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Old October 14th, 2016, 08:01 PM   #1
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Atomos Shogun Inferno?

I am thinking of getting the Inferno in order to shoot 4K on my Sony FS700.

Do I need to send the camera to Sony to get 4K out of the sensor?

In reading the specs on the Atomos website, nearly all the recording options have an asterisk that leads to a disclaimer 'available in future firmware updates'. How long does it take for Atomos to provide these updates? What can the recorder actually do out of the box now?
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Old October 14th, 2016, 08:31 PM   #2
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Re: Atomos Shogun Inferno?

If your camera is not the FS700R, you will have to send your camera to Sony to install the RAW option.

Firmware updates unfortunately take lots of time, usually the best you can expect that I've grown accustom to is a quarterly firmware update. Expect definite firmware news at NAB.
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Old October 15th, 2016, 01:57 AM   #3
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Re: Atomos Shogun Inferno?

You can go into your cameras menu's and check the firmware version to find out if it needs the upgrade or not. Firmware version 3.00 or above already has the 4K output; numbers below that will need to be sent in to Sony.

Info is incredibly scarce so far for the Inferno, but the the most definitive time given for the firmware updates I've heard was 4-5 weeks, and that FS700 HFR would be in the first firmware update. I can't remember if that was in a press release, or possibly from the Atomos rep on the B & H website.
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Old October 15th, 2016, 06:29 AM   #4
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Re: Atomos Shogun Inferno?

Just did a quick web search and it seems that several sites have published the same info which I assume is regurgitated from an Atomos press release:

4-5 Weeks for the first firmware update, which will include Sony FS 100/120/200/240fps.

However, just a few weeks ago at IBC, they were announcing that HFR for Sony would be included from release and the firmware update was for Canon and Arri Raw. So clearly their firmware announcements are subject to change.
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Old November 23rd, 2016, 11:32 PM   #5
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Re: Atomos Shogun Inferno?

Looks like the first firmware update for the Inferno has been released... and still no mention of HFR recording, which they said would be included in the first firmware update.

Sigh.

Looks like this could be a similar case to the raw recording on the original Shogun, where it was promised for years but never made it past beta. I think I'll wait until the next Firmware release, and if that one still lacks the features which were supposed to be included from launch, I'll give up and buy the Odyssey instead.
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Old November 27th, 2016, 12:21 PM   #6
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Re: Atomos Shogun Inferno?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Wiley View Post
Looks like this could be a similar case to the raw recording on the original Shogun, where it was promised for years but never made it past beta. I think I'll wait until the next Firmware release, and if that one still lacks the features which were supposed to be included from launch, I'll give up and buy the Odyssey instead.
To piggyback on John's comment, at this point, given Atomos' track record, don't purchase the Inferno/Flame series unless it will do what you want it to do today. If you need raw recording that works, and you need it soon, the Odyssey is your best bet.
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Old November 28th, 2016, 10:06 AM   #7
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Re: Atomos Shogun Inferno?

People that want HFR signal passthrough will still want to get the Inferno. The Odyssey has no HFR signal passthrough.
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Old December 4th, 2016, 11:42 PM   #8
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Re: Atomos Shogun Inferno?

Well, turns out I couldn't wait much longer before making a purchase decision after having a few 4K requests - so I've gone ahead and purchased the Inferno.

I'll try to do a quick write up on it here once I've had a play, as there's so little actual information out there about this unit so far. The only proper review I've seen for it focused 3/4 of the article on the HDR screen - whereas what most buyers probably want to know is what features the bloody thing actually has working as of right now!

For now though I'd totally agree with Gary that you should only purchase it based on what it currently does - not what has been promised for future firmware updates - and at that point it seems to be ProRes/DNxHD only, and tops out at 60p for both 4K and 1080p.
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Old December 26th, 2016, 09:13 PM   #9
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Re: Atomos Shogun Inferno?

High frame rates on Sony now available.
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Old January 14th, 2017, 04:19 PM   #10
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Re: Atomos Shogun Inferno?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Wiley View Post
Just did a quick web search and it seems that several sites have published the same info which I assume is regurgitated from an Atomos press release:

4-5 Weeks for the first firmware update, which will include Sony FS 100/120/200/240fps.

However, just a few weeks ago at IBC, they were announcing that HFR for Sony would be included from release and the firmware update was for Canon and Arri Raw. So clearly their firmware announcements are subject to change.
I have been thinking about a Shogun, but this all just seals the deal for me. I was one of the first Shogun recipients, the model that ended up being released with no playback (a future upgrade) very few other features, a logo on the front that looked like it was put on by a third grader in a rush, a battery that lasted 15 minutes and an on off button that lasted slightly longer than that.

