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AVCHD Format Discussion
Inexpensive High Definition H.264 encoding to DVD, Hard Disc or SD Card.


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Old February 5th, 2009, 07:39 AM   #16
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Colin,

This is an impressive response by Stuart Miles and Pocket Lint. It's particularly refreshing to see direct and honest words and deeds.

Please reply back if you suceed in finding any Sanyo samples and I will do the same.

Larry
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Old February 12th, 2009, 10:20 PM   #17
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Colin, et al,

Engadget and Photoblog have a review of the new Sanyo HDC2000.

The summary is quite negative.

Larry

(With such fabulous and inexpensive small HD AVCHD camcorders from Canon and others, I suggest the Sanyo is not worth researching any further....)
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Old February 12th, 2009, 11:07 PM   #18
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Sanyo’s top new camcorders are much cheaper than the top new camcorders from Canon, Sony and Panasonic.

OK so maybe comparing it to the UK price of the TG3 makes it sound expensive but then again, that is the retail price and in the US, the HD2000’s price is a steal. Never mind the fact that the chip is much bigger and that it comes with a docking station that you can hook up directly to a hard drive.
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Old February 13th, 2009, 05:44 AM   #19
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The vastly superior Canon Hf100 is offered here in the U.S for $500. The Sanyo is priced at 549 pounds, and is not yet available at a discount in the U.S. Canon consistently offers much better cameras than Sanyo and this specific Sanyo makes the HF100 a far better choice in my view.



Larry

Last edited by Larry Horwitz; February 13th, 2009 at 07:12 AM.
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Old February 13th, 2009, 10:07 AM   #20
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Thanks Larry,
I've seen the reviews. Not a shining recommendation at all. I was able to look at some photos and there's even a video clip:

http://img.photographyblog.com/revie..._hd2000_01.mp4

I'm not totally discouraged, but I am looking at other possibilities

Colin
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Old February 13th, 2009, 10:59 AM   #21
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my oh my . . . avchd or not?

Having spent a fair amount of time reading and re-reading comments in this thread, I must say I am significantly down the technical ladder from most. I currently have a Sony HCR SR8 hard drive HD camcorder. I have traveled with my grandchildren every year for many and I have always edited our SD trip video creating a fully menued DVD for each of them and others in the family who wish copies. I have decided this past few months to shoot everything in HD this year. I gave each of my grandchildren BluRay player for Christmas to prepare them for this next generation of DVD's, which they clamour for each year. For the opportunity to "live the process" I shot about 16 gig of video over the holiday season just past. I tried to edit this footage with the program I use (and have been using for several years thru its earlier iterations from Ulead) which is Corel Video Studio Pro X2. I first brought the clips into the computer and analyzed them using Sony's Picture Motion Browser. I realized early on that my computer is under powered for editing such huge files or even playing them - which Studio X2 won't. So, as I decide on whether or not to upgrade my computer hardware, I have a few questions with which I am hoping you knowledgable folks can help.
1. If I install my editing software on a Solid State Drive (which is touted as the "nearly instant access" drive) will my editing process from start to finish be quicker?
2. If I install a video card(e.g. ATI 4870 1 gig or Nvidia GTX) will this matter in editing, review and/or rendering the final product speed?
3. How much Ram should I have to be most effective - is 12 gig overkill . . is 6 gig enough?
4. What editing program do you folks believe makes sense for my purposes?
. . .and, finally . . .
5. If I decide NOT to get bigger better hardware, can I convert these avchd (mt2s) file to something I can edit as SD?

Thanks,
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Old February 13th, 2009, 10:47 PM   #22
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AVCHD tends to be a "beast" that requires a lot of computer horsepower. Generally you will be best off with the fastest quad core processor based computer you can make yourself afford. Not only for what is happening now but for a bit of "futureproofing" against the next generation of cameras coming along.

Faster drive access, more RAM, and a "stout" video card never hurt but the main culprit is almost always a processor that cannot handle the degree of compression and decompression AVCHD can use. Most of the NLE's are trying to "come to the AVCHD table" but many of the "big boys" dragged their feet and some implementations are a bit "lame".

Reports have Sony Vegas Pro 8 doing a not bad job, sometimes even with a dual core processor, Pinnacle Studio 12 does a very good overall job but will require a quad core running at 2.66GHz minimum for the 1920x1080 17Mbps and higher bitrates, and Cyberlink PowerDirector 7 Ultra is a bit less demanding of computer resources. You kind of have to download trial versions to see what is going to work on your machine.

I edit 1920x1080 17Mbps AVCHD on a Dell with quad core Q6600 running at 2.4Ghz (a bit under spec for Pinnacle Studio 12) and while it is some slow to do what I want it does handle it, in Cyberlink PD7 Ultra it goes a bit easier and quicker but I still prefer the features of Pinnacle Studio and do most of my editing there for now.

