Joining AVCHD clips

Dave Pearce · August 3rd, 2008, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Horwitz

I wanted to add that I routinely join AVCHD clips using the latest Nero Vision as described above and there is absolutely no re-rendering.

I have recently tried full bitrate 24 MB/sec and 17 MB/sec Canon clips with no re-rendering whatsoever, and the output .mts file is within a few bytes of the sum of the original .mts clips.

All tests were NTSC.

I wish i could but have more or less given up.
Im pretty sure im doing everytihng right but see no way of getting the smart encoding for audio to show 100%.
I cant figure out whats going wrong but to me it makes sense that Vision is transcoding.
Unless the output is the same as the input files then i can see a need for transcoding.

Larry Horwitz · August 3rd, 2008, 07:40 AM

Dave,

I am purely guessing that PAL versus NTSC works differently. I am using entirely default settings, have not done anything special to engage 'Smart Rendering', and I imagine you should see similar behaviour unless the program somehow treats PAL differently.

Larry

Dave Pearce · August 3rd, 2008, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Horwitz

Dave,

I am purely guessing that PAL versus NTSC works differently. I am using entirely default settings, have not done anything special to engage 'Smart Rendering', and I imagine you should see similar behaviour unless the program somehow treats PAL differently.

Larry

Thanks Larry. You might be right.
As i normally would edit all my clips ill not dwell too much on getting this running but im one of these people that works to get things going, even if i dont need it.
It will bug me until i do get it going though.

Dave.

Larry Horwitz · August 3rd, 2008, 11:19 AM

Dave,

It might be worth an email to Nero support asking why others have success with Smart Rendering and you do not.

Alternate;y, the thought also occured to me that you could download an NTSC .mts clip from one of the several US or Japanese web sites and load it into your version of Nero and see if the NTSC content behaves as others, myself included, describe it. This might help distinguish between a bad Nero software installation rather than PAL versus NTSC rendering differences.

Good luck,

Larry

Bill Jernigan · August 5th, 2008, 07:01 PM

Well, finally got it to work. Updated Nero so I'm using the lates Showtime release. Although here's a weird thing- The files I were trying to use that caused a re-render, been using these same ones to test out different programs, would always cause a re-render. On a whim I tried using some different files from the camera and they worked. But as I go through the earlier files I have, some work with out a re-render, some don't. On some, the video shows that smart render will work, but not the audio, on others, the audio but not the video. Although so far this seems to be happening radomly to the very first files from when I first started using the camera. I've been testing so many different programs out that it's possible that they had done something to the older files. I still had the originals on the camera, so I down loaded them again and retested them. Now those are working fine without a rerender. This is one of the truely awsome things about these harddrive cameras, being able to browse through hours of footage and retransfering to the computer- all in just a couple minutes.

So Dave, you might try using different files to run through the program and see if all cause a less than 100% audio smart render. Apparently one of the programs I had been testing had changed the original files, which they weren't suppose to do.

P.S. I don't recall seeing this mentioned yet, but remember to get the Nero Showtime to take multiple clips and make them as one, you have to remember to push the "Merge Titles" button that is on the left side of the "Content" screen ( this is the screen where you add video files).

Thanks for the help.

Dave Pearce · August 6th, 2008, 02:10 AM

Thanks bill.
Actually now that i recall i was getting variations in the amount of smart encoding Vision was reporting for the audio and i was trying different files but ill try some fresh ones, just to make sure nothing has altered.
Im still not sure why my output files were 20BG + though.

Are you using Vision? You mention Showtime a few times?

Dave.

Mircea Voinea · August 6th, 2008, 02:35 AM

Hi,
I'm very interested in a video editing program that doesn't require rendering for joining clips. It seems that Nero Vision is one of them (but with little problems); I also read about Cyberlink PowerDirector to be able to do this (latest build). Did anyone tried PowerDirector?
I will download an evaluation program and report myself; for some strange reasons Cyberlink evaluation it's not always the last build and you don't have smartrendering (fixes appears faster than evaluations build).

Dave Pearce · August 6th, 2008, 03:04 AM

Just an update.
I loaded Nero on to another PC and with the clips i gave it it worked fine. No re encoding and the output file plays fine.
I think ill uninstal it at home and try again.
But, if i now try and put that file in to Vegas it will only import as an audio file.
Bugger. I was hoping to use this one large file (only 120mb mind) rather than importing the smaller ones.

Any ideas guys?

Bill Jernigan · August 6th, 2008, 02:25 PM

Woops, meant to say Vision, not Showtime. Testing out so many different programs it gets confusing after awhile.

