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Old July 15th, 2008, 02:12 AM   #1
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From Sony HC1 to SR12?

Hi
I have almost the 3 years the sony HC1. Should i replace it with the SR12?
I read that the SR12 may have better low light perfomance than the canon HV30, is that true?
Should i see better image quality from SR12?

thanks
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Old July 16th, 2008, 04:24 AM   #2
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Hi
Should i see better image quality from SR12?
Nope. The HC1 image quality is for me unmatched to date, exept may be by the best Canons.
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Old July 16th, 2008, 11:40 AM   #3
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Well I had just about all the consumers HD cams including the HC1. To my eyes the SR12 produces a picture with lower noise, broader color palette and just about equal resolution.
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Old July 16th, 2008, 02:24 PM   #4
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Well I had just about all the consumers HD cams including the HC1. To my eyes the SR12 produces a picture with lower noise, broader color palette and just about equal resolution.
Since the A1 has all the controls I want, I'm curious about the noise you mention. The SR11 is amazing as long as gain doesn't go above +12dB. But, +12dB is the limit for most Sony camcorders. Thus, do you have sense of how different the sensitivity is say in a room with a few hundred watts of light.
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Old July 16th, 2008, 06:01 PM   #5
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Since the A1 has all the controls I want, I'm curious about the noise you mention. The SR11 is amazing as long as gain doesn't go above +12dB. But, +12dB is the limit for most Sony camcorders. Thus, do you have sense of how different the sensitivity is say in a room with a few hundred watts of light.
Steve, I'd go so far as to say that +12 db is the limit for most consumer camcorders, regardless of manufacturer. What's lacking in the SR12 that I have in my VX2000 & VX2100 (and had in my FX series) is a gain limit ability. I never allow my VX's to go beyond 12db.

In terms of sensitivity, I never really lined up the cams to test for that specifically. I can tell you that in a room with a couple of hundred watts of light, there is very little noise in the SR12. Some cam manufacturers seem to ramp up the gain very quickly to produce a brighter image. The fact is that many of these cams produce a brighter image than your eyes actually see, but at the expense of noise. I've never seen the value in that. Give me a luminance value that more closely mimics the actual lighting conditions and throw in the resultant lower noise levels that result. The SR12 seems to do that better than most consumer HD cams.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 01:16 AM   #6
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Nope. The HC1 image quality is for me unmatched to date, exept may be by the best Canons.
I don't agree. I had the occasion to test the HC1, Panasonic HDC-SD9 and Canon HF100 side by side on a full HD screen two weeks ago, the HC1 was distinct third.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 01:20 AM   #7
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Give me a luminance value that more closely mimics the actual lighting conditions and throw in the resultant lower noise levels that result.
I use Twilite to limit gain to +9db, but I really wish they had included a +12dB limit option OR made +12dB the normal limit and given a HIGH gain option of +18dB. At +12dB the scene is exactly as my eyes see it -- and still very near NO noise.

I shot my room with about 100W on a dimmer. Turning it down slowly I was blown away by the SR11's ability to simply get darker WITHOUT a significant increase in noise. In fact, on the LCD I saw NO noise even at the point were it was possible to see something my eyes couldn't see. Given I was looking at the LCD in complete darkness it was something I've never seen before.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 07:10 AM   #8
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Agreed. Manual control of gain would be a very very welcome feature. I haven't used the twilight mode in that manner. Do you find it alters the image in any other way other than limiting gain?
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Old July 17th, 2008, 01:50 PM   #9
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I've not explored any of the presets in the SR12. Is there a resource somewhere that details what the parameters are for each preset??
That would be very useful info since there is such limited manual control.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 04:31 PM   #10
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I've not explored any of the presets in the SR12. Is there a resource somewhere that details what the parameters are for each preset??
That would be very useful info since there is such limited manual control.
Hopefully Sunday night my "SR Handbook" will get uploaded and available for sale.

I'm rewriting the color balance chapter and I need to see what what Sony means by Twilite "focus at a distance." I measured it years ago, but need to do it again. I really don't know WHY they just don't have a simple gain limiter.

JVC's AGC works nicely -- JVC determines the point where minimal noise shows up and limits max to that amount. (Why tie it to Twilight?) If you want max sensitivity you turn on Slow Shutter.

PS: Ken, my refurbished Sony FZ arrived today. Now I'll be able to burn and play BD.
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