Changing from an ATI Radeon HD 2400 256MB graphics card (came in my computer) to an Nvidia GeForce 8800GT 512MB card did a lot to help my machine (I think the extra memory on the graphics card is what helped).

I can render (output) to standard DVD, Blu-ray compliant format on standard DVD (I have no Blu-ray burner), and several HD file formats which I can play on my TV using a small hardware HD capable media player. If I had a Blu-ray burner, both NLE packages would author and burn Blu-ray disks on Blu-ray media.

But right now I play my HD content from thumb drives plugged into the media player connected to my 42" LCD TV with HDMI cable and it looks great.

Hope you find this info useful.
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Old February 14th, 2009, 01:04 AM   #23
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Does Vegas 7 work with avdhd m2ts?

I can't get my tried and true Vegas 6 to read m2ts from my new Sony HDR SR10, same with MPEG StreamClip. Vegas movie studio 9 sees them in the folder, but errors when I try to import them. Serious Magic Ultra won't read them either. HuffyUV codec worked great with my Sony HDR-HC1 files... Are their codecs I can get to make these programs work?

I have adobe cs3 suite coming next week, with Premiere. Will that edit m2ts? Codecs?

Or do I need to fork out $500 for Vegas 8 and codecs?

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Old February 14th, 2009, 04:36 AM   #24
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Even Low-Cost Editing Programs Can Handle AVCHD

It was mentioned earlier, but I'll say it again. If your computer is up to the level needed, even some inexpensive editing programs can work with AVCHD. I recently bought the whole ensemble (about a dozen) of AVS video programs, for only $59.(U.S.). Its video editor will accept AVCHD as source material, as well as many other HD formats. I have a quad-core 2.2 GHz H-P computer with 3 GB RAM, so I have an advantage, even though it was also fairly low-priced at $850. I've been having a good time, easily and relatively quickly re-editing and publishing my HDV footage in H.264 and other types of MPEG-4. I now have the option of getting an AVCHD camcorder and spending no more money on anything that is editing-related. I'm pleased by how much better my H-264 editions convert to Vimeo's heavy compression, than when I uploaded them as .wmv files. The motion artifacts on Vimeo's player are mostly gone, with H.264 uploads, from this very low-cost editing program.
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Old February 14th, 2009, 08:54 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bigg View Post
Having spent a fair amount of time reading and re-reading comments in this thread, I must say I am significantly down the technical ladder from most. I currently have a Sony HCR SR8 hard drive HD camcorder. I have traveled with my grandchildren every year for many and I have always edited our SD trip video creating a fully menued DVD for each of them and others in the family who wish copies. I have decided this past few months to shoot everything in HD this year. I gave each of my grandchildren BluRay player for Christmas to prepare them for this next generation of DVD's, which they clamour for each year. For the opportunity to "live the process" I shot about 16 gig of video over the holiday season just past. I tried to edit this footage with the program I use (and have been using for several years thru its earlier iterations from Ulead) which is Corel Video Studio Pro X2. I first brought the clips into the computer and analyzed them using Sony's Picture Motion Browser. I realized early on that my computer is under powered for editing such huge files or even playing them - which Studio X2 won't. So, as I decide on whether or not to upgrade my computer hardware, I have a few questions with which I am hoping you knowledgable folks can help.
1. If I install my editing software on a Solid State Drive (which is touted as the "nearly instant access" drive) will my editing process from start to finish be quicker?
2. If I install a video card(e.g. ATI 4870 1 gig or Nvidia GTX) will this matter in editing, review and/or rendering the final product speed?
3. How much Ram should I have to be most effective - is 12 gig overkill . . is 6 gig enough?
4. What editing program do you folks believe makes sense for my purposes?
. . .and, finally . . .
5. If I decide NOT to get bigger better hardware, can I convert these avchd (mt2s) file to something I can edit as SD?

Thanks,
Jim,

I too am a grandfather, avid photographer and videographer, and make tons of videos for family sharing and use over many years. Here is my thinking on your questions, using the numbering you provided:

1. A solid state drive will improve performance but the true bottleneck is not disk transfer speed. The editing of video mostly demands a very fast CPU, and this is where the payoff in making a purchase will truly benefit you.

2. Some editing software uses the video card to substantially accelerate certain video editing work, but only specific software and specific video cards will work together. I use and recommend the CUDA technology from nVidia on the 8800 family GeForce card with such programs as Cyberlink Power Director 7 Ultimate, TMPG Express 4, and CoreAVC to achieve these speedups, which can offer a 2X to 3X improvement.

3. Windows 32 bit software, including Vista, XP, and Windows 7 can only see and use 4 GB of RAM and actually use a bit less than that. Any additional RAM will not benefit you. Using a 64bit version of Windows will create incompatibilities with many if not most video editing software programs and codecs and I would not suggest it quite yet.

