Canon HF-S10 vs Sony XR500

Tom Gull · February 4th, 2010, 09:27 PM

I have the Sony VCL-HG0737C WA converter (37mm, HD for the Sony). It's actually fairly light. I took it to Disney World two weeks ago. The only sample I have of video taken with it is a fireworks clip from Epcot on YouTube:

YouTube - Epcot Illuminations Fireworks filmed in HD wide angle 20 Jan 2010 (vs most clips filmed without WA)

I doubt that the subject gives much chance to see any of the details or lack of same for sharpness at the edges of the WA. But the clip overall does show how the CX500V does in fireworks mode. This was all handheld, by the way. I see some clips viewed well up into the 30,000s that I think look much worse in terms of equipment performance...

Anyway, the C lens seems like it might be a good compromise between quality and weight/size from what Dave said.

Speaking of CX performance, I filmed the "Festival of the Lion King" with a CX12 in 2008 and the CX500V last month. The difference in the low light performance is astonishingly in favor of the CX500V. I didn't expect that since my memory was that the CX12 clips were pretty good. I guess my standards have changed now.

Dave Blackhurst · February 4th, 2010, 10:55 PM

The "C" variant of the 0737 is pretty light and seems a bit better than the earlier "X" and no suffix versions of the HG lenses (don't ask me why X and Y came before "C"...). The current HGA07 is even a bit smaller and supposedly lighter, but haven't seen one in person, likely won't with the CX550V coming out... I've seen it for around $140 US on eBay. While the Y is great, it's not a good match for the petite CX cams! And I suspect with the upcoming CX550V I won't need WA lens add-ons at all (but if my calculation is correct, the .7 will give me around an 18mm!!).

I've also filmed the same play for the last 3 years with my kids... the XR500 is CLEARLY the best image over the SR11, and 7 series cameras (HC7/9, CX7). Much less noise, and far better lattitude and detail, very little if any need to tweak in post to get a nice overall look. 4 camera multicam edits nicely on the new i7 machine, all non-transcoded AVCHD.

I am still surprised by the CX vs. the XR, there's definitely an extra stop or two of usable low light (and I'm finding more noise on in dark areas), but I'm beginning to suspect the color differences are due to the different LCD's in the two cams - the CX having a more vibrant display... may have to do a side by side shoot to see...

Milutin Labudovic · February 8th, 2010, 05:24 PM

my sony had plummeted me to desperation when i saw that the image stabilizer is not helpful at all on zoom, and in full zoom...total shaking, like no IS.
but there is a bug in the program, while there is a wide or tele lens convertor on in conversion lens menu, the IS is almost not working. i was shaking for several days thinking that my lemon is as yellow as the sun, but it is just a bug. so it maybe my cam only, i don`t know. but OIS stop to work when ANY conversion lens is turned on in the sony menu. when OFF, the OIS works like a charm

@ Dave -
i am learning the touch focus, since AF is TOTALLY useless in my cam. pity. PMB had that menu you mention just once, like some previous version. but on my menu there is not such thing to choose. is it the same?

Russell Bailey · February 8th, 2010, 06:20 PM

I have the VCL-HGA07 xo.7x lens and i was unaware of any converter setting that needs to be changed in the menu?

mine will shake on over zoom and more so on full over zoom but i can still get it's fairly steady on tripod zoom.

it must be a bug? here is a recent example of me zooming in/out and you can see some shaking but thats my shaking hands as i hild the cam out the window of the car. You can definitely see the anti shake working overtime for me :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UynaT5hP928
russ

Dave Blackhurst · February 8th, 2010, 06:25 PM

NO IS will be effective once you zoom in past a certain point, but the OIS in this cam is fairly good for a significant part of the range.

PMB -You might try clicking the "change" button? I've got a later version of PMB, and the interface has changed, definitely has the delete files from camera option... not sure which version that first was available, and it may not be in your version... but could be buried somewhere in a submenu too.

Ron Evans · February 8th, 2010, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst

I've also filmed the same play for the last 3 years with my kids... the XR500 is CLEARLY the best image over the SR11, and 7 series cameras (HC7/9, CX7). Much less noise, and far better lattitude and detail, very little if any need to tweak in post to get a nice overall look. 4 camera multicam edits nicely on the new i7 machine, all non-transcoded AVCHD.

I agree about the changes since the SR7. I to have been through the SR7 ( which my daughter now has) and still have the SR11 and XR500. With the SR7 my FX1 was definitely better, the SR11 started to challenge the FX1 and the XR500 is better a lot of the time. I miss the zebra from the SR11 on the XR500 but it is able to do a good job left on AE shift a lot of the time. I use spot focus all the time a great feature and its sad that Sony have not used this feature on the new NX5 or AX2000 one of which will replace my FX1 soon!!!

Ron Evans

Dave Blackhurst · February 8th, 2010, 10:08 PM

Yep - touch screen is pretty cool, speaking of which I notice the TX7 is in stock and shipping - a bit more than the HX5 and not quite as versatile, but I know I love the touch screen of the TX1, which is "upgraded" by the TX7 FWIW.

I know the TX1 isn't as good in low light as say the XR500 or the CX500 (which is even better in low lux mode, if a tad noisy), but if the TX7 is as good as the TX1 (should be the same sensor), it's a heckuva lot of camera in a small package! And it has spot focus <wink>!

