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AVCHD Format Discussion
Inexpensive High Definition H.264 encoding to DVD, Hard Disc or SD Card.


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Old December 2nd, 2008, 05:42 PM   #151
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Yes I agree. There is much I have yet to learn about this program. Can hardly wait to burn more AVCHD DVDs of footage from my SR11 using Nero and seeing the beautiful results (if I can remember what I did correct). I support your efforts in getting Nero to expand their editing bundle. It sure would be nice it they were to produce some kind of update for us to download.

Thanks Larry.
Mike
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Old December 3rd, 2008, 07:57 AM   #152
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Hi, Larry. Can you go through your workflow for making smart rendered AVCHD files (not disks) using the HF100 with Power Director? I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong which is causing the pixelation in the rendered file. Thanks.
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Old December 3rd, 2008, 08:13 AM   #153
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Peter,

I'd be glad to, but, I really would like to see a sample clip which you produced which shows pixellation. The player and CPU are more suspect in my experience and I want to see what you are encountering on my own system where I have a solid frame of reference.

Please xfer / email the Produce.m2ts file using gmail.
Thanks.....

Larry
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Old December 3rd, 2008, 09:37 PM   #154
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Just to clarify Peter,

You are using a dual core AMD processor introduced in May of 2006. My experience and that of other AVCHD editors / users is that a quadcore is a minumum requirement, and preferably a fast quadcore with a lot of RAM.

My experience with less capable CPUs which try to handle AVCHD is that they stutter, pixelate, and, in some cases, stall entirely when trying to play or edit AVCHD.

I am NOT having the pixelation problem you describe, but seriously question if your hardware is capable of handling the output file you are referring to.

I would thus be glad to continue helping you further, but I want to see what the file actually looks like on a machine I have personal experience with which handles AVCHD using the same Power Director 7 and other software extremely well.

Please email as per my request so I can help you further.

Larry.
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Old December 4th, 2008, 07:51 AM   #155
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Hi Larry, I will send it along when I have some time to create it. The reason I don't think it's a hardware issue is: the AVCHD files I create with Nero/Pixela/and VSX2 (after running the MTS file through Nero) do not have the pixelation when I play them back. This makes me think that my computer is powerful enough to play AVCHD (although not at an ideal frame rate). My computer stutters sometimes on playback, but it never pixelates with those other files as it does with PD.

Since you are not having the pixelation issue with PD, I suspect that I have not configured PD correctly to produce full quality results. I will probably have time tonight to create the clip.
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Old December 4th, 2008, 07:52 AM   #156
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Maybe PD only works for making full quality AVCHD disks as opposed to AVCHD files? I appreciate your help.
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Old December 4th, 2008, 08:03 AM   #157
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Larry, I found an interesting page out of the PD7 manual (see below). According to this, it looks like clips are rendered for 2 seconds before and after a cut/trim. Maybe this is where I'm seeing the pixelation. Also it looks like I won't be able to produce a test file for you since I can only save a file up to 20mb on the mail account, and according to this, all videos under a minute are fully re-rendered if there are any edits. I will test this theory hopefully tonight.


In the following conditions, clips (or portions of clips) must be rendered
during production, and SVRT can therefore not be applied:
Adding a title or transition effect
Modifying the color of a video clip
Audio profile does not match destination production profile
Modifying the volume of an audio clip
Merging two video clips (clips within 2 seconds before or after
the merged clips will be rendered)
Splitting a video clip (clips within 2 seconds before or after the
split will be rendered)
Trimming a video clip (clips within 2 seconds before or after the
trimmed clip will be rendered)
If the total duration of the production is less than one minute
and any portion of the video requires rendering, the entire
production will be rendered for efficiency reasons.
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Old December 4th, 2008, 07:52 PM   #158
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Larry, I posted a file on rapidshare:

RapidShare: Easy Filehosting

I see pixelation in the grass and sky near the beginning. It seems that PD has tried to group similar pixels together in an effort to reduce the file size.
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Old December 4th, 2008, 08:22 PM   #159
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Hey Larry, how do you make chapters in Nero. The manual from on line says to go to the contents screen and highlight the video title. Does highlight mean to click on it so that you go to your saved project?
And then it says on the (it shows a small movie time placard), click on the "add chapter" button. Where is this placard? I see no add chapter button.

Can you give me an easier method of creating chapters in a project on Nero?

Thanks,
Mike
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Old December 4th, 2008, 08:49 PM   #160
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I posted a second file that does not contain the pixelation of the first file. This file was created by smart-rendering with Nero, and then editing and smart rendering with VSX2. This is the current workflow that I use, and I think it's the best at this point for HF100 AVCHD. You'll notice that there are no jitters at cuts, and there is no pixelation.