Realizing that future upgrades are the reality of the day, I'm not investing in much of anything that depends on a wish and a prayer for future functionality. My Odyssey 7Q+ works, has excellent customer support and reliable updates. Guess I'll get a second unit.
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Old February 13th, 2017, 03:40 PM   #11
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Re: Atomos Shogun Inferno?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Wiley View Post
Well, turns out I couldn't wait much longer before making a purchase decision after having a few 4K requests - so I've gone ahead and purchased the Inferno.

I'll try to do a quick write up on it here once I've had a play, as there's so little actual information out there about this unit so far. The only proper review I've seen for it focused 3/4 of the article on the HDR screen - whereas what most buyers probably want to know is what features the bloody thing actually has working as of right now!

For now though I'd totally agree with Gary that you should only purchase it based on what it currently does - not what has been promised for future firmware updates - and at that point it seems to be ProRes/DNxHD only, and tops out at 60p for both 4K and 1080p.

John Wiley--

As an FS700R user who has recently purchased an Inferno, I wondered if you are now in a position to update this thread with your early experiences?

I am still sitting on the fence. I can articulate what I need from the Inferno, but so far I haven't gotten definitive evidence that Inferno can do exactly what I need from it.

1920 x 1080 video at 240 fps is the main reason that I bought the FS700. Since most of the events I shoot with high frame rates are spontaneous and unpredictable ones, I absolutely need the End Trigger function for recording. But, of course, at 240 fps the buffer on the FS700 is limited to 8 seconds worth of shooting time and that's all you get per event--8 real-time seconds of video.

However, a spontaneous event that is worth capturing may last for much longer than 8 seconds in real time. What I specifically need from an add-on recorder is: The ability to use End Trigger (or Pre Roll, as Atomos calls it) to capture the beginning of a spontaneous event, and the ability to keep right on recording that event continuously for several minutes--all in HD or 2K resolution and at 240 fps.

I have looked at the Inferno user manual until I'm cross-eyed. I have spoken with a US rep for Atomos. I have combed the DVXUser and DVInfo sites--maybe I've missed something, but I want to know for sure from someone who has actually done it: Can an FS700R with an Inferno recorder do what I am asking about?

Thanks in advance!

Lee
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Old February 13th, 2017, 09:55 PM   #12
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Re: Atomos Shogun Inferno?

I've only used the Inferno on non-commercial shoots so far, due to the firmware bug that limits you to shooting in 50/60p for 4K (which means burning through SDD's at twice the rate compared to 24/25/30p - not always manageable in the field).

I've never used the pre-roll function, but 240fps continuous recording is working fine. There is a noticeable jump in image quality even at HD. The only thing I dislike about the Shogun slow-motion is that all the files are played back at real-time (rather than conforming to slow motion like the Sony internal or Red's will do). So you have to check your media properties to separate the HFR footage from the real-time stuff.
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Old February 14th, 2017, 07:47 AM   #13
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Re: Atomos Shogun Inferno?

Thanks, John--I appreciate it!

Has Atomos said anything to you about fixing the bug to enable 4K @ 24p? Aside from the storage problems with 4K 60 you mentioned, 24p is such an important film-like setting, I would hope they take that problem very seriously.

If you do have a chance to check out the Pre Roll/End Trigger function w/ HD 240 fps, I (and probably some others, I think) would definitely value your further updates.

Anybody else at DVInfo use an Inferno with Sony FS700? It is somewhat surprising to me that there is relatively little detailed, user-based information about the Atomos products. I have spoken a couple of times with a US-based Atomos "tech rep", but he told me he doesn't actually have an FS700 available for checking out detailed compatibility & range of function questions. He has passed on my questions to his Australian colleagues and he has passed their answers back to me....but that is clearly not the most efficient way to get good answers. First-hand experience from folks like you is a valuable treasure!

Thanks again,

Lee
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Old February 20th, 2017, 11:43 AM   #14
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Re: Atomos Shogun Inferno?

A modest proposal: Atomos Inferno owners who visit this site--let's step up our game and pledge to help each other, teach each other, and share as much technical know-how as possible. C'mon, lurkers--identify yourselves. Some very nice folks have already stepped up to the plate here at DVInfo--anyone can see who they are--but the Atomos discussions here really need more action.

Without diss'ing or ignoring any competitor products (especially the Odyssey 7Q+, for example) it would be great if DVInfo could become a reliable go-to site for Atomos users. Why DVInfo...? Well, because (1) It is obviously an active forum and enjoys input from many, many knowledgeable people. (2) There already seems to be a fairly active base of Atomos users at DVInfo, and I think that base would grow rapidly if it became more widely known as a hotbed of good information. (3) After all, where else you gonna go?

