Panasonic HDC-SD9 Artifacts at DVinfo.net

Kenneth Medin · July 28th, 2008, 04:35 PM

Got a Panasonic HDC-SD9 AVCHD camcorder today and it works pretty well in progressive mode. In interlaced, however, there are lots of (compression?) artifacts whenever I pan or zoom.

I think the two modes are 1920 at 25p and 1920 at 50i (PAL) and I shot two similar scenes in each mode at highest bitrate setting. I tried to be kind to the camera and hold still with OIS on but the artifacts show up right away on the interlaced clip. In some other scenes with panning the camera simply made a disaster and must be considered defunct when in interlaced mode!

I bought this camera because of the CCD instead of CMOS (with rolling shutter issues) and plan to use it mostly in 25p so I guess I'm satisfied afterall... But I'm really suprised that the 50i modes are useless! The manual states that these artifacts may occure mainly in the HE (6 Mbps) mode but I used 17 Mbps!

I did put up the two clips right after each other on Vimeo at:
http://www.vimeo.com/1425344

Kenneth Medin · July 28th, 2008, 05:32 PM

Oops! I installed HD Writer 2.5E that came with the camera and in this player the interlaced scenes are OK without artifacts. Guess I have to look through my standard setup and check for optimizations or new versions of the various freeware tools I use...

Roger Shore · July 28th, 2008, 07:34 PM

I have the SD5, so recording real time in progressive mode is not an option for me.

I have found that converting my interlaced footage to progressive, in post, really makes quite a difference to the way the footage plays on my LCD monitor - better than the interlaced versions, on the standard players I have installed on my PC. It also means that I can select various 'de interlacing' options from different programs, without being restricted to recording progressive in real time.

One thing I don't understand - is it true that recording footage as progressive on the SD9 automatically alters the colour balance - and that is not an optional change?

Seems a bit of an odd feature!

Kenneth Medin · July 29th, 2008, 04:35 AM

It was a software issue. Installed latest ffdshow Tryouts (rev2054_20080727) and now the artefacts are gone!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Shore

I have found that converting my interlaced footage to progressive, in post, really makes quite a difference to the way the footage plays on my LCD monitor - better than the interlaced versions, on the standard players I have installed on my PC. It also means that I can select various 'de interlacing' options from different programs, without being restricted to recording progressive in real time.

I'm not too experienced with interlaced video... As all monitors these days are progressive (CRT is dead) it seems odd to use interlace at all. On the other hand you catch motion better with 50i compared to 25p. By interpolation it should be possible to get a good looking 1280x720 50p video from 1920x1080 50i, I think. Need to experiment on that...

Quote:

One thing I don't understand - is it true that recording footage as progressive on the SD9 automatically alters the colour balance - and that is not an optional change?

Seems a bit of an odd feature!

Yes, indeed! It's is optional in interlaced mode only.

Dave Rosky · August 1st, 2008, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenneth Medin

Oops! I installed HD Writer 2.5E that came with the camera and in this player the interlaced scenes are OK without artifacts. Guess I have to look through my standard setup and check for optimizations or new versions of the various freeware tools I use...

I'm not sure which freeware tools you are using, but one tool I use is ffplay (ffmpeg), and I have noticed that ffplay can play the 24p files from the SD9 much better than the 60i files. The 60i files break up a lot and show a lot of blockiness. it plays Canon 60i from the HF100 much better, so Panasonic seems to be doing something that, while meeting the AVCHD standard, somehow confuses some of the freeware tools.

Kenneth Medin · August 2nd, 2008, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Rosky

I'm not sure which freeware tools you are using, but one tool I use is ffplay (ffmpeg), and I have noticed that ffplay can play the 24p files from the SD9 much better than the 60i files.

I use Ffdshow Tryouts to decode the video. An upgrade to the latest beta solved my problems. This is what it looks like now: http://www.vimeo.com/1453238
10 min shot both outside and inside with camera 5.1 surround (if downloaded AVI only) that sounds surprisingly well except for some wind noice.

Ross McKinnon · August 9th, 2008, 04:12 AM

I haven't found any problems with my SD9, apart from it doesn't like OIS being on when I have it attached to my helicopter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azil25zXxiA

Ross

Roger Shore · August 20th, 2008, 01:16 PM

Looks pretty good Ross -I've always fancied trying that, but I'm a real dumklutz when it comes to flying model helis- --don't fancy wrecking several hundred quids worth of heli and camera!!
BTW, about 20 seconds in -is that Croyde Bay ? I spent some holidays there about 40 years ago, and it looks sort of familiar!.....