Larry Horwitz · August 6th, 2008, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mircea Voinea

Hi,
I'm very interested in a video editing program that doesn't require rendering for joining clips. It seems that Nero Vision is one of them (but with little problems); I also read about Cyberlink PowerDirector to be able to do this (latest build). Did anyone tried PowerDirector?
I will download an evaluation program and report myself; for some strange reasons Cyberlink evaluation it's not always the last build and you don't have smartrendering (fixes appears faster than evaluations build).

Mircia,

Cyberlink PowerDirector cannot smart render AVCHD, and takes a very long time, even on my quadcore QX9650 Extreme. You may like some of its other features but speed is not good at all.

Dave...I am very happy to hear that the Nero Vision joining and smart rendering is now working. I never considered asking you if you were using the latest versions, and assumed you were.

I still feel a bit embarrassed to admit that I use Nero Vision so much, since I own Final Cut Pro Studio, Vegas 8 Pro, and a half dozen other programs here, but Nero is the ONLY one which gets rendering done properly, and I especially like their animated 3D AVCHD/HD menus. They put Pinnacle, Ulead, Sony, Cycberlink, and Apple to shame as far as I am concerned in both their rendering as well as their menu animations. Considering that Nero Vision is merely one of many programs you get for about $70, and that their burning software is probably the best around, it is a remarkable bargain.

I would go so far as to say that if Nero offered a stand-alone NLE package for $99 with more control and options for advanced AVCHD disk creation, I would buy it in a heart-beat based on all the other stuff I use, most of which is far too slow. Best of all, their final output exactly matches the original clips. Believe me when I tell you that enlarged crops as well as normal HDTV viewing shows the effects of rendering on virtually all of the other AVCHD authoring products, in some cases glaringly.

Larry

Dave Pearce · August 6th, 2008, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Jernigan

Whoops, meant to say Vision, not Showtime. Testing out so many different programs it gets confusing after awhile.

I thought so. Thanks for clearing that up.
I've had more luck at home tonight. I think there is something funny about the clips Ive been trying to join as Ive just tried some others and it works fine. Didn't have to re install anything.
Ive also tried Pixela Imagemixer that came with the HF10 and that too seems to work.
Unfortunately none of these outputted files work probably in Vegas. I guess its not a big deal as the whole idea was to join them so i could stream them in one go to my TV but even my PCH and PS3 are giving me blank frames at the joins so ill abandon the whole thing now.
Thanks for all the help guys.

Dave.

Dave Pearce · August 9th, 2008, 08:57 AM

Just wanted to make a final post to say ive finally got ImageMixer3 to join the files with no issues at all now.
thanks for all the tips.

Dave

Peter Holzel · February 27th, 2009, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Horwitz

I wanted to add that I routinely join AVCHD clips using the latest Nero Vision as described above and there is absolutely no re-rendering.

I have recently tried full bitrate 24 MB/sec and 17 MB/sec Canon clips with no re-rendering whatsoever, and the output .mts file is within a few bytes of the sum of the original .mts clips.

All tests were NTSC.

Hi, Larry. When you say you "join" clips, do you mean you edit clips in Nero and then join them? I haven't been able to get Nero to do this while maintaining smart-render capability. (Nor have I been able to with PD7, which I know you also like).
Thanks.

Tom Alexander · February 27th, 2009, 11:56 AM

Heres a free tool that may help:

.mts clip join tool - Page 2 - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking

It was put together by a user of that forum to join the .mts clips together from the HMC150, but should work with any AVCHD clips.

Laurence Bannister · April 6th, 2009, 04:53 PM

I haven't had a chance to check out the pervious user's suggestion but I use a beaut little program called TSmuxeR (http://www.smlabs.net/tsMuxer/tsMuxeR_1.8.35(b).zip)

I found the the M2TS file produced by my sony HDR-XR500V was really quite difficult to work with. Firstly, I don't own any commercial editing software so I could try any of those and secondly, I hate losing quality with re-encoding.

Also I want the file size of the merged clips to be no larger than the sum of the initial files

My WOrk flow is this.

Transfer the video to your computer.

Use the supplied tools with the camera to trim what you don't want. (there's an option for this in TSmuxeR but I've never used it)

Using TSmuxeR join/append the M2TS files select the output to M2TS and hit the "start muxing" button.

The resulting file is still a dog to work with but you've not lost any quality and you don't need a terrabyte of HDD to store your file.

If you just want to work with M2T files, I just use avidemux to achieve the same result only a LOT easier.

