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Atomos Ninja / Samurai / Shogun
HD-SDI field recorders supporting a variety of codecs.


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Old November 9th, 2011, 08:48 PM   #1
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long time Tape user converts ...... HELP!

Hey I'm sure with the wealth of knowledge that this group of pros possesses, someone can steer me in the right direction. With that said here is my current situation: I had been shooting with a Z1U from the time it was introduced, so I became comfortable with the tape workflow. Doing sporting events and long drawn out corporate functions, changing tapes in mid stream was a big pain...fast forward, a few weeks ago I upgraded to a Z7U and I supplemented the camera with a Ninja video recorder. At first it was magic, but I soon realized a few things that buggeed me. With tape I was picking out the footage I wanted to bring into FCP and the rest stayed on the tape.. archived on the shelve. Now with the Ninja I just copy all the Mov files into the directory housing all files related to that project. The problem is I get all of the footage the “Good the Bad the Ugly”. Before... I could shoot some corporate employee interviews, weed through the bad takes, and take up minimal HD space. (working drives and back-up drives) Now the same type project takes up a ton more space. And I have all these garbage files on my HD. I use a Newer Technology Voyager.. So when I need to backup a job that’s over I just put it on a 2T drive, since I went tapeless those drives are filling up very fast....compound that with the Hard Drive crisis......any advice and workarounds concerning tapeless workflow is very welcome right now....I am going to go broke buying HDs
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Old November 9th, 2011, 09:16 PM   #2
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Re: long time Tape user converts ...... HELP!

so . . . you took the time to log and transfer the tapes.
Why don't you take the time to log and transfer the files?

Leaving out the 'garbage' would seem to reduce your consumption of HD space.
However, time is money and if backing up whole shoots and transcoding batch footage is your workflow . . . HDs are the lowest cost when it comes to memory.
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Old November 9th, 2011, 09:27 PM   #3
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Re: long time Tape user converts ...... HELP!

but the Ninja files are just mov files on a HD....I have to copy them over to my working drive to use them right?
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Old November 9th, 2011, 09:51 PM   #4
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Re: long time Tape user converts ...... HELP!

I have no experience with a Ninja, and i'm a tape guy myself, that wrangles files from my T2i and other sources . . . but your log and transfer works just like jog and capture . . . you can set in and outs to limit the 'crap' that ends up on your working drive and then make a back up of the raw, original files, right?
What format does the Ninja record in?
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Old November 9th, 2011, 11:26 PM   #5
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Re: long time Tape user converts ...... HELP!

It records out of the camera uncompressed HDMI to the recorder. It can record all three flavors of Pro Res (LT, 422, and HQ) it records them on the standard 2.5" HDD/SSD storage. When you are ready to edit you plug the HD into a reader and it mounts on your desktop. So I have been dragging the files to the directory with my project. But when you drag them over you get it ALL....mountains of footage and a complete waste of precious HD space...
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Old November 10th, 2011, 06:53 AM   #6
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Re: long time Tape user converts ...... HELP!

I think what mark was/is trying to say is. When you drag all your files over from the ninja, put them in a temp file. Then use log and transfer (that's what is called in final cut pro, I can't remember if what NLE you said you were working in), to look through the footage, it will then transfer the non garbage files into your NLE, then you can go back and archive or delete the temp file will all the footage, and only keep the files you deem essential.
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Old November 10th, 2011, 07:50 AM   #7
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Re: long time Tape user converts ...... HELP!

But log and transfer is useful for transcoding from compressed formats; he's starting with workable / large files. If it were me, i'd review the footage in the NLE straight from the SSD, trash the files not needed, then transfer remaining to your scratch drive and backup drives.
Or transfer all original files, edit and then at conclusion, media manage to produce your archive / backup.

Again, we don't know what NLE you're using.
An aside question: Does Premiere have a media manger that can trim clips with handles like FCP does?
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Old November 10th, 2011, 08:06 AM   #8
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Re: long time Tape user converts ...... HELP!

Going tapeless means workflow and costs need adjustments. By definition, you are moving your archive (everything) from tape to disk. By definition. Therefore, you need to step up to spending some $$$ on hard disks for archiving everything.... like you did for tape.... or decide you aren't archiving everything.