Ross McKinnon · August 20th, 2008, 07:02 PM

Hi Roger, I only started helis in March of this year, I use a flight sim to mess about on, then bought the real thing a 600 class heli, love it. Yes it is Croyde Bay, which is about 15 mins from where I live, just love the area. Going to get my 40D up when we get a nice evening & get some aerial photos looking across Saunton & Croyde...if I can get the altitude to be able to do it. My mrs filmed the red arrows in south devon last week & I must admit I'm very impressed with the SD9, a few minor niggles but nothing major.
YouTube - Dawlish Airshow 2008

You should travel down this way again, bring a tent & have a great few days, bring back old memories so to speak.

Ross

July 28th, 2008, 04:35 PM	#1
Kenneth Medin New Boot Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Gothenburg Sweden Posts: 14	Panasonic HDC-SD9 Artifacts Got a Panasonic HDC-SD9 AVCHD camcorder today and it works pretty well in progressive mode. In interlaced, however, there are lots of (compression?) artifacts whenever I pan or zoom. I think the two modes are 1920 at 25p and 1920 at 50i (PAL) and I shot two similar scenes in each mode at highest bitrate setting. I tried to be kind to the camera and hold still with OIS on but the artifacts show up right away on the interlaced clip. In some other scenes with panning the camera simply made a disaster and must be considered defunct when in interlaced mode! I bought this camera because of the CCD instead of CMOS (with rolling shutter issues) and plan to use it mostly in 25p so I guess I'm satisfied afterall... But I'm really suprised that the 50i modes are useless! The manual states that these artifacts may occure mainly in the HE (6 Mbps) mode but I used 17 Mbps! I did put up the two clips right after each other on Vimeo at: http://www.vimeo.com/1425344

August 9th, 2008, 04:12 AM	#7
Ross McKinnon New Boot Join Date: May 2008 Location: Barnstaple, UK Posts: 13	I haven't found any problems with my SD9, apart from it doesn't like OIS being on when I have it attached to my helicopter. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azil25zXxiA Ross __________________ Panasonic HDC-SD9 & Panasonic MX300

August 20th, 2008, 07:02 PM	#9
Ross McKinnon New Boot Join Date: May 2008 Location: Barnstaple, UK Posts: 13	Hi Roger, I only started helis in March of this year, I use a flight sim to mess about on, then bought the real thing a 600 class heli, love it. Yes it is Croyde Bay, which is about 15 mins from where I live, just love the area. Going to get my 40D up when we get a nice evening & get some aerial photos looking across Saunton & Croyde...if I can get the altitude to be able to do it. My mrs filmed the red arrows in south devon last week & I must admit I'm very impressed with the SD9, a few minor niggles but nothing major. YouTube - Dawlish Airshow 2008 You should travel down this way again, bring a tent & have a great few days, bring back old memories so to speak. Ross __________________ Panasonic HDC-SD9 & Panasonic MX300

July 28th, 2008, 05:32 PM	#2
Kenneth Medin New Boot Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Gothenburg Sweden Posts: 14	Oops! I installed HD Writer 2.5E that came with the camera and in this player the interlaced scenes are OK without artifacts. Guess I have to look through my standard setup and check for optimizations or new versions of the various freeware tools I use...

July 28th, 2008, 07:34 PM	#3
Roger Shore Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: UK Posts: 113	I have the SD5, so recording real time in progressive mode is not an option for me. I have found that converting my interlaced footage to progressive, in post, really makes quite a difference to the way the footage plays on my LCD monitor - better than the interlaced versions, on the standard players I have installed on my PC. It also means that I can select various 'de interlacing' options from different programs, without being restricted to recording progressive in real time. One thing I don't understand - is it true that recording footage as progressive on the SD9 automatically alters the colour balance - and that is not an optional change? Seems a bit of an odd feature!

August 20th, 2008, 01:16 PM	#8
Roger Shore Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: UK Posts: 113	Looks pretty good Ross -I've always fancied trying that, but I'm a real dumklutz when it comes to flying model helis- --don't fancy wrecking several hundred quids worth of heli and camera!! BTW, about 20 seconds in -is that Croyde Bay ? I spent some holidays there about 40 years ago, and it looks sort of familiar!.....