Hope this helps

L

August 3rd, 2008, 07:40 AM	#17
Larry Horwitz Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Eggertsville, NY Posts: 528	Dave, I am purely guessing that PAL versus NTSC works differently. I am using entirely default settings, have not done anything special to engage 'Smart Rendering', and I imagine you should see similar behaviour unless the program somehow treats PAL differently. Larry

August 3rd, 2008, 11:19 AM	#19
Larry Horwitz Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Eggertsville, NY Posts: 528	Dave, It might be worth an email to Nero support asking why others have success with Smart Rendering and you do not. Alternate;y, the thought also occured to me that you could download an NTSC .mts clip from one of the several US or Japanese web sites and load it into your version of Nero and see if the NTSC content behaves as others, myself included, describe it. This might help distinguish between a bad Nero software installation rather than PAL versus NTSC rendering differences. Good luck, Larry

August 5th, 2008, 07:01 PM	#20
Bill Jernigan New Boot Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Denton , TX Posts: 19	Well, finally got it to work. Updated Nero so I'm using the lates Showtime release. Although here's a weird thing- The files I were trying to use that caused a re-render, been using these same ones to test out different programs, would always cause a re-render. On a whim I tried using some different files from the camera and they worked. But as I go through the earlier files I have, some work with out a re-render, some don't. On some, the video shows that smart render will work, but not the audio, on others, the audio but not the video. Although so far this seems to be happening radomly to the very first files from when I first started using the camera. I've been testing so many different programs out that it's possible that they had done something to the older files. I still had the originals on the camera, so I down loaded them again and retested them. Now those are working fine without a rerender. This is one of the truely awsome things about these harddrive cameras, being able to browse through hours of footage and retransfering to the computer- all in just a couple minutes. So Dave, you might try using different files to run through the program and see if all cause a less than 100% audio smart render. Apparently one of the programs I had been testing had changed the original files, which they weren't suppose to do. P.S. I don't recall seeing this mentioned yet, but remember to get the Nero Showtime to take multiple clips and make them as one, you have to remember to push the "Merge Titles" button that is on the left side of the "Content" screen ( this is the screen where you add video files). Thanks for the help.

August 6th, 2008, 02:10 AM	#21
Dave Pearce Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: London, UK. Posts: 43	Thanks bill. Actually now that i recall i was getting variations in the amount of smart encoding Vision was reporting for the audio and i was trying different files but ill try some fresh ones, just to make sure nothing has altered. Im still not sure why my output files were 20BG + though. Are you using Vision? You mention Showtime a few times? Dave.

August 6th, 2008, 02:35 AM	#22
Mircea Voinea Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Targu Jiu, Romania Posts: 29	Hi, I'm very interested in a video editing program that doesn't require rendering for joining clips. It seems that Nero Vision is one of them (but with little problems); I also read about Cyberlink PowerDirector to be able to do this (latest build). Did anyone tried PowerDirector? I will download an evaluation program and report myself; for some strange reasons Cyberlink evaluation it's not always the last build and you don't have smartrendering (fixes appears faster than evaluations build).

August 6th, 2008, 03:04 AM	#23
Dave Pearce Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: London, UK. Posts: 43	Just an update. I loaded Nero on to another PC and with the clips i gave it it worked fine. No re encoding and the output file plays fine. I think ill uninstal it at home and try again. But, if i now try and put that file in to Vegas it will only import as an audio file. Bugger. I was hoping to use this one large file (only 120mb mind) rather than importing the smaller ones. Any ideas guys?

August 6th, 2008, 02:25 PM	#24
Bill Jernigan New Boot Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Denton , TX Posts: 19	Woops, meant to say Vision, not Showtime. Testing out so many different programs it gets confusing after awhile.

August 9th, 2008, 08:57 AM	#27
Dave Pearce Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: London, UK. Posts: 43	Just wanted to make a final post to say ive finally got ImageMixer3 to join the files with no issues at all now. thanks for all the tips. Dave

February 27th, 2009, 11:56 AM	#29
Tom Alexander Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ontario, Ca. Posts: 121	Heres a free tool that may help: .mts clip join tool - Page 2 - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking It was put together by a user of that forum to join the .mts clips together from the HMC150, but should work with any AVCHD clips.

April 6th, 2009, 04:53 PM	#30
Laurence Bannister New Boot Join Date: May 2008 Location: Perth AUSTRALIA Posts: 7	I haven't had a chance to check out the pervious user's suggestion but I use a beaut little program called TSmuxeR (http://www.smlabs.net/tsMuxer/tsMuxeR_1.8.35(b).zip) I found the the M2TS file produced by my sony HDR-XR500V was really quite difficult to work with. Firstly, I don't own any commercial editing software so I could try any of those and secondly, I hate losing quality with re-encoding. Also I want the file size of the merged clips to be no larger than the sum of the initial files My WOrk flow is this. Transfer the video to your computer. Use the supplied tools with the camera to trim what you don't want. (there's an option for this in TSmuxeR but I've never used it) Using TSmuxeR join/append the M2TS files select the output to M2TS and hit the "start muxing" button. The resulting file is still a dog to work with but you've not lost any quality and you don't need a terrabyte of HDD to store your file. If you just want to work with M2T files, I just use avidemux to achieve the same result only a LOT easier. Hope this helps L