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AVCHD Format Discussion
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Old December 29th, 2008, 06:26 PM   #1
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Changing from HDV to AVCHD?

Hi all. I will be downloading a bunch of tapes from an FX7 and want to eventually use them in combination with footage from my SR11 to produce an AVCHD DVD and an SD DVD. I already believe that I can make the SD DVD, but am not sure about an AVCHD DVD.

So my question: Can I combine the clips from the FX7 (HDV) with clips from the SR11 (AVCHD) and produce an AVCHD final product to burn onto a regular DVD using either the latest version of Nero or Pinnacle 12?

Thanks.
Mike
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Old December 29th, 2008, 06:52 PM   #2
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Don't know Nero or Pinnacle, but with Vegas, it's just a matter of dropping both formats on the timeline, edit, choose output type to render to... I would expect most NLE's to be similar.
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Old December 29th, 2008, 09:09 PM   #3
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Yes Mike, both Nero and Pinnacle 12 will do what you want.

Just to confirm that both allow mixed HDV / AVCHD on their timelines, I took some clips from my HV20 and HF100 and created a Nero and Pinnacle AVCHD disk.

In the case of Nero, the AVCHD clips were smart rendered quickly and without any impact on image quality. HDV was re-rendered to 1920 by 1080.

In the case of Pinnacle, both AVCHD and HDV cklips were re-rendered to AVCHD.

In both cases, the resulting disk played the timeline without issues.

Hope this helps you.

Larry
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Old December 29th, 2008, 09:16 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Horwitz View Post
Yes Mike, both Nero and Pinnacle 12 will do what you want.

Just to confirm that both allow mixed HDV / AVCHD on their timelines, I took some clips from my HV20 and HF100 and created a Nero and Pinnacle AVCHD disk.

In the case of Nero, the AVCHD clips were smart rendered quickly and without any impact on image quality. HDV was re-rendered to 1920 by 1080.

In the case of Pinnacle, both AVCHD and HDV cklips were re-rendered to AVCHD.

In both cases, the resulting disk played the timeline without issues.

Hope this helps you.

Larry
Thanks Larry. How was the resulting PQ of the Nero rendered AVCHD compared to the rerendered HDV? And with Pinnacle, was there much difference in the final product compared to Nero?
Also as a side note.....I read on some other forum (I forget which one) that Nero has a problem corrupting computers (or something like that). Have you heard anything about that?

And thanks to Dave for responding also. I really appreciate those who take the time to answer my questions.

Repectfully,
Mike
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Old December 29th, 2008, 09:43 PM   #5
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Glad to help you (and others) Mike.

You probably know by now that I am a huge fan of smart rendering and dislike programs like Pinnacle which (stupidly) re-render everything whether it needs to or not. Even if it did not take a lot of extra time (which it most certainly does), I would oppose the re-rendering because it ALWAYS reduces the IQ. Compounding this in Pinnacle's case is a very acceptable but not great rendering capability, which, to my eyes, looks a notch or two below Nero's.

I could get into making some more cropped frames and comparing fine details to try and illustrate my point, but most people with most monitors would not throw the results away and call them unacceptable. Quite possibly they would only find the IQ diminished if they spent a lot of time making comparisons or had the original images to make a direct comparison to.

A simple way to deal with this would be to only do AVCHD content on AVCHD disks, and only use the mpeg2 BD5/9 method which Tom Roper has published on this forum with TSMuxer for HDV. In doing so, you always preserve the original content all the way to the playback decoder without making an intermediary re-render.

Of course, if you want to do filtering, transitions, titles, and all the things most people want to do, then the best approach is to use a very high quality NLE with a very good set of codecs and rendering engine, such as Vegas or TMPG Express, both of which which use the Mainconcept encoder.

Larry
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Old December 29th, 2008, 09:52 PM   #6
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Mike,

Regarding Nero corrupting computers, I know that this is an issue for some people.

For reasons beyond my comprehension, Nero really does a big installation compared to most other software I have owned and used, with reboots and installation of a lot of background software. It wants to act as a sort-of media master for your computer, and wants to take over file associations, reworks the ASPI and burner driver code, and add services including one which indexes the hard disks to build media directories.

In this specific area, I hate Nero. I have learned over several years and several versions how to clean it up, custom install it, turn off and delete services, etc. But it is among the worst offenders in terms of leaving a big footprint. On the bright side, I have found that it never has really "corrupted" anything. It just wants to do a lot more than I want it to. And it does NOT make it easy to disable portions which the user does not want.

Despite all of this, I still install and use it, recommend it, and find it to be an amazingly capable set of programs.

Larry
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Old December 29th, 2008, 11:15 PM   #7
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Hi Mike, Why not Try Edius Pro. It is a good NLE that handles different format.
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Old December 30th, 2008, 04:18 AM   #8
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Avchd can be converted to hdv[i do it with no loss]and any cam footage made into tape, dvd, avchd,or blu ray disc.
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Old December 30th, 2008, 07:37 AM   #9
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Again, my thanks to Larry. Your responses and time spent are always appreciated. I am encouraged to hear that both Nero and Pinnacle will do as I had hoped, with Nero producing the, as expected, better end results. As to using other more expensive NLEs or using a more complicated approach (at least in my mind) of using a series of different programs to achieve the hoped for better results, with my diminished capacity due to me being a retired junior high teacher (spelled a f-r-i-e-d mind), it is highly unlikely that I would do either. So with that in mind, I am accepting of such limitations presented with the likes of Nero. Although I am always on the lookout for programs, with improvements in capabilities and ease of use, that are affordable and which produce great results.

