New with AVCHD, but looking for something quite specific. at DVinfo.net

Jose A. Garcia · April 12th, 2008, 06:38 PM

Hi all,

I'm new in the AVCHD world but I really like the overall concept. Being a filmmaker I'm always looking for the best quality with little compression. I know that's not what AVCHD normally offers but I like the idea of having a small and light FullHD camera to take with me everywhere. The problem is that I'm a bit lost with so many different cams. Let's see if I can find what I want:

- Full 1920x1080 from the sensor to the final clip.
- CMOS sensor.
- Real 24p.
- Best possible image quality (of course).
- Best possible compression.
- Small and light.

I've seen some Canon HF100 footage and I really like it, but I think it doesn't have real 24p, does it?

What do you think?

Thanks.

Eugenia Loli-Queru · April 13th, 2008, 12:42 AM

Depends of the definition of "real" 24p, I guess. ;)
It is not "just" 24 frames per second, if that's what you are asking. You will still have to perform pulldown removal with one of the available methods to get a pure 24p stream.

Jose A. Garcia · April 13th, 2008, 06:26 AM

I was refering to 24 progressive frames per second. But I've been reading lots of different threads and almost all cameras seem to need the pulldown removal. Anyway I think there're a few which capture in progressive, convert the stream to interlaced but then going back to progressive is easier, because both fields are captured at the same time.

If real progressive is not easy to find, I prefer a camera with 24p option (even if it's not real) but with a really good image quality.

David Saraceno · April 13th, 2008, 11:25 AM

Panasonic SD9 is the only cam that does this to my knowledge.

1080/24p without pulldown.

Robin Lobel · April 13th, 2008, 12:18 PM

..but you should definitely go for the HF10 over the SD9, even if you have pulldown job to do.

Jose A. Garcia · April 13th, 2008, 05:05 PM

Does the HF10 capture in real progresive even if it converts the stream to 60i after that? Is it easy to do the pulldown job?

Jose A. Garcia · April 13th, 2008, 05:59 PM

Another question on the HF10. Does the miniHDMI port outputs an uncompressed stream? Should I buy an Intensity card in case I want to record and edit with better quality?

David Saraceno · April 13th, 2008, 06:02 PM

HDMI out has be done live with the Intensity card.

You know that you can't record to SD or disc and then output uncompressed via Intensity

Jose A. Garcia · April 13th, 2008, 06:05 PM

Yes, I know. As I said it would be just in case. Sometimes I want to shoot and edit uncompressed. The rest of the time I'd be using internal compression.

Dave Rosky · April 14th, 2008, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jose A. Garcia

Does the HF10 capture in real progresive even if it converts the stream to 60i after that? Is it easy to do the pulldown job?

The HF10/100, HG10, and SD9 all capture in real progressive. The HF10/100 and HG10 will require pulldown removal, and how easy that is will likely depend on your system, what editor you use, etc. Many editors don't support it, so in those cases it will be an extra step you will have to do first. That will take time, but you can always do something else while it's running. With the SD9, the 24P files are pure 24P and don't require inverse pulldown, but a number of editors (such as Vegas) still have trouble reading some Panasonic AVCHD files (this will eventually change though).

Also, I would be a little wary of general statements like "You would be better off getting camera A over camera B". Statements like that may be true in some respects but not in others. Each camera has it's own personality and it's own set of pros and cons which may have differing levels of importance for different people, so the best thing is really to check them all out and see what fits your usage the best.

Lorenzo Asso · April 23rd, 2008, 02:31 AM

I think the progressive we have in avchd actual cameras, (same thing about progressive hv20/30 hdv) is good only with very slow shooting...all clips i've seen about hv20/30 25p/30p progressive in pan conditions or with many objects in movement are not good, they are not fluid...and this is the same for the others consumer cameras that have that "future"...the real time progressive is good only in professional or semiprofessional camera...

Infact, imho, in consumer cameras it's better to shoot always in 1080i and deinterlace to 30p/60p using a very good deinterlacer method ( for example through avisynth's yadif filter...that does the difference compared to premiere internal deinterlacer).

ciao!

April 12th, 2008, 06:38 PM	#1
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	New with AVCHD, but looking for something quite specific. Hi all, I'm new in the AVCHD world but I really like the overall concept. Being a filmmaker I'm always looking for the best quality with little compression. I know that's not what AVCHD normally offers but I like the idea of having a small and light FullHD camera to take with me everywhere. The problem is that I'm a bit lost with so many different cams. Let's see if I can find what I want: - Full 1920x1080 from the sensor to the final clip. - CMOS sensor. - Real 24p. - Best possible image quality (of course). - Best possible compression. - Small and light. I've seen some Canon HF100 footage and I really like it, but I think it doesn't have real 24p, does it? What do you think? Thanks.

April 13th, 2008, 05:59 PM	#7
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	Another question on the HF10. Does the miniHDMI port outputs an uncompressed stream? Should I buy an Intensity card in case I want to record and edit with better quality? Last edited by Jose A. Garcia; April 14th, 2008 at 10:29 AM. Reason: Intensity! not Infinity...

April 13th, 2008, 06:05 PM	#9
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	Yes, I know. As I said it would be just in case. Sometimes I want to shoot and edit uncompressed. The rest of the time I'd be using internal compression. Last edited by Jose A. Garcia; April 14th, 2008 at 02:50 AM.

April 13th, 2008, 12:42 AM	#2
Eugenia Loli-Queru Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Bay Area, CA, USA Posts: 348	Depends of the definition of "real" 24p, I guess. ;) It is not "just" 24 frames per second, if that's what you are asking. You will still have to perform pulldown removal with one of the available methods to get a pure 24p stream.

April 13th, 2008, 06:26 AM	#3
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	I was refering to 24 progressive frames per second. But I've been reading lots of different threads and almost all cameras seem to need the pulldown removal. Anyway I think there're a few which capture in progressive, convert the stream to interlaced but then going back to progressive is easier, because both fields are captured at the same time. If real progressive is not easy to find, I prefer a camera with 24p option (even if it's not real) but with a really good image quality.

April 13th, 2008, 11:25 AM	#4
David Saraceno Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Inland Northwest Posts: 490	Panasonic SD9 is the only cam that does this to my knowledge. 1080/24p without pulldown.

April 13th, 2008, 12:18 PM	#5
Robin Lobel Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Paris, France Posts: 80	..but you should definitely go for the HF10 over the SD9, even if you have pulldown job to do.

April 13th, 2008, 05:05 PM	#6
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	Does the HF10 capture in real progresive even if it converts the stream to 60i after that? Is it easy to do the pulldown job?

April 13th, 2008, 06:02 PM	#8
David Saraceno Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Inland Northwest Posts: 490	HDMI out has be done live with the Intensity card. You know that you can't record to SD or disc and then output uncompressed via Intensity

April 23rd, 2008, 02:31 AM	#11
Lorenzo Asso Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Italy Posts: 47	I think the progressive we have in avchd actual cameras, (same thing about progressive hv20/30 hdv) is good only with very slow shooting...all clips i've seen about hv20/30 25p/30p progressive in pan conditions or with many objects in movement are not good, they are not fluid...and this is the same for the others consumer cameras that have that "future"...the real time progressive is good only in professional or semiprofessional camera... Infact, imho, in consumer cameras it's better to shoot always in 1080i and deinterlace to 30p/60p using a very good deinterlacer method ( for example through avisynth's yadif filter...that does the difference compared to premiere internal deinterlacer). ciao!