Atomos apparently used to host their own forum at one time but that isn't happening anymore. Maybe they got fed up with negativity or spammers, I don't know, but there's no Atomos-sponsored forum. The community at DVXuser seems kind of locked in to Convergent Design/Odyssey 7Q+ (there is even a CD rep, Mitch Gross, who posts there very regularly....frankly, I think the CD rep is a great asset to the DVXuser site but the information found there is almost all slanted toward the Odyssey. There is another problem with the DVXuser site though...they do not seem to be activating new accounts for posting privileges anymore, unless I am greatly mistaken. Even the moderator on the FS700 thread there has not posted anything in 8 months. So, that's just not happening for me.

I don't know about the official Atomos contacts in other countries but the US rep, despite being a very nice guy, has pretty limited knowledge and he ends up relaying questions to Australia and relaying their answers back...not efficient, and not always helpful.

The Atomos website has lots of information and downloadable user manuals, product brochures, etc. but everybody who visits a site like DVInfo must know that peers can often be the best source of "real life" information--i.e., we are not trying to sell the product but, on the other hand, we are the ones who use the product in "street-level" applications.

Okay, enough soapbox oratorio--I'm just preaching to the choir anyway. There are some great people here who are using Atomos with their cameras. I am very eager to learn as much as I can from you all, and I will commit to share everything I can as I get up to speed.

Camera: Sony NEX FS700R
Ext. Recorder: Atomos Inferno (haven't received it yet, delivery due on 2/22/2017)
Editing software: Sony Vegas Pro 12
Main interest: High quality slo-mo video of spontaneous events, especially events found in sports and nature.
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Old February 25th, 2017, 11:22 AM   #15
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Re: Atomos Shogun Inferno?

Atomos Inferno update:

Okay, so I received the Inferno that I purchased from Adorama. Bought through them because they were advertising the complete Inferno package (i.e., includes everything that is listed by Atomos) bundled with several useful accessories: Two additional batteries + charger, a cheap ball-joint adaptor for attaching the Inferno to a camera, a couple of HDMI-->miniHDMI cables (that I can't actually use), and a 480 GB SSD. This bundle cost $1995 which is the list price of the Inferno alone, so that seemed like a good deal. Adorama held up the order for a couple of days because the SSD listed in their bundle deal was "out of stock". I called them and squawked a bit and they graciously upgraded me to a slightly better 480 GB SSD they had in stock for no extra charge.

They shipped and the box arrived on time in good condition. Inside was an unopened Atomos box containing the complete Inferno package--all goodies included and in good shape. Plus, the bundled items were all there and in good shape.

First, I inserted the SSD into a caddy, inserted the SSD caddy into the Inferno, powered up, and formatted the SSD....screen showed formatting progress until near the end, when it went dark and power went off. Apparently that is normal, because when I turned the Inferno power on again, the screen indicated that SSD was properly formatted.

Removed the SSD caddy, inserted it into the docking station and connected both USB's to an internet-connected computer (they say these SSD's need plenty of power, and both USB's may be required to supply enough power to the SSD from a computer.) Okay, went to the Atomos homepage, selected "Support", selected "Inferno", and found the latest firmware update (version 8.11). Downloaded the new firmware to SSD, re-loaded the SSD caddy to Inferno, and updated the firmware as per instructions. Worked perfectly.

Set up my FS700R, connected the Inferno and camera w/ SDI cable, powered up both and set the FS700R to output 2K RAW @ 240 fps. Set the Inferno for "Pre Roll" recording of the 2K RAW signal--i.e., this is Aussie-speak for "End Trigger". I also set the Inferno to record the 2K RAW signal to Pro Res HQ files.

The goal here was to test whether the Inferno could start recording the 2K RAW 240 fps signal from its buffer and then keep on recording continuously.....IT WORKED!!! The Inferno buffer only provides a very short amount of Pre Roll video (looks like maybe 1 sec, or slightly less?) at 2K RAW (240 fps) but it works! And, the 2K RAW 240 fps signal is recorded continuously after the buffered data is recorded.

Using Pre Roll (i.e., End Trigger) for recording spontaneous events from 2K RAW @ 240 fps is going to be a little tricky because of the short time the buffer allows for starting the recording process, but it is technically feasible. May need to develop quicker reflexes (ha ha) and use a remote device to trigger the recorder in Pre Roll mode.

First impressions.....Wow! The Inferno does what I'd hoped it would do, at least so far, and I am thrilled with it.

More later....
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