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Old February 20th, 2008, 12:53 AM   #1
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HG10 or SR11 for specific application

Brand new to video (never operated a camcorder), but have been reading forums, reviews etc. Have some specific questions please.
1. For the specific application described below, will the HG10 show noticeable ghosting?
2. Is the 1920 x 1080, 16Mbps, etc of the new HDR SR11 likely to give a significant improvement over the HG 10 re ghosting or overall quality? (best guess?) Is HG10 @$625 too good to pass compared to SR11 @$1000?
3. Do you think my computer will comfortably handle HG10 files /software? And will the 1920x1080 SR11 files be bigger and/or more taxing on the computer?
I need to get a camcorder by April to shoot large radio controlled model sailing ships on the water. They are 5-7 ft long, 6ft high two and three masted square rigged ships with rigging lines and other fine detail.
Shots in bright sunlight to overcast conditions. High contrast: sky, dark hull, white sails, water. Ships moving 2-4mph, most shots likely panned. Most shots likely high zoom, 20-100ft range. Some specialty close up shots. Capturing detail in the moving ships is important. Capturing dark hull detail and light sail detail is important. OOF background would be great.
Video is for display on large LCD monitor, HDTV monitor and for large screen projection for group presentations. (Also some clips to web). Not for commercial/pro use, but for serious modeling documentation by a rookie (me, hopefully with potential). Im kind of tekkie prefer solid build and manual control options. Currently do digital still photog, but vid looks very challenging and fun.
Computer: PC (ouch), Intel Centrino Duo, 2Ghz, 2Gb ram, XP pro.
Heres a link to still shots of what I want to get on vid.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=961
Thanks in advance for your feedback.
Dan Lewandowski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2008, 02:40 AM   #2
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Hi Dan -
Really too early to tell on the SR11/12... no reviews or cameras in hand yet!

I'm beginning to suspect that "ghosting" is an editing issue, not necessarily inherent in the AVCHD format... relatively new format, fine tuning, figuring out optimal settings, etc. I think with proper posting, you shouldn't have a problem.

One thing you are going to need to consider with video is stabilizing your shots, particularly with "high zoom" - HD formats are particularly sensitive in this respect.

One thing that might be an advantage to the SR is the spot focus/exposure feature - might be handy for adjusting on the fly.

The SR should hit the streets soon, but may not be before the insane deals on the Canons disappear... tough choice.
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Old February 20th, 2008, 09:37 AM   #3
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Optical vs digital zoom

Dave - thanks for the quick reply. Yep, I'm really going nuts on whether to get the HG10. One factor is I'd rather drop $650 in the water than $1100.
But the SR11 looks SO promising.
Good info on the zoom. Given hi def, could this be a case to use minimal optical zoom for more stable shot, and rely more on the digital zoom of the hi def, more stable imaging? Does HD give decent digi zoom results, or is there some unique artifacting that creeps in?
As a first cam I'm now leaning HG10, but seems that SR11 will be a significant step up in HVDC performance "tweaks". And I'll want it as soon as I read the first positive review....
Also - HG10 at 650 vs SR11 at 950 (in a short time) is really not so big a diff :)
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Old February 20th, 2008, 09:59 AM   #4
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Is it true that such promising cameras as these have no frame rates below 60?
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Old February 20th, 2008, 11:13 AM   #5
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frame rates

John,
Sony doesn't do 24fps? Does that make the Canon HF10 or 100 with 24 and 30fps (for web reduction to 15) a significant option for that reason?
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Old February 20th, 2008, 11:29 AM   #6
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I can't find any info on anything except that it will go above 60 ,
Someone tell me I am wrong -
then I would probably grab the SR-12 when it comes -
yes,
For me the 24/30P (without doing much in Post) is Butter
]B
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Old February 21st, 2008, 02:37 PM   #7
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I'll add some comments...

and hope this spurs additional discussion. I have experienced the ghosting issue with the HG10 and I think it is a combination of 3:2 pulldown problems and excessive movement (as in not using a tripod). I haven't shot enough 60i material to determine if it's present in that mode. I really, really wish I had a blu ray burner and a HD display that natively handles (i.e., 3:3, 4:4, or 5:5 pulldown) 24P material so I could more thoroughly evaluate this issue. We have three HD displays and are still replacing SD 4:3 TV's. One thing is for sure, the next set will natively handle 24P material.

For $625, yes, I think the HG10 is a steal and you should buy it. If you can keep the cam steady and learn to work around its consumer-level controls, it will deliver the goods. I think the AVCHD codec tends to "choke" on fully-framed material that is also jumpy - e.g., aggressive handheld zooming. Without a doubt, shooting in 24PF only exacerbates the issue from what I've seen.
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Old February 21st, 2008, 03:12 PM   #8
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I've only shot 60i (except for a test in 24p to determine whether my setup could do the pulldown removal) and I've never seen ghosting of any sort. And I shoot almost exclusively handheld. I have had some jitterry footage occasionally, but that was on low bit rate (can't remember which setting, but either the lowest or second-lowest bitrate). Now I always shoot 15Mbps.
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Old February 21st, 2008, 04:13 PM   #9
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^^^great feedback!
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