And to Jade and Martyn, I am always open to other possibilities. So thank you for your suggestions. As to whether converting to AVCHD from HDV, or going the other way, my reason for wanting to convert HDV to AVCHD is that I have no BR burner. It seems to me that with my current DVD burners, my only recourse for producing a high definition picture on a DVD is to go the AVCHD route. If I am mistaken, please enlighten me.

In one or two weeks, I will be attaining the HDV tapes and borrowing an FX7 from my friend, and downloading hours of footage. At that time I will begin producing an edited/finished AVCHD product using both HDV and AVCHD material. I will let you all know how it goes. There could very well be more questions; STAY TUNED.

Respectfully,
Mike
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Old December 30th, 2008, 08:58 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Burgess View Post
Again, my thanks to Larry. Your responses and time spent are always appreciated. I am encouraged to hear that both Nero and Pinnacle will do as I had hoped, with Nero producing the, as expected, better end results. As to using other more expensive NLEs or using a more complicated approach (at least in my mind) of using a series of different programs to achieve the hoped for better results, with my diminished capacity due to me being a retired junior high teacher (spelled a f-r-i-e-d mind), it is highly unlikely that I would do either. So with that in mind, I am accepting of such limitations presented with the likes of Nero. Although I am always on the lookout for programs, with improvements in capabilities and ease of use, that are affordable and which produce great results.

And to Jade and Martyn, I am always open to other possibilities. So thank you for your suggestions. As to whether converting to AVCHD from HDV, or going the other way, my reason for wanting to convert HDV to AVCHD is that I have no BR burner. It seems to me that with my current DVD burners, my only recourse for producing a high definition picture on a DVD is to go the AVCHD route. If I am mistaken, please enlighten me.

In one or two weeks, I will be attaining the HDV tapes and borrowing an FX7 from my friend, and downloading hours of footage. At that time I will begin producing an edited/finished AVCHD product using both HDV and AVCHD material. I will let you all know how it goes. There could very well be more questions; STAY TUNED.

Respectfully,
Mike
Mike in converting avchd to hdv there would be no problem as the hdv tape can be made into avchd discs as well on a dvd burner,i have never tried converting hdv footage to avchd as i find hdv easier to edit.
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Old December 30th, 2008, 01:46 PM   #11
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Martyn,

How do you convert AVCHD to HDV? What software do you use to do that?

I have given the trial version of AVCHD Upshift a go and it seems to convert .MTS files produced by the Canon HF100 to .M2T files but Pinnacle Studio 12 doesn't even see those.. Changing the extension of the converted files to .M2V or .M2TS results in "error opening file".
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Old December 31st, 2008, 07:27 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Bruce Foreman View Post
Martyn,

How do you convert AVCHD to HDV? What software do you use to do that?

I have given the trial version of AVCHD Upshift a go and it seems to convert .MTS files produced by the Canon HF100 to .M2T files but Pinnacle Studio 12 doesn't even see those.. Changing the extension of the converted files to .M2V or .M2TS results in "error opening file".
Pinnacle 12 ultimate,this can be a pain at times when editing but for rendering avchd to hdv it has never failed yet,you just choose which format to render the video to ie dvd, avchd ,bd, file, hdv.its a simple software to use.
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Old December 31st, 2008, 04:01 PM   #13
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Ah, a conundrum! Edit AVCHD in Studio 12 so I can render to HDV so I can edit it in Studio 12.

I have Studio 12 Ultimate. Reason I am looking into converting AVCHD to HDV is that my quad core is a tad under the specs Pinnacle states for 1920x1080. I can edit that format but in some cases apparently the CPU has a problem rendering things on both the primary video track and the second.

Instance: Cavalry patrol out in the wild of West Texas on track one. Cutaway of large hawk coasting on the wind on second track, needed to drastically slow that down for effect. The hardware and software can't seem to quite do it, now it may render out OK but freezes playing back on the timeline.

Same computer does super smooth on HDV.

I see what you say, Martyn and I really do appreciate your fast and right to the point reply. Despite the paradoxical appearance, I may try it that way. Convert clips one at a time and then see how the above works.
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Old January 1st, 2009, 01:56 AM   #14
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I had good experience with Vasst Upshift converting AVCHD from my HF100 to HDV. I have not used but have seen advertized another low cost AVCHD to HDV converter product from Elecard:

Elecard Group - Elecard Converter Studio AVC HD Edition - Converter Studio,AVC HD,HDV,batch file encoding,AVC/H.264,MPEG-4.10,MPEG-2

Also, TMPG Express 4 is another, very very good product to do this conversion.

Larry
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Old January 1st, 2009, 06:25 AM   #15
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I use Premiere Elelemnts 7 to convert AVCHD at 1920 x 1080 to HDV and either edit within PE7 or open the files in CS2. Easy...
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