4. To edit HD content and make disks in HD for your family to watch on their BluRay players, you will need a faster computer, in the $800 range or above, to do smooth editing and disk authoring. You will then be able to produce excellent quality HD disks which play directly on the BluRay player. This specific editing program to be used needs to be discussed with you after better understanding your level of interest in editing, the eventual hardware you are prepared to buy, the time you are prepared to invest, if any, in learning a new program, etc. There are 8 NLE choices which need to be culled down to a single choice with your guidance.

5. Although you can downconvert your AVCHD files into another format like HDV using a program like Vasst Upshift, your future movie making would be better served by recording in SD on your camcorder and authoring as you did previously, if you chose not to upgrade your computer. It makes very little sense to capture in HD, convert it with software to an SD format, and then author as SD. If you are prepared to upgrade your computer, then authoring in native AVCHD makes the most sense in my view, and you need to spend the $800 in order to do so.

If your budget is very limited and you have a lot of time to spend (waste) in converting / rendering / etc., you could convert your AVCHD to HDV, another HD format, author it using your existing hardware and Corel software, and then produce an HD disk using Corel Video Studio. This is by far the least expensive route, since the Vasst software is very inexpensive. I don't especially like this approach since it loses quality and takes a lot of time, but it should work if you are prepared to wait for things to process and want to keep your expense to a minumum.

Hope I have answered each of your questions directly Jim.

Larry
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Old February 14th, 2009, 09:35 AM   #26
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Jim, I too am a grandfather with two grandsons and my daughter now has my SR7 when I upgraded to the SR11. I also have an FX1 too. As an example my PC is a quad core Q9450, 8 G RAM, 250G boot, 250G temp, two 750G video storage for editing an several external hard drives. I run Vista 64 with no problems running Edius 5, Vegas 8, CS3, TMPGenc Xpress and Authorworks 4, Sound Forge 9 and many others. In fact I have had no problems running any of the programs I have loaded. The issue with Vista 64 is drivers for the hardware more than programs that run in 32bit mode anyway.
If you have a HD camera shoot in HD. Video especially of family is for the future and expecially as you have given them Bluray players stay HD. Don't let the present difficulties reduce the future use. Vegas 8( and I assume Platinum too) has no issues with editing AVCHD and the time it takes is purely dependent on the power of your PC. IF you are not into fancy effects or colour corrections then as Larry has said there are several programs that smart render to create a final AVCHD version though if you are only doing cuts editing it may be easier to do it in the camera and create a playlist for output in either HD via HDMI or to SD through the composite outputs. learning how to do this is also useful to show people events etc directly from the camera.
As far as converting to an intermediary file I would look at Neo Scene from Cineform that will ease the load on the PC but with bigger file sizes and stay in full HD. I use Edius which has an intermediary format called Canopus HQ also resulting in larger file sizes but an easier load on the CPU for editing, again staying in HD. Editing will be done in HD and then there is the choice of output format to taste!!!

Ron Evans
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Old February 14th, 2009, 10:56 AM   #27
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Hope everyone comes back soon

Happy Valentine's Day to all !
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Old February 14th, 2009, 11:09 AM   #28
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Wow! and thanks . .

I just took another look and realized there was another page to the thread. I want to thank you all for your thoughtful and most appreciated responses. As soon as I return this afternoon, I will review again and respond.

By the way, I intend to buy new hardware including quad, vista 64 bit, etc. Perhaps I can respond with more detail to your queries. More later . .
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Old February 15th, 2009, 10:38 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Lewis View Post
I can't get my tried and true Vegas 6 to read m2ts from my new Sony HDR SR10, same with MPEG StreamClip. Vegas movie studio 9 sees them in the folder, but errors when I try to import them. Serious Magic Ultra won't read them either. HuffyUV codec worked great with my Sony HDR-HC1 files... Are their codecs I can get to make these programs work?

I have adobe cs3 suite coming next week, with Premiere. Will that edit m2ts? Codecs?

Or do I need to fork out $500 for Vegas 8 and codecs?

E6600 xp sp2, 4g ram, gt8800 512mb,
If you can live without the DVD Architect program, you can have Sony Vegas Pro 8 at B&H Photo & Video for far cheaper than $500, I think it's less than $200 there..

Vegas 8 works directly with AVCHD 'ok' however transcoding into Cineform is the way to go in my opinion.

Jon
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Old February 15th, 2009, 01:58 PM   #30
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Neo Scene - Cineform

Ron & Jon,

Do you consider for my purposes - (vacation and family event HD video (avchd) from my current Sony SR8 edited and then burned to Blueray) - the use of Neo Scene as a permanent solution. Would its use obviate the necessity of a more powerful computing platform or does the avi file size associated with this software make upgrading to quad core 3.2 i-7 processor, etc. a proper move for now?

Can I use Corel Video Studio Pro X2 or should I step up to something more sophisticated? I am probably ready to do so, but I hesitate to take on something that is significantly more labor intensive than x2.

Can I save the product of my editing and menuing for my burn to an ISO file for future copies as I have done with SD work?

One question leads toi another it seems. Your thoughts?

Jim
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