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AVCHD Format Discussion
Inexpensive High Definition H.264 encoding to DVD, Hard Disc or SD Card.


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Old May 7th, 2009, 07:25 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Robert Young View Post
I'm not that familiar with the GV and Apple products, but it wouldn't surprise me to see them offering an affordable solution as well.
Canopus HQ is included in the price.
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Old May 7th, 2009, 09:05 AM   #17
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.......Take a closer look at the marketplace- I think Cineform has an inexpensive version of their product now (NeoScene??) that works with a number of NLEs.....
Yep, NeoScene $100, plus Vegas movie studio platinum $85. Pretty nice and affordable combination.
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Old May 7th, 2009, 09:35 AM   #18
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Thanks to all who have thus far responded. As for using multiple programs (Cineform, etc.) I am clueless. How does one use, for instance, Neoscene, with Nero or whatever? Or don't you do it that way? Please explain.

Thanks.
Mike

PS Larry, I appreciate all your help now and in the past. I am bummed that there is not one "entry" package that has all its "stuff" together.
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Old May 7th, 2009, 10:10 AM   #19
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Cineform Neoscene

Basically you convert your footage to the neoscene codec and work with that.
But read this
"NLE Compatibility:
- Windows: Adobe Elements, Adobe CS3/CS4; Sony Vegas or Movie Studio
- Mac: Apple Final Cut Pro or iMovie
File Compatibility: Because CineForm files use industry-standard AVI or MOV wrappers they are compatible with virtually any video application that supports standard interfaces, including from Adobe, Apple, Microsoft, and Sony. "

You seem resistant to Edius, may I ask why?
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Old May 7th, 2009, 10:16 AM   #20
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You import/download the raw AVCHD video files from your camcorder to your computer hard drive.

You can then edit those raw files directly in your editing software program such as Vegas.

If you choose, using Cineform NeoScene software, you convert the raw AVCHD files to AVI files for editing purposes. The converted files sit on your hard drive, the original files are also still on your hard drive. Then in Vegas, you edit the AVI files instead of the raw AVCHD files.

Robert Young's post explained some of the benefits of editing AVI files instead of raw AVCHD files.
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Old May 7th, 2009, 10:39 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Bryan Sellars View Post
Thanks Dale I will give it a go using "Same as First Video Clip" I always thought it was just like using smart render so will see how I go with it, I have just received a reply from Corel on the problems I have been having with glitches at the edit point and if there was a fix to enable a higher bitrate, this is what they have said ("As of the moment there is no patch to address this issue. I will send this to the Video Studio team in case they are not aware of this problem") they do however have a patch that is supposed to give better playback of AVCHD as well as fix other problems, the patch is VSX2PROPATCH.exe so will try it out tomorrow.
I was only trying out Premiere Elements 7 but don't think I will bother buying it, it's like most of the programs I have tried it seems to have it's own set of problems, and given equal bitrates Corel Pro X2 does just as well as the Professional programs out there if only they would up the bitrate there would be very little to beat it, I've always used Premiere starting with 4.2 and later 6.5, and was rather reluctant to look at other programs, so was pleasantly surprised at the ability of Corel VS Pro X2, especially considering the price.

Bryan
Bryan, if you haven't done it yet, you might also want to update Microsoft's DirectX Runtime to the latest version. Experienced users on the Corel forum recommend keeping DirectX up to date and they say it can correct some video editing problems (although I doubt it has anything to do with the bit rate issue).

I hope the "Same As First Clip" works for you. Here is a link to Microsoft's latest DirectX Runtime update (March 2009).

Download details: DirectX Redist (March 2009)
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Old May 7th, 2009, 07:04 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Tejral View Post
Cineform Neoscene

Basically you convert your footage to the neoscene codec and work with that.
But read this
"NLE Compatibility:
- Windows: Adobe Elements, Adobe CS3/CS4; Sony Vegas or Movie Studio
- Mac: Apple Final Cut Pro or iMovie
File Compatibility: Because CineForm files use industry-standard AVI or MOV wrappers they are compatible with virtually any video application that supports standard interfaces, including from Adobe, Apple, Microsoft, and Sony. "

You seem resistant to Edius, may I ask why?
Well, it may be because I know nothing about Edius. I don't even think I knew Edius existed. What is it?

Mike
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Old May 7th, 2009, 07:06 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Ron Chau View Post
You import/download the raw AVCHD video files from your camcorder to your computer hard drive.

You can then edit those raw files directly in your editing software program such as Vegas.

If you choose, using Cineform NeoScene software, you convert the raw AVCHD files to AVI files for editing purposes. The converted files sit on your hard drive, the original files are also still on your hard drive. Then in Vegas, you edit the AVI files instead of the raw AVCHD files.

Robert Young's post explained some of the benefits of editing AVI files instead of raw AVCHD files.
So it sounds like then I would have two versions of the same video files (in different forms) on my hard drive. Tell me again what the advantages would be. How would it solve the shortcomings of, say, Nero, with its lack of a full complement of tools?

