP O(ver)?

FCPX is building up just as FCP 1 did.

best FCPX specific set
Home - FCPX Final Cut Pro X News Articles Tutorials Effects Plugins and more
example
Using FCPX on long format broadcast productions - fcp.co

gatherer of all things FCPX
FCPX.TV All things Final Cut Pro X FCPX FCP X

Alex Gollner
alex4d: Editing organazized

Oliver Peters regional TV spot
Into the fire with FCP X digitalfilms

Alban Egger is doing broadcast work
eggermedia - your image company - Gear Blog

Apple's promotional stuff
Apple - Final Cut Pro X - In Action

I know a number of professionals using it for broadcast work. Some are refusing to talk about it publicly because they feel they will be treated with hostility.

Apple has been making the rounds to users groups.
At the recent Blackmagic Design road show they did a presentation and had a table next to Avid and Adobe. I've heard some are using it specifically for field work. MLB, some ABC affiliates, NBA, Radical Media did a national spot for Smirnoff with it.

It's not a large number by any means but as the feature set grows it's creeping in.

It's not like any other NLE and people who try to do things "the old way" will get frustrated immediately. It's still missing key features but there's a few more major updates coming over the next few months.
Craig Seeman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2012, 07:00 PM   #6
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Arizona
Posts: 44
Re: FCP O(ver)?

I follow several FCPX blogs and love Home - FCPX Final Cut Pro X News Articles Tutorials Effects Plugins and more

The Alban Egger one you posted the link to above has some really great stuff that I wasn't aware of... thanks!

I'm in the minority, apparently, that finds FCPX so much easier and better than FCP7. Just now trying to learn Motion, also. There are some great, free video tutorials over on MacBreak Studio for both FCPX and Motion.

Deborah
Deborah Gallegos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2012, 07:43 PM   #7
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 1,384
Re: FCP O(ver)?

Interesting thread so I'll post a few thoughts being not only an Apple user for over 25 years, but a Pro Tools, FCP, and Adobe user and a full time pro in the production world.

All I will say about FCPX is it just doesn't work for me and the many clients I have who are shooter/editors. I gave it a fair shake and even went through every tutorial I could find. Done.

I have to keep my Mac hardware (2009 MP, the last 17" MBP - both completely maxed out with upgrades) as
I have a lot of clients that like to revise old videos which live in FCP with the thousands of dollars of plugins that were used to create them. I have used Pro Tools longer than my last intern has been alive. It's perfect and works flawlessly on both macs.

Since I purchased Production Premium years ago, I've kept up with the updates and rely on AI, AE, PS and AME daily. Up until a couple of months ago I'd never opened Premier. Now with CS6 and a video card that takes full advantage of the software, it made sense to dig in and learn it. I've officially made it policy to start new projects in premier. works great!

Looking to the next computer upgrade, I am seriously considering a windows machine. For the amount of dough I'd drop on a MP fully specced out, I could get a windows machine...maybe two...with enough horsepower to drain our power grid and certainly outperform the MP. As much as I have been loyal to Apple, I've always looked at my friends with Windows machines who spent a fraction of what I did with a bit of jealousy. Now that I'm going to a software solution that works perfectly on Windows....makes sense to save some money!
__________________
A7RII, C100, 1Dx, 5Dmk3, 70D, Kessler goodies, Adobe, Pro Tools and more!
Robert Turchick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2012, 08:33 PM   #8
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Posts: 3,760
Re: FCP O(ver)?

I have 30 years experience in post. over 10 years on Avid before 10 years on FCP.

FCPX is a major step forward in design even though the features are still very much under development which is understandable given its youth.

Every since I first use Avid around 1990 I felt tracks were a kludge. They're used for cross purposes for both compositing and organization which I've felt was an inherently flawed design. With FCPX clips can be layered for compositing while Roles function to organize.

In other NLEs having to move groups of clips and composites meant fighting clip collisions and have to create space in advance, usually further down the timeline. In FCPX, the clips and their composites are connected. They can easily be relocated while the clips in the targeted location get out of the way. Once it's there you're better capable of examining any trims you need to do.

NLEs were always tied to self contained projects with it's sequences held within and bins which generally locked you into "single purpose" organizing. FCPX Events and Projects (while I don't like the names chosen) are the root for a very powerful relational database. A timeline (Project) can be tied to any number of Events and, vice versa, any number of Events can be tied to any number of timelines (Projects). This allows for much more complex development.

Additionally Keyword Collections and Smart Collections allow clips tagged for multipurpose use. Any clip can be tagged under several simultaneous keywords, e.g. two shot, exterior, night, Chicago, John, Jane. Depending on what I'm looking for, the same clip can be in all those places at once. Smart Collections allow for combinations and, like smart folders in Spotlight or Mail can grow dynamically as media comes in. Any portion of any clip can be in any number of these collections so you're not limited to entire clips or creating subclips.

Whereas in other NLEs you either have only one In/out pair per clip. Favorites allows you to have multiple in/out pairs saved per clip and you can even use the function to reject section and remove them from the search.

While there's a long list of features I'd like to see and many of the above features still need improvement, the fundamental direction allow for much more complex organizing yet doing that far faster than I've seen in other NLEs.
Craig Seeman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2012, 03:49 PM   #9
Trustee
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 1,562
Re: FCP O(ver)?

I've been using FCPX for a year now, and whilst it required a lot of 'unlearning', I'm sold on the concept of the magnetic timeline, of keywording, skimming and so on.

I know I'm 2x to 3x faster at cutting in FCPX because of the way it works rather than the hardware behind it.

It's actually fun. Wickedly quick. Some excellent 3rd party solutions to go with it.

But...

For the third time in a year, I have an event/project that is toast and will require me to start again because the backups have backed up the problem or the media linking is completely screwed - issues with the Symbolic Links which went wrong on hundreds of files cannot be edited, Events disappearing (or more accurately, going from a multi-megabyte file to 73k - where did that data go?), footage that won't relink (not just because Adobe Premiere ran its paws all over it). Projects going bad and preventing FCPX from opening. The database structure is currently too fragile for a busy production environment with lots of concurrent projects and media dispersed over a variety of disks. To keep it mirrored and with a manual versioning system in place, robs it of all its advantages.

I'll try again in a few years. Meanwhile, with a heavy heart, I must switch over to Premiere CS6.
__________________
Director/Editor - MDMA Ltd: Write, Shoot, Edit, Publish - mattdavis.pro
EX1 x2, C100 --> FCPX & PPro6
Matt Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2012, 03:52 PM   #10
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Posts: 3,760
Re: FCP O(ver)?

You should tell Apple about this. I've heard they have been responding directly in some cases.
Craig Seeman is online now   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > And Now, For Something Completely Different... > Area 51

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:20 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network