Burning AVCH Disks Please Help!! - Page 8 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > High Definition Video Acquisition > AVCHD Format Discussion

AVCHD Format Discussion
Inexpensive High Definition H.264 encoding to DVD, Hard Disc or SD Card.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 20th, 2008, 07:06 PM   #106
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 45
I've tried Nero Vision with Nero 8, and I am not able to edit my HF100 AVCHD and then smart render it. I am able to smart render if I don't do anything to the original clip. But if I make some cuts or trims, and try to create the HF100 file structure saved to my computer, the smart render is always at 0%. I also noticed that I can't set the video bit rate any higher than 14000 kb/s. But, in previous posts by Larry, he has recommended folks setting it to 15000 kb/s. I know that the max bit rate of the HF100 is 17000 kb/s, so I feel that I would want to set it to that. Any input is appreciated. Thanks.
Peter Holzel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2008, 10:45 PM   #107
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Eggertsville, NY
Posts: 528
Peter,

I leave the Automatic Smart Encoding mode set to the default settings and my HF100 content is output at the same bitrate as the original. I agree that that the manual settings seem to indicate otherwise, but the resulting video and audio, as reported by 3 players I have here, all maintains the very same unmodified video and audio bitrates. I would just leave it set to the default.

As regards re-rendering, it appears that merging clips, using unmodified clips, or trimming clips from either end causes no re-rendering. Removing a central region of a clip does indeed force re-rendering, as would the expected things like color changes, sharpening, titling, etc. Is your experience different?

Larry
Larry Horwitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 21st, 2008, 07:18 AM   #108
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 45
Hi, Larry. I was doing more to the clip than you have stated. Mainly, I was cutting portions out and putting them in other areas. So, I guess this explains the re-render. Maybe this is also what's causing the blips in VSX2. If I simply trim and rearrange clips, maybe I won't get the blips/stutters. I have some test clips from VSX2 if you wouldn't mind taking a look at them. I have one clip created by Pixela that has no stutters and an almost exact replica created by VSX2 and it stutters at cuts. My email address is in my profile, so if you send me your email address, I think I can send 20mb files via my gmail account. Thanks for your help.
Peter Holzel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 21st, 2008, 10:03 AM   #109
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Eggertsville, NY
Posts: 528
Hi Pete,

I've sent you my email address. Please send me the clip(s). Gmail should be able to handle the attachment.
Larry
Larry Horwitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 22nd, 2008, 10:10 AM   #110
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 45
Hi Larry. I'm not up on all the file sharing sites, so I emailed the
two files to a new gmail account. Can you please login to that
account and retrieve them?

The url is: mail.google.com
The id is: sharing.file919
The pw is: sharing.file

There are two files. One is made with Pixela, and the other with
VSX2. You can see that the Pixela file does not stutter before/after
a cut and the VSX2 file does.

Thanks for your help.
Peter Holzel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 22nd, 2008, 06:38 PM   #111
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Eggertsville, NY
Posts: 528
Peter,

I have downloaded the files and confirmed the glitch you reported. It is quite possible that you have VideoStudio set for non AVCHD projects and thus a transcoding is required as the file is first converted from AVCHD into the VideoStudio project format and then once again transcoded as it is being output as AVCHD.

I have attached a screen shot showing you how the Project Properties need to be set, namely, the same as AVCHD from your camccorder. I can't tell you why Corel doesn't set this as a default or retain it once it has been set from one project to the next, since many people are now using AVCHD. Instead, it defaults to standard 720 by 480 DVD format.

The settings may be the reason for your problem but I am not entirely sure, as I am not an expert in this program.

I do not see the glitch you are experiencing on any edits I do here.

More info can be found at my post#9 at thread:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/avchd-for...tml#post945224


Let me know if I can help you further.

Best,

Larry
Attached Thumbnails
Burning AVCH Disks Please Help!!-peter.jpg  
Larry Horwitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 23rd, 2008, 08:07 PM   #112
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 45
Thanks for the advice, Larry. I tried a lot of different combinations, but was unable to fix the stutter problem. I wonder if it could be my computer. Can you give me your computer specs? I have and AMD 5400+ dual core, 7600GT video card, 2gb ram.
Peter Holzel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 23rd, 2008, 09:03 PM   #113
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Eggertsville, NY
Posts: 528
Peter,
Your hardware is most certainly marginal for AVCHD playback, and many people, myself included, recommend ONLY a quadcore for smooth AVCHD playback.

I had assumed, since you were apparently playing AVCHD from Canon's Pixeal, that your hardware was adequate for the task, but it may not be.

I do see the "glitch" in the VSX2 file you provided, but this does not appear to be stutter. Rather, it is a flaw in the way the clips were joined, either as a result of some transcoding error, or perhaps some other bug in VSX2 which I have not personally encountered. This glitch should not be dismissed as a stutter arising from marginal hardware, and it is entirely visible on my machine, which plays AVCHD with ease.

This still leaves us with no explanation as to what the problem is which you are experiencing.

I ask you to do 2 things:

1. Post a copy of your original .mts file from your Canon camcorder which can be a small, short clip, which I can edit here in VSX2. This should NOT come from Canon Pixela, which adds its own processing to the clip; rather, it should come directly off your camera's SD card, from the STREAM folder in the BDMV folder in the AVCHD folder. This is raw AVCHD. Note that this forum directly supports fairly large attachments to each post, and therefore you need not use gmail as an intermediary way to send things. I believe you can attach at least a 50MB attachment here, perhaps larger. The file attachment screen tells you the actual limit for such files.