Ron Evans · February 9th, 2010, 07:19 AM

I think I will still wait for the HX5. My needs are for a small, do most things, camera for my ski trips and general "in my pocket camera". The HX5 I think is a better fit with more zoom, Active Steady Shot, Semi-manual focus, continuous focus even for stills, GPS etc. It's also $50, less enough for a big SD card!!!!

Ron Evans

February 8th, 2010, 05:24 PM	#138
Milutin Labudovic Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 38	my sony had plummeted me to desperation when i saw that the image stabilizer is not helpful at all on zoom, and in full zoom...total shaking, like no IS. but there is a bug in the program, while there is a wide or tele lens convertor on in conversion lens menu, the IS is almost not working. i was shaking for several days thinking that my lemon is as yellow as the sun, but it is just a bug. so it maybe my cam only, i don`t know. but OIS stop to work when ANY conversion lens is turned on in the sony menu. when OFF, the OIS works like a charm @ Dave - i am learning the touch focus, since AF is TOTALLY useless in my cam. pity. PMB had that menu you mention just once, like some previous version. but on my menu there is not such thing to choose. is it the same? Attached Thumbnails __________________ - Picture The Pollution - EarthIsSmall.com

February 4th, 2010, 09:27 PM	#136
Tom Gull Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Rockville, Maryland Posts: 142	I have the Sony VCL-HG0737C WA converter (37mm, HD for the Sony). It's actually fairly light. I took it to Disney World two weeks ago. The only sample I have of video taken with it is a fireworks clip from Epcot on YouTube: YouTube - Epcot Illuminations Fireworks filmed in HD wide angle 20 Jan 2010 (vs most clips filmed without WA) I doubt that the subject gives much chance to see any of the details or lack of same for sharpness at the edges of the WA. But the clip overall does show how the CX500V does in fireworks mode. This was all handheld, by the way. I see some clips viewed well up into the 30,000s that I think look much worse in terms of equipment performance... Anyway, the C lens seems like it might be a good compromise between quality and weight/size from what Dave said. Speaking of CX performance, I filmed the "Festival of the Lion King" with a CX12 in 2008 and the CX500V last month. The difference in the low light performance is astonishingly in favor of the CX500V. I didn't expect that since my memory was that the CX12 clips were pretty good. I guess my standards have changed now.

February 4th, 2010, 10:55 PM	#137
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	The "C" variant of the 0737 is pretty light and seems a bit better than the earlier "X" and no suffix versions of the HG lenses (don't ask me why X and Y came before "C"...). The current HGA07 is even a bit smaller and supposedly lighter, but haven't seen one in person, likely won't with the CX550V coming out... I've seen it for around $140 US on eBay. While the Y is great, it's not a good match for the petite CX cams! And I suspect with the upcoming CX550V I won't need WA lens add-ons at all (but if my calculation is correct, the .7 will give me around an 18mm!!). I've also filmed the same play for the last 3 years with my kids... the XR500 is CLEARLY the best image over the SR11, and 7 series cameras (HC7/9, CX7). Much less noise, and far better lattitude and detail, very little if any need to tweak in post to get a nice overall look. 4 camera multicam edits nicely on the new i7 machine, all non-transcoded AVCHD. I am still surprised by the CX vs. the XR, there's definitely an extra stop or two of usable low light (and I'm finding more noise on in dark areas), but I'm beginning to suspect the color differences are due to the different LCD's in the two cams - the CX having a more vibrant display... may have to do a side by side shoot to see...

February 8th, 2010, 06:20 PM	#139
Russell Bailey Regular Crew Join Date: May 2009 Location: Australia Brisbane Posts: 37	I have the VCL-HGA07 xo.7x lens and i was unaware of any converter setting that needs to be changed in the menu? mine will shake on over zoom and more so on full over zoom but i can still get it's fairly steady on tripod zoom. it must be a bug? here is a recent example of me zooming in/out and you can see some shaking but thats my shaking hands as i hild the cam out the window of the car. You can definitely see the anti shake working overtime for me :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UynaT5hP928 russ

February 8th, 2010, 06:25 PM	#140
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	NO IS will be effective once you zoom in past a certain point, but the OIS in this cam is fairly good for a significant part of the range. PMB -You might try clicking the "change" button? I've got a later version of PMB, and the interface has changed, definitely has the delete files from camera option... not sure which version that first was available, and it may not be in your version... but could be buried somewhere in a submenu too.

February 8th, 2010, 10:08 PM	#142
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Yep - touch screen is pretty cool, speaking of which I notice the TX7 is in stock and shipping - a bit more than the HX5 and not quite as versatile, but I know I love the touch screen of the TX1, which is "upgraded" by the TX7 FWIW. I know the TX1 isn't as good in low light as say the XR500 or the CX500 (which is even better in low lux mode, if a tad noisy), but if the TX7 is as good as the TX1 (should be the same sensor), it's a heckuva lot of camera in a small package! And it has spot focus <wink>!

February 9th, 2010, 07:19 AM	#143
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	I think I will still wait for the HX5. My needs are for a small, do most things, camera for my ski trips and general "in my pocket camera". The HX5 I think is a better fit with more zoom, Active Steady Shot, Semi-manual focus, continuous focus even for stills, GPS etc. It's also $50, less enough for a big SD card!!!! Ron Evans