Samurai $1495

[Leonard Levy]

Just got an email from Atamos taking pre-orders for the Samurai this summer. The price was only $1495 . Wasn't it originally supposed to be much higher - somewhere around $2500?

I had been planning on a sound devices unit, but that's a big difference in price. Anyone remember what the advantage was for sound devices besides reputation for reliability?

Any experience with the Ninja's reliability out there?

Don't know what features the monitor will have yet.

[James Houk]

The Samurai does look attractive, but the Sound Devices Pix 240 does have a multitude of additional features:

*Avid DNxHD support (optional addon)
*Standard BNC Connectors (Samurai uses Mini BNC)
*Dual XLR input with Ultra low-noise (-128 dBu) mic preamps with phantom, limiters, line input (based on 7-Series recorders) Coming fron Sound devices, I would expect excellent audio quality
*XLR Line out
*Time Code & Genlock
*Compact Flash media supported, as well as 2.5" drives
*Has both HD-SDI & HDMI.
*LANC Control
*Keyboard input
*Appears to be a rugged field ready metal chassis.


So, you do get some more features for the money... question is... do you need them?

[Giuseppe Pugliese]

yeah but theres also an extra $1,000 to the price tag for those extras

[Dave Sperling]

Originally Posted by Leonard Levy

Anyone remember what the advantage was for sound devices besides reputation for reliability?

Any experience with the Ninja's reliability out there?

A little over a month ago a producer I work with bought a Ninja to go with his F3. We were a bit rushed getting going and couldn't quite figure out a decent workable configuration for recording to it and having a client monitor (the shoot was at 24p) and I ended up pulling out my NanoFlash and had everything configured and working in a few seconds. The producer sent me an email the next day saying 'Nano Rocks!' and returned his Ninja.

I took a quick look at the Sound Devices recorder at NAB and was impressed with it. It's obviously larger than my NanoFlash (and burns more power), but its biggest selling points (in my mind) besides 10-bit recording are its xlr inputs. I was obviously looking at Beta firmware, bit it seemed pretty easy to use those inputs to add 2 channels (analog audio) or more (using AES-EBU) to your recording, while keeping the two channels from the camera, to give you the option of recording up to 8 tracks of audio with your video. This seems like a great feature, and since I'm a big fan of the Sound Devices mixers (and their preamps) I think their recorder will be a multitrack option I can trust. Obviously it's more expensive, but it really seems like a product I can trust. The one potential limitation is that I'm not sure how you would go about doing extremely long continuous roll recording, given its memory configuration.

Just my personal impressions, and obviously the Sound Devices isn't out there yet...

[Nate Weaver]

Originally Posted by Dave Sperling

A little over a month ago a producer I work with bought a Ninja to go with his F3. We were a bit rushed getting going and couldn't quite figure out a decent workable configuration for recording to it and having a client monitor (the shoot was at 24p) and I ended up pulling out my NanoFlash and had everything configured and working in a few seconds..

well, you know this is all about the camera and not the ninja, right?

I think I get your point, but the Samurai is supposedly going to sidestep all that silliness.

How happy are you with Ninjas interface, speed, reliability so far?

[Dave Sperling]

No grounds for judging.
As I mentioned, the producer returned it the next day (after spending another day trying to configure it to work for him.) He apparently did spend some time talking to Atomos tech support and he said they were very responsive, but at that point the firmware version couldn't do what he needed. I wasn't personally in on the conversations, so I don't have all the details.

[Andrew Stone]

If I had to choose between the 2, I would hands down go for the Sound Devices unit. There are lots of things about the unit that make the Sound Devices appealing. The sound pres and timecode/genlock alone are sufficient. The ergos/functionality of the unit are way better in my view. The company has an unassailable reputation for devices that are meant for and can withstand the rigors of a production environment and I could go on. The feature list is quite impressive when you look at it and you can tell, once employed on a camera, it would a joy to use when in the studio or in the field...

Not sure why some people spend the kind of money they do on an F3, pour thousands into lenses, tripods, matteboxes, rails contraptions and then cheap out on devices that record footage to a company without a track record or a very short one. Maybe some have run out of money or haven't thought it through.

I would also feature track record and company after support into the buying decision matrix. This is what almost everyone here would do if it were a lens or a camera. A solid state recorder should be no different. Again this is your footage that you are talking about. Who of all the companies makes that test?

I would say for recorders under 10K...

Convergent Design (successful units with superb after support)
Sound Devices (untested unit but superb reputation for devices and after support)
AJA (recorders have had issues but fixed and superb after support)

The rest either have a near zero track record or a questionable approach to product delivery and suppport.

Something to think about.

[Nate Weaver]

The Sound Devices is clearly going to be a really solid unit.

But it was a lot of stuff I don't need, and it's bigger than I'd like...it's almost a cube which is going to make it awkward for handheld work. I won't stick stuff on rails out the back of the camera because it gets in the way when things get hot and heavy. Handheld tracking shots through doors at hour 16/2am is when those appendages bite the dust. Been there, done that.

So it's a tough call...right size, right price, right features (Samurai) but no track record, vs slightly too big, too many connections/features, slightly too much $$ (Pix).

I'll prob wind up with a Pix anyway, but it's a really tough call.

[Nate Weaver]

BTW, I found this out recently and don't think it's common knowledge quite yet, but Atomos is comprised of some former Blackmagic hardware people.

Definitely no track record yet, but so far I've been impressed with what I've seen.

YouTube - NAB 2011: Atomos Ninja and Samurai, 10bit uncompressed field recorder and monitor

[Leonard Levy]

My gut feeling is with Nate so far. Sound Devices will be better , but I don't need any of the extra features except unusual situations suitable for renting. Size is most important. Unfortunately its monitor won't have many features I want like zebras, focus in Red etc, so it won't replace my TV logic. Frankly i wish they just made it smaller with a tiny monitor. That would be more valuable.
Re price. Yeah it doesn't seem much to add on to an already expensive unit but I've been tapped out for a while now and still buying accessories. Saving $1300 is a relief especially if its smaller also. Its hard to charge extra for something that an Alexa or red already has.

I'm not sure I will spring for the 4:4:4 option yet as 10 bit 4:2:2 sounds like plenty of quality. Wish that Sony could give us s-log in a free firmware update for the existing 10 bit SDI out. Is there any reason why s-log requires the dual output?

[James Houk]

My understanding is that the S-Log update will permit 4:2:2 single link recording, likely out of the SDI port.

As for why they don't release it for free... that's a matter of it being a value added option, and Sony feeling they can charge for that feature. I think it's really quite reasonable.

[Leonard Levy]

Is s-log a great deal more complicated than an additional gamma choice?

[James Houk]

I wouldn't presume the price to be set relative to the effort involved in the firmware coding for the S-Log curve.

S-Log is a professional workflow, and has never been available, to my knowledge, in a camera under $50k, and really is more the domain of $100k cameras.

So the notion that S-Log can be had on a $16.5k camera is pretty astounding.

[Leonard Levy]

"I wouldn't presume the price to be set relative to the effort involved in the firmware coding for the S-Log curve."

I would expect it to be exactly that. They are already giving plenty of stuff never available before nothing new there . I assume the 4:4:4 upgrade represents substantial effort and/or a hardware upgrade.

[Tony Hernandez]

While Sound Devices have great pro-features ..
I think that an HD-SDI recorder for 1.495$ is a choice !

I don't know about the atomos former's relation with B.M., but atomos are great people, doing great job with all his best effords to go for affordable.

My 0.2 cents for