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AVCHD Format Discussion
Inexpensive High Definition H.264 encoding to DVD, Hard Disc or SD Card.


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Old March 20th, 2008, 02:51 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Jason Ivins View Post
I have the SR11 and tried the zoom option when my son was riding his tricycle 100 yards away. Wasn't impressed. Haven't tried it in a noisy room yet. The 5.1 surround sound doesn't have tremendous separation, but it does work and give a different feel to the video. The still pictures are actually quite usable, too (especially outdoors).

I haven't seen you mention the new canon hf10/100, but I think you ought to consider it too. The new canon lacks the 5.1 sound/zoom feature, and the slo-mo capture (3 seconds slowed to 12 seconds w/ a lower resolution) of the Sony, but has 24p and 30p, along with a little better manual control over the camera.

By the way, I'm really enjoying my Sony SR11.
I tried the zoom as well and really could not tell a difference. I dont think its a great feature in terms of true audio performance. the mics being used are the same mics. I think it places focus on the front and increases the gain in that channel. So you could reduce sound to the left and right a little but it is not a shotgun mic.

More test will need to be done by the pros that test this stuff to getthe real scoop.


But I have the mic jack and headphone jack to cinnect my MKE300 or even better my ME67 and k6. I can also monitor and adjust mic level by going through my zoom h2, which also provides me with an additional audio track!!
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Old March 20th, 2008, 02:56 PM   #17
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Thanks for the replies so far folks. I can see you have a passion for video. Another question for those with the SR11/12's, how is the sound quality, and does the audio zoom actually work? From what I;ve been reading in other posts onthis site and others, the video quality is so close between the HV30 & SR11/12 that it's almost a moot point, which then comes down to the features and options each camera offers. It would be easier if one stood head and shoulders above the others.......
Interesting question John and I fully agree with you about the video quality. Anyone stating that there is a large difference in video quality between cams like the SR11/12, HV20/30 and probably the HF10, are not being sincere.

Yes, there are slight differences, but in my mind the biggest single difference between these cams is the video noise. There is simply less noise in the new Sonys than any other consumer HD cam I've seen.

As for sound, the Sony audio is the best I've heard in any cam I've owned. The surround 5.1 sound does make a difference and adds an ambience and realism to the sound I've never heard in any of these cams. My shots in N.Y.C. had traffic sounds coming out of all speakers and in a directional fashion. Sure, it's not as good as if you had 5 discrete mike elements in 5 different locations, but it's absolutely amazing they were able to achieve what they did.
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Old March 20th, 2008, 02:59 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Jason Ivins View Post
I have the SR11 and tried the zoom option when my son was riding his tricycle 100 yards away. Wasn't impressed.
Jason, I was trying to figure out what you meant by not being impressed with the 'zoom option' until I realized you were talking about the audio zoom! Yes, I agree, I am not impressed with that feature either, but I am impressed with the 5.1 sound as I've said.
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Old March 20th, 2008, 03:00 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Kaushik Parmar View Post
I am afraid you took it very much seriously, I donít own SR12 that is why I use word "would be" means it maybe superior or maybe not! I never told Canon HV20 is superior, how can I tell till I have not compare both!

I also trust Sony Company, they have good products. I am looking forward to see stunning videos from Sony SR12; I would appreciate if you can post them!

Kaushik
No not at all believe me. I did not take it to seriously. I just respond to finit statments "As far as concern video quality, Canon HV20/ HV30 would be superior! I have Canon HV20 as well as I have JVC GZHD7! "

Replace the word would with "could" or "may be" and that is a discussion.
Keep the word would and get replys like mine ;)

Im sorry im in a mood just having fun after all this as all supposed to be fun to take our minds of the things we don't want to think about..
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Old March 20th, 2008, 03:03 PM   #20
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I did consider the HF10 as well. The beauty of these discussions (and I thank you all) is it gets you thinking about different factors. Like I said in the begining, I'm still pretty new to shooting video and while I may never produce a blockbuster motion picture, it would be nice to have the perception I have as many tools at my disposal as possible. Optical viewfinders, manual control are important as well as the ability to shoot 24p & 30p. Regarding audio, it's imperative to be able to connect an external mic. It's both wonderful and maddening we have so many great choices, and I've come to realize I won't be dissapointed no matter which of these fine machines I decide to buy.
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Old March 20th, 2008, 03:06 PM   #21
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The new canon HF has better manual control.... Am I wrong but did they not include a manual focus knob? Or do you mean items like gain and shutter then if they kept the same features as the HV series then yes more control.