You can save room on your day to day working system by logging and transfering (i.e. trimming) directly from the Ninja to your working system. L&T need not transcode.... it can just trim like a tape injest did. Once you've brought in just what you want, then you are only consuming what you "need". If you want to archive, you can bulk copy from the Ninja to your backup HD.

Another thing that's gobbling up space is the Prores format vs your camera's native format. Fortunately, HD space is cheap. You are getting the benefits of solid state recording...the cost is not limited to the capture box.
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Old November 10th, 2011, 08:11 PM   #9
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Re: long time Tape user converts ...... HELP!

So once to Ninja is mounted on the desktop (for earlier post...I am using FCP -6) I can log certain parts of the mov files that are on the Ninja HD?
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Old November 10th, 2011, 09:33 PM   #10
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Re: long time Tape user converts ...... HELP!

Yes. Log and Transfer is the equivalent for solid state to Log and Capture for tape. It's under the File menu as shown in the attached.
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Old November 13th, 2011, 10:52 AM   #11
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Re: long time Tape user converts ...... HELP!

Ouch....The Ninja uses standard 2.5 hard drives, Once I get back from a shoot I pop the drive into a reader that came with the recorder and it mounts on the desktop. I went into Log and Transfer and it did not recognise any media, and I can't figure out a way to point it to the mounted drive. Can you control what FCP sees?
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Old November 13th, 2011, 11:00 AM   #12
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Re: long time Tape user converts ...... HELP!

When you plug the drive and reader into your Mac, does the computer itself recognize the drive? Cause if the computer doesn't, final cut for sure won't. Check your connections. If the computer is recognizing the drive, but your not seeing in final cut, you may have to manually point FCP to it.
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Old November 13th, 2011, 11:03 AM   #13
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Re: long time Tape user converts ...... HELP!

QUOTE=Jeff Troiano;

"I think what mark was/is trying to say is. When you drag all your files over from the ninja, put them in a temp file. Then use log and transfer (that's what is called in final cut pro, I can't remember if what NLE you said you were working in), to look through the footage, it will then transfer the non garbage files into your NLE, then you can go back and archive or delete the temp file will all the footage, and only keep the files you deem essential."


Jeff when you say make a temp file, I am not familiar with this? Could you tell me how to do this? Is this done outside FCP...?
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Old November 13th, 2011, 11:32 AM   #14
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Re: long time Tape user converts ...... HELP!

If you right click on an empty space on your desktop, a drop down box will show, and an option to "create a new folder" is in there. If you click that, an empty folder appears. You can name that folder anything you want. And transfer anything want into it. If you put all the files from your Ninja in it, then you can use log and transfer to get the files you want. Since the Ninja records in prores, you may not even have to use log and transfer. Once I have a file of video, I'll highlight a clip I want to view, and press my spacebar, and the clip will play, I then arrow up and down between clips, and choose the ones I want to transfer into FCP. I don't know if this is conventional or not, but it works for me. Once I finish a project, I use the function inside FCP, to put all my project files into 1 folder, and I transfer that to a storage drive for archiving. Depending on the project, I may or may not keep all the video files (those used and unused). Those go on the same storage drive. I keep those drives I. A static free bag, and inside a fire proof safe.
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Old November 13th, 2011, 07:32 PM   #15
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Re: long time Tape user converts ...... HELP!

The whole point of this is to get to a workflow that's more like the tape workflow, pick and choose what you want and back the rest up in case you need to revisit in the future. I have only done two jobs with the new system (Z7u with Ninja video recorder) They have been very different in nature. The first one was a football game...very easy, when the game started, I hit record and at the end of the game I stopped with a twenty minute break for halftime I pretty much needed the whole game. So I copied the mov files to the dir with my project file and did a import files.....Second job is a interview of corporate employees, no experience at all in front of the camera. We are talking hours of footage....if I can't pick and choose what I want to import in to FCP, I am going to run out of HD space sooner then later. It's easy to get the Ninja footage into FCP, once the Ninja drive mounts on the desktop....just drag and copy where ever you want.....I just want to be more selective about what I ingest (like the tape workflow...log and CAPTURE. In other words I want only certain parts of a take.
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