My computer does a decent job with these editing programs and editing AVCHD. So it is not that I am having problems in that area, instead, I am disappointed in these programs and the fact that they all can't offer a more complete suite of tools while doing away with rerendering of the video.

I guess I just don't understand how using Edius or Cineform Neoscene would help. Sorry for my lack.

Mike
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Old May 7th, 2009, 08:29 PM   #24
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Well, it may be because I know nothing about Edius. I don't even think I knew Edius existed. What is it?

Mike

There's this thing called 'google'...
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Old May 7th, 2009, 08:39 PM   #25
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Well, it may be because I know nothing about Edius. I don't even think I knew Edius existed. What is it?

Mike
Look on their site NLE Software
it has the fastest processing of all the NLE's and the best multicam too. Edius Neo is the entry level and Edius PRo5.1 is the Pro version. You can see the differences between the versions on the Grass Valley site as well as an explanation of HQ intermediate file ( Cineform is used in the same way and for the same reasons). Edius Neo would be a good thing for you to try as it has all the capabilities I think you need though just like all the others it will re-render.
I use Edius Pro as my main editor as well as Vegas Pro8. Once you have moved to this level of NLE's you will not use the simpler one's again.
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Old May 7th, 2009, 08:54 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Andy Tejral View Post
There's this thing called 'google'...
Oh yeah, showing my ignorance....once again.
Google; Why didn't I think of that.
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Old May 7th, 2009, 08:55 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Ron Evans View Post
Look on their site NLE Software
it has the fastest processing of all the NLE's and the best multicam too. Edius Neo is the entry level and Edius PRo5.1 is the Pro version. You can see the differences between the versions on the Grass Valley site as well as an explanation of HQ intermediate file ( Cineform is used in the same way and for the same reasons). Edius Neo would be a good thing for you to try as it has all the capabilities I think you need though just like all the others it will re-render.
I use Edius Pro as my main editor as well as Vegas Pro8. Once you have moved to this level of NLE's you will not use the simpler one's again.
Ron Evans
Thanks Ron. I think I will check into this.
Mike
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Old May 7th, 2009, 09:59 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Mike Burgess View Post
PS Larry, I appreciate all your help now and in the past. I am bummed that there is not one "entry" package that has all its "stuff" together.
One of the biggest complaints I see is that AVCHD edited and saved/burned as AVCHD on disk does not match the "pristine" quality of the original AVCHD clip. If what you are comparing to is the way the AVCHD clip looks played on the camcorder connected to an HD TV with HDMI cable...

...Nothing is going to turn out like that as an end result in almost all cases. That is the best quality you are going to see.

So we have to deal with a realistic end result. I tried making an AVCHD disk once and played it back at Best Buy on one of their display 42" LCD 1080p TV's and Sony Blu-ray players. The salesman's comment, "Not too shabby". But to me, OK, better than anything I'd tried to date but room for improvement.

With the advent of inexpensive media players I'm finding editing in AVCHD (in Pinnacle Studio 12) and rendering to an HD WMV file is a different story. To me it looks better than any AVCHD disk I've seen, and comes somewhat closer to what I see playing files from my camcorder over HDMI. I copy these files over to a thumb drive and simply plug that into one of the USB 2.0 inputs on the media player. 8 and 16GB thumb drives have plenty of space for several short productions on each one.

I also just got in a Core i7 processor based computer and look for that to lift me out of the slow AVCHD editing doldrums.
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Old May 7th, 2009, 10:22 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Evans View Post
Look on their site NLE Software
it has the fastest processing of all the NLE's and the best multicam too. Edius Neo is the entry level and Edius PRo5.1 is the Pro version. You can see the differences between the versions on the Grass Valley site as well as an explanation of HQ intermediate file ( Cineform is used in the same way and for the same reasons). Edius Neo would be a good thing for you to try as it has all the capabilities I think you need though just like all the others it will re-render.
I use Edius Pro as my main editor as well as Vegas Pro8. Once you have moved to this level of NLE's you will not use the simpler one's again.
Ron Evans

I agree with Ron. You have to move to a different NLE. I am not saying that what you are using is bad. But if it does not give you what you want or are not happy with it, maybe its time to try something different. That's what I did with my move away from Pinnacle (v9). I loved the software but it was too limited and buggy, and the renders were not as good. It took a while to get used to Vegas, but now I am happy with it.

Again, you really have to go the transcoding route if you really want to get the best quality. As been said before, there are options (neoscene, edius, etc). You have to take a hit somewhere though. The transcoding will delay your editing a bit depending on your cpu power. There is also the need for more storage, though for me, that is not such a bad thing to get larger drives.

In the end, 1) you can insist using your current NLE but learn to live with its limitations, or 2) you can check out other NLEs, or 3) go the transcoding route. But as of this time, nothing is free or all-in-one without some trade-offs. These are basically the 3 choices available to you.
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Old May 8th, 2009, 01:03 PM   #30
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Thanks Guys.

As for rerendering, from what I have learned only Nero9 and Corel Pro X2 (of the entry level programs) do not do this with the video. Each of these programs have their seperate issues. So as Mel has pointed out, you have those three choices he listed. Not very encouraging.

Mike
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