AVCHD Pros & Cons

[Edward Phillips]

Hello,
I have mostly worked with 3 chip professional level cameras and Avid editing software and my new job had such equipment but much of it is in need of repair or replacement. (Sony PD 150, DSR-250, Avid Xpress Pro with Mojo)

The decision right now is to replace the equipment with less expensive equipment. (Sony HDR-SR12, Sony Vegas, etc).

I've never worked with the consumer level versions of things and so I can't really tell the powers that be exactly what to expect from this. They beleive consumer HD will be superior to professional SD.

The only points I can truly say is that they will lose the abilty to use the XLR lapel mics (unless there's an XLR to mini converter).

Professional or prosumer level HD cameras seem to not be a financially feasible option.

What would you say is the pro and con of consumer HD vs professional SD? This is corporate work so I need not be worried with 24p but I do need to worry about audio, low light situations, and long form recording (4 or 5 hours of straight recording).

Would a good workflow be to import AVCHD into Vegas and export Quicktime to Avid since I'm more familair with this NLE?

[Bruce Foreman]

My guess would be no.

Better workflow would be something that edits AVCHD natively with no transcoding.

Whatever some folks prejudices against Pinnacle's Studio series is, it does handle AVCHD from start to finish and gives me all the output options I need for now.

I pull the media out of the cam, copy the .MTS files to a folder, fire up Studio 11 and point it to that folder to start working with the clips.

Drag 'n drop on the timeline and go to work. When done I output to AVCHD, standard def DVD, 1280x720p Windows Media File, AVI, MPEG4, and there are other options I haven't tried yet.

The workflow is simple and uncomplicated, Version 12 just announced will add BluRay disk authoring to the package (I'm using 11.1.2 right now). For now I archive the original footage by copying the project folder with the .MTS files over to 2 external 500GB hard drives.

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Bruce Foreman

Whatever some folks prejudices against Pinnacle's Studio series is, it does handle AVCHD from start to finish and gives me all the output options I need for now.

Does it remove pulldown?

[Kevin Shaw]

It sounds like you're seeking the most professional camera you can buy at a consumer-level price point, which is a bit of a contradiction. If the company can't afford at least $3k per camera you're going to lose low light sensitivity and pro audio inputs, so what recording format to use is the least of your worries. AVCHD may give you long continuous recording times but with potential headaches in post, compared to using DV cameras or HDV with DV downconvert.

I'd suggest considering a couple of used VX2000s or FX1s over new consumer-grade HD cameras, and for long record times just make sure you have two cameras running with staggered tape changes. The FX1 lacks XLR inputs but this can be resolved with a Beachtek or similar adapter which fits on the bottm of the camera, something which would be awkward on smaller consumer cameras.

No easy answers here, but try to find a way to get some semi-pro gear within the budget constaints.

[Osmany Tellez]

Originally Posted by Bruce Foreman

My guess would be no.

Better workflow would be something that edits AVCHD natively with no transcoding.

Whatever some folks prejudices against Pinnacle's Studio series is, it does handle AVCHD from start to finish and gives me all the output options I need for now.

I pull the media out of the cam, copy the .MTS files to a folder, fire up Studio 11 and point it to that folder to start working with the clips.

Drag 'n drop on the timeline and go to work. When done I output to AVCHD, standard def DVD, 1280x720p Windows Media File, AVI, MPEG4, and there are other options I haven't tried yet.

The workflow is simple and uncomplicated, Version 12 just announced will add BluRay disk authoring to the package (I'm using 11.1.2 right now). For now I archive the original footage by copying the project folder with the .MTS files over to 2 external 500GB hard drives.

Hi Bruce.

Thats great. what computer are you using and how is the performance? can you cut I frames only or anywhere?

Thanks you.
Osmany Tellez

[Edward Phillips]

Thanks to all for the info. Quick question about Pinnacle, I don't see Quicktime anywhere on the specs. Are .mov files not an option for import/export?