The SR gives the basic control over your shots. I wish I had a little more control of the gain and shutter. Also the HV and HG from canon have that photo button trick to get total contrl over gain and shutter for low light shots.
Paul, the often overlooked manual feature on the Sonys are the assignable front wheel. With that wheel you can manually control focus, exposure, white balance offset and exposure offset. I would like to add to that the Canon controls to raise or lower sharpness, color and brightness. Although to be honest, I always keep those at default in my HV20...but it's nice to know they're there.
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Old March 20th, 2008, 04:23 PM   #22
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Paul, the often overlooked manual feature on the Sonys are the assignable front wheel. With that wheel you can manually control focus, exposure, white balance offset and exposure offset. I would like to add to that the Canon controls to raise or lower sharpness, color and brightness. Although to be honest, I always keep those at default in my HV20...but it's nice to know they're there.
Oh I know. I usually set white balance manually and its nice to be able to get to it quickly.

I did the candle test to see how much control I really wished I had. I found the the camera produces such a great image (again to me) that I really didn't need the control over shutter and iris. I know this is not a pro camera which would be expected to have those features. But all in all, I found that for my needs to be creative, I don't need control over those features to get what I need. I can do it all in post.

I just did some video of my children in the house under normal houshold lighting conditions on a cloudy day. The noise was almost not evident. This is why I really love this camera. I didn't need to do any photo button trick or play with controls. I can just point and shoot.

I could go on and on.....
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Old March 20th, 2008, 04:29 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Paul, the often overlooked manual feature on the Sonys are the assignable front wheel. With that wheel you can manually control focus, exposure, white balance offset and exposure offset. I would like to add to that the Canon controls to raise or lower sharpness, color and brightness. Although to be honest, I always keep those at default in my HV20...but it's nice to know they're there.
Actually, the fact that the SR11/12 has the exposure offset function (AE shift I think it's called?) is really nice. I assume this is the same thing as what is normally called exposure compensation in still cameras. If it is, I've long wished my camcorder had this function. It lets you bias the exposure in fine increments to favor highlights or shadows while still allowing the auto-exposure system to make overall adjustments (i.e., without having to go to full manual control).
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Old March 20th, 2008, 05:53 PM   #24
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Paul in full manual the full scale is 18db then each segment down is 15,12,9,6,3,0 Once you get to know where these are it is possible to limit gain . However its not possible to set 12db gain and F4 for instance like I can do on my FX1.

Ron Evans

Last edited by Ron Evans; March 20th, 2008 at 07:44 PM.
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Old March 20th, 2008, 06:08 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Dave Rosky View Post
Actually, the fact that the SR11/12 has the exposure offset function (AE shift I think it's called?) is really nice. I assume this is the same thing as what is normally called exposure compensation in still cameras. If it is, I've long wished my camcorder had this function. It lets you bias the exposure in fine increments to favor highlights or shadows while still allowing the auto-exposure system to make overall adjustments (i.e., without having to go to full manual control).
Dave, that's exactly what it is. You can also use the same type of 'shift' feature for white balance.
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Old March 20th, 2008, 08:25 PM   #26
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Just a note for an add on - the HW1 wireless microphone from Sony acts as a center channel source in 5.1 mode (It can also be set for straight mono/bridged stereo).

Even better than a zoom mic, just clip it, strap it or hang it on or near your sound source. Ambience AND pretty good clear sound of your little "actors", or big ones. For the price it's hard to beat, so far the bluetooth seems to be clean, and I have already run two HW1's simultaneously, so they seem to have discreet channels. I keep one with my CX7's, and it's a good little item to have.
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Old March 20th, 2008, 09:43 PM   #27
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Very nice Dave!
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Old March 20th, 2008, 10:48 PM   #28
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Boy, I'm starting to feel bummed that I can't really consider the SR11 because of the hard drive issues (altitude). I wish I could afford two cams at once, like the SD9 for climbing/skiing and the SR11 for everything else ;)

Hopefully the mythical CX9 will basically be an SR11 without the hard drive.

BTW, Ken, do you miss not having any progressive recording modes on the SR12? I guess the low light performance is good enough without needing 24P, and you can always get 30P by deinterlacing in post...
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Old March 20th, 2008, 11:34 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Dave Rosky View Post
Actually, the fact that the SR11/12 has the exposure offset function (AE shift I think it's called?) is really nice. I assume this is the same thing as what is normally called exposure compensation in still cameras. If it is, I've long wished my camcorder had this function. It lets you bias the exposure in fine increments to favor highlights or shadows while still allowing the auto-exposure system to make overall adjustments (i.e., without having to go to full manual control).

Oh yes I forgot to mention that too. But you clearly did that.
I found this and was unsure about its exact function. Ken shed some light on it for me. I have been playing with it and found that I like to reduce the exposure by -2 (It goes to -4.) It really adds depth to the image like in nature shots for instance.
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Old March 21st, 2008, 12:27 AM   #30
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I have been playing with it and found that I like to reduce the exposure by -2 (It goes to -4.) It really adds depth to the image like in nature shots for instance.
I'm not too surprised. My current camcorder tends to overexpose highlights in some circumstances (most do); since it doesn't have such an exposure compensation function, it forces me to resort to full manual exposure. The exposure compensation function would be much more convenient.
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