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AVCHD Format Discussion
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Old June 10th, 2009, 10:09 PM   #16
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I don't use the multicam in Vegas as Edius is so much better at multicam though it will not use AVCHD native at all. So for me its Vegas for single track and Edius for multitrack but with AVCHD converted to Canopus HQ. I then go back to Vegas for final audio and to render for Bluray authored with DVD Architect.

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Old June 10th, 2009, 10:39 PM   #17
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Hi Ron, Just curious, if you use Edius for your multicam work, why do you use Vegas for single cam?
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Old June 12th, 2009, 08:46 PM   #18
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I don't use the multicam in Vegas as Edius is so much better at multicam though it will not use AVCHD native at all. So for me its Vegas for single track and Edius for multitrack but with AVCHD converted to Canopus HQ. I then go back to Vegas for final audio and to render for Bluray authored with DVD Architect.

Ron Evans
Hi Ron. I am still worrying through the whole issue of whether I want to edit AVCHD (from my SR11) at all because of the need to upgrade my current computer and because the whole matter of NLE editing of AVCHD footage seems unusally complex in support of a hobbyist level of video activity. One thing I still dont get (among many others) is how you go from the edited transcoded footage to rendering the AVCHD original footage. What is the process that finds the correct sections of AVCHD footage to use in the final rendering. Of course in film days you simply read the edge numbers off the final edited workprint and found the same numbers on the original film footage and cut the original accordingly to make the final print and end up with the exact same edit as that original footage. Is it all automatic in digital NLE editing? Fred
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Old June 13th, 2009, 02:06 PM   #19
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Hi Ron, Just curious, if you use Edius for your multicam work, why do you use Vegas for single cam?
I am sure I posted a reply but its not here now so will answer again. Vegas will edit AVCHD native so it saves a lot of time and hard drive space to edit native. With multicam I edit with HDV native in Edius but have to convert the AVCHD files as Edius will not edit AVCHD native and certainly not in multicam with 2 tracks of native HDV as well.

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Old June 13th, 2009, 02:41 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Fred Phillips View Post
Hi Ron. I am still worrying through the whole issue of whether I want to edit AVCHD (from my SR11) at all because of the need to upgrade my current computer and because the whole matter of NLE editing of AVCHD footage seems unusally complex in support of a hobbyist level of video activity. One thing I still dont get (among many others) is how you go from the edited transcoded footage to rendering the AVCHD original footage. What is the process that finds the correct sections of AVCHD footage to use in the final rendering. Of course in film days you simply read the edge numbers off the final edited workprint and found the same numbers on the original film footage and cut the original accordingly to make the final print and end up with the exact same edit as that original footage. Is it all automatic in digital NLE editing? Fred
Fred, NLE is not really like editing film with a work print. You have two options if you want simple editing of your SR11 video.
1 Use the Sony Motion Browser software that came with the camera and transfer to the PC. This will log and backup your video in a nice calendar view on the PC and will allow you to quickly back these files up to other media if you wish( I advise you to do this as hard drives in camera or PC are not the most reliable pieces of hardware).
2 After you have done the above. Learn to edit in camera, its in the manual how to split, delete clips and add clips) and create playlists. That way you can show people video directly from your camera as a playlist( you can only have one playlist in the SR11 I think?).

For more complications use the simple editor in Motion Browser, it does much the same(divide, add, delete etc) and then will make a SD DVD for you to show others or an AVCHD disc that can only be played in a Bluray player ( don't put it in a normal SD DVD) It is slow but does work.
IF you want to get more capability than this you will need a real NLE of some sort.
AVCHD is no different than any of the other video formats to edit it just takes more CPU power to do the same thing or more time. Unlike film or even video tape AVCHD needs to be backed up to some other