[Chris Barcellos]

Re: Pinnacle:

I cut with Pinnacle for years. It is what it is. A simple NLE that has many great features. Being consumer level, there is a lot of disdain for it among pros. I went over to Premiere and/or Vegas because when you started adding their plug ins to get effects you needed, you eventually end up putting out what you do for the other editors. You give up multiple track (more than 2) editing in sound and video. At the Studio level, the on board color correction is limited.

For a professional level editing solution, check out Cineform forum for their take on AVCHD transcoding to get an editable file format.

[Bruce Foreman]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

Does it remove pulldown?

No. But I consider (and this may be one person's opinion only here) pulldown to be an inconvenient result of adherence to "archaic" standards.

I achieve what looks to me and some others , a "filmic" look with Cine mode (special gamma, muted color, contrast, and "vividness"), and a camera that shoots in 30p. I get what I consider to be all the benefits without the 24fps "flicker" (if it can really be seen) and without the complication of pulldown removal.

Again, not meant to be contentious, this is one person's opinion and one person's choices. Fortunately there are many ways to enjoy this "calling", and none are necessarily wrong.

[Bruce Foreman]

Originally Posted by Osmany Tellez

Hi Bruce.

Thats great. what computer are you using and how is the performance? can you cut I frames only or anywhere?

Thanks you.
Osmany Tellez

Two. A desktop with Intel Core2 Quad Q6600 2.40Ghz processor, 4GB RAM, and an ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT 256MB graphics card. It really should have a 2.66Ghz clock speed for full 1920x1080 AVCHD so for now while I can shoot 1920x1080 I have Pinnacle set the project specs at 1440x1080.

The computer will edit the 1920x1080 but it works better at 1440x1080. When I replace the processor with a faster one, I can always go back to the original .MTS files and re-edit.

The other machine is a laptop with Intel Core2 Duo (dual core) 2.0Ghz processor, and integrated graphics. This one handles 1440x1080 just fine. And 1440x1080 looks great on a 42" LCD TV (tested with a couple of projects burned to a BluRay compliant file on a standard DVD+R played on a BluRay player.

As far as where it "cuts", I'm not really sure. So far it seems to "cut" where I want it to.

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Bruce Foreman

No. But I consider (and this may be one person's opinion only here) pulldown to be an inconvenient result of adherence to "archaic" standards.

I fully agree and have always recommended 25p or 30p.

But:

1) 99% of Canon users BELIEVE they SHOULD shoot 24p and do so.

2) Vimeo wants 720p24. They drop frames from 25p and 30p.

[Bruce Foreman]

Originally Posted by Edward Phillips

Thanks to all for the info. Quick question about Pinnacle, I don't see Quicktime anywhere on the specs. Are .mov files not an option for import/export?

Not straight from Studio. But having to submit in .mov for one venue my workaround was to export to a hi quality MP4 or AVI and then use Quicktime Pro to compress and export to .mov format.

How this worked out can be seen on some of my entries at www.uwolchallenge.com

[Aaron Courtney]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

I fully agree and have always recommended 25p or 30p.

The problem with shooting 30P is that the only way to deliver it via a physical, distributable medium (BD) is to flag it as 1080/60I even if you encode it as 1080/30P because BDA does not include 1080/30P as a supported format - STUPID. So that means you're entirely at the mercy of the video processor in the BD player, AVR, or display to correctly de-interlace 1080/30P in 60I which has proven to be quite the chore since the only chip that I know capable of doing the job is the Silicon Optix HQV Reon processor. I'm not sure whether ABT's 2010 is capable of matching the Reon with this job. I have emailed their product support and will soon have an answer.

At least with 24P you will have perfect compatibility with the newer progressive displays that use 2:2/48 Hz (Pannies - flicker bothers people), 3:3/72 Hz (Pio), 4:4/96 Hz, or 5:5/120 Hz (also probably unacceptable due to too "real" look reported by viewers). So "pulldown" is not necessarily evil. It's the 3:2 pulldown that results in fabricated frames on progressive displays that we're trying to avoid here. 3:3, 4:4, 5:5 simply repeats REAL frames at those intervals.