RapidShare: Easy Filehosting
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Old December 4th, 2008, 09:19 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Burgess View Post
Hey Larry, how do you make chapters in Nero. The manual from on line says to go to the contents screen and highlight the video title. Does highlight mean to click on it so that you go to your saved project?
And then it says on the (it shows a small movie time placard), click on the "add chapter" button. Where is this placard? I see no add chapter button.

Can you give me an easier method of creating chapters in a project on Nero?

Thanks,
Mike
Mike,
This is very conventional. You chose "Create Chapters" from the menu I have attached as the first jpeg below, and once the new screen appears, you then either:

scrub the timeline manually and add chapters using the left green button shown in the 2nd jpeg

or

scan the time line automatically to detect scene changes / add chapters using the right green button.

Larry
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Burning AVCH Disks Please Help!!-auto-manual-chapter-create-buttons.jpg  
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Last edited by Larry Horwitz; December 4th, 2008 at 09:49 PM.
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Old December 4th, 2008, 09:26 PM   #162
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Better view of chapter add buttons
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Old December 4th, 2008, 09:44 PM   #163
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Peter,

Thanks for the SVRT description. Also to answer your earlier question, both movie and AVCHD disk production result in the same content and quality, and one is not in any way I am aware of rendered differently.

Now....regarding both of your videos...let me tell you exactly what I am seeing here on a very fast quadcore with a very capable video card and a very high quality 1920 by 1080 Samsung display 26 inch:

Your PD7 rendered clip looks extremely crisp, equal to the quality of the HF100, and very much the same quality video I get from my HF100 from PD7. I see ABSOLUTELY NO PIXELLATION WHATSOEVER, and the only artifacts which detract from the true scene are those produced by the AVCHD encoder in your camcorder being (as is mine and all of the others in HF100s) slightly overwhelmed by fast horizontal pans through very detailed and highly complex material, specifically the roof shingles and to a lesser extent the tree branches. The sky and grass do not exhibit any blocking, pixellation, or other evidence of degredation that I can detect.

When I view your second video, I see a less detailed image with lots of detail no longer being displayed, with noticeable smearing of fine detail. In engineering terms it is called "low pass filtering", and looks like re-rendered mpeg.

I placed your first video into my favorite AVC/h.264 editor, TMPGE Express 4 latest version, which is as good as I have found for frame / GOP examination of AVC content, and stepped through manually to examine GOPs / frames, just to confirm that the rendered video was not exhibiting any breakups, macroblocks, or other indications of failure. I do not see any.

If it would ease your mind, tell me a specific time into your first video where you see this problem and I can do a frame grab which should demonstrate to you that the video content is entirely intact and correct, at least as I am seeing it here.

I certainly hope that others will download both of your videos and offer their comments as well. I must admit that my eyes are not great, and it is late in the day, so I may be missing something.....

My sincere and honest opinion is that your computer is just being overloaded, and frankly, I am not surprised. It needs to be more than a 2 core AMD from 2006 vintage, with more RAM and a faster bus, video card, etc.

If you have a true BluRay player which handles AVCHD or a PS3, why not author a disk and see what you find using this playback method? I am guessing your pixellation issue will disappear.

Larry
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Old December 4th, 2008, 09:58 PM   #164
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By the way Peter, the doggie is adorable......

I am a huge dog lover..... (-:
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Old December 5th, 2008, 12:05 AM   #165
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Peter,

I have a way of showing you very clearly what your pixellation issue really is:

I have done a frame grab on your two videos at about 14 seconds into the movies, and have selected a very small (approx 26 pixel wide) region of the frame which corresponds to the small rectangular house numbering to the immediate left of the front door of the home shown in your videos.

The home numbering in the PD7 output retains some amount of detail, and the more detailed delineation between the 3 digits and the background is roughly visible in the PD7 frame.

In the other JPEG, using the same frame and same selected region, the details of the 3 digit numbering are entirely dropped / smeared / blurred.

This effect occurs across all of the 2nd video, which, I stated earlier, has been "low pass filtered" / blurred in detail.

The important thing for your to know and recognize is that the REMOVAL OF DETAIL ALLOWS YOUR underpowered system to display the 2nd video without any hesitation, but the more correct and much more detailed image OVERWHELMS YOUR SYSTEM producing the pixellation complaint.

The bottom line is that you MUST effectively downrez your AVCHD content in order for it to play properly.

Your computer / player can either drop frames, lower the frame rate, or drop resolution, or some combination of these 3 things in order for you to see something which seems to be smooth and free of pixellation. This is NOT the proper way to judge and view the content, and you must SPOIL the video in order to see it.

I hope this gives you better insight into what is taking place.

Best,

Larry
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