2. Strongly consider posting your specific issue regarding this "glitch" on the Corel / Ulead support forum. There are a lot of people there who know much, much more than I do about VSX2. I am very glad to try to help you, but I am NOT your best and most knowledgable resource, merely somebody trying to help somebody else out.

I will, of course, continue to try to help, and will use your raw clip to see what results I get with it here.

Best,

Larry
Larry Horwitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 24th, 2008, 07:23 AM   #114
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 45
Hi, Larry. Oddly, my computer plays AVCHD fairly well through Windows Mediaplayer or PowerDVD. It's not at full frame rate, but it's close.

I have discussed this at the Corel/Ulead forum, but the consensus there is: this is a bug in VSX2 that EVERYONE is experiencing. That's why I was so surprised that you are not experiencing it.

I've attached the raw MTS file from my flash card. What I did to edit it is:
1) Trim a few seconds off the beginning and end of the clip.
2) Split the clip in half.
3) Move the second half to the beginning of the project and the first half to the end.
4) Smart render.

The forum is having trouble uploading the MTS file, I will try to get it to you some other way.

Last edited by Peter Holzel; November 24th, 2008 at 11:12 AM.
Peter Holzel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 24th, 2008, 09:38 AM   #115
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Eggertsville, NY
Posts: 528
Thanks for the update Peter. You can also use the gmail approach if this forum does not appear to allow you to send the clip.

The smooth playing of AVCHD on your machine is unusual. I am guessing you do not have full 1920 by 1080 resolution playback. AVCHD CAN be played on many lower power systems without problems if the frame rate is dropped, the resolution is lowered, or especially if both are true. Or perhaps your video card has full rez 1920 by 1080 HD acceleration, which some video cards provide. This allows lesser CPU capacity.

Regarding the splicing glitch, I just have not seen it but now will go over to the Ulead/Corel forum to find what others have had to say. This is a very major bug making VSX2 very unusable if it is affecting a large group of people, and I really have not seen it here for whatever reason.

I will wait to hear from you regarding the sample clip, but it now sounds like your camcorder video is not really the culprit.

Larry
Larry Horwitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 24th, 2008, 11:11 AM   #116
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 45
Larry, I emailed a similar file to the account mentioned previously. It's a bit shorter than the previous file so that it can fit in Google's size limitations. Thanks again for your help.

By the way, one of the contributors to the VS forum has already notified the company of the issue, and they claim to be researching it.

In doing some tests, I think I have found a fairly good solution. If I run the clip (uneditied) through Nero Vision, and smart render it, it turns the file into mt2s. Then, when I import that into VS and edit it, it appears that the blips do not occur on the edited/finished product. I am noticing a very slight degradation in quality, but maybe I can live with that. But, again, I do not understand why you are not having the same problem as me with the raw MTS files.
Peter Holzel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 24th, 2008, 12:19 PM   #117
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Eggertsville, NY
Posts: 528
Hi Peter,

I downloaded 00035.MTS and made an AVCHD with 2 duplicate clips separated by a fade. I do indeed see the same glitch / "blip" you and others report. It is very obvious.

I went back to look at the videos I made with the HF100 and VSX2 Pro and found that the camera was set for 30 progressive rather than 60 interlaced. These show no blip or glitch

I think you will discover that if you set your camera to record progressive frames that your problem will disappear. The video quality is superb.

This is indeed a bug in the software, but one that I had not excperienced until you brought it up.

I think this is a really solid workaround, but presume the Corel will ultimately fix the problem for those shooting 60i frames.

Hope this helps!

Best,


Larry
Larry Horwitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 24th, 2008, 03:10 PM   #118
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 45
Great deduction, Larry! I will double check by testing it, but I'm sure you're right. So, I guess the solution to the VSX2 stutter problem (at least for straight cuts - not sure if this solves stutters before and after transitions) is:

1) Record in 30P

or

2) Record in 60i, then smart render the raw file through Nero Vision, then edit in VSX2.
Peter Holzel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 24th, 2008, 03:20 PM   #119
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Eggertsville, NY
Posts: 528
Peter,

Hopefully Corel will fix this nasty bug soon but the workarounds are as you state. I want to clarify, for those who may read this thread, that "stutter" is really a different issue, and not a Corel-specific one. The problem we have been discussing is a stitching / splicing error specifically occuring at the joining of two files when some transitional effect is used between them, and people on the Corel / Ulead thread call it a "blip" and I have called it a "glitch". This is a brief and isolated event due to a programming error by Corel.

Stuttering is the jerky, unsmooth, delayed / interrupted playback of AVCHD arising (most often) from inadequate playback resources such as:

--too slow a processor

--an inadequately sized / improperly specificed playback buffer

--a poorly written codec for video, audio, or both

--improper muxing of the video and audio

--too little RAM

--bad display driver software

etc., etc., etc.....

Sorry for being long winded, but we are dealing with only a glitch or blip here (unless your computer is also stuttering for some reason such as the ones listed above).

Best,

Larry
Larry Horwitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 24th, 2008, 03:24 PM   #120
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Eggertsville, NY
Posts: 528
Also Peter,

I would appreciate it if you would report back here with your confirmation, after you have had a chance to go into the camer menu and change the frame rate to 30p and re-do your short experiment.

Thanks,

Larry
Larry Horwitz is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > High Definition Video Acquisition > AVCHD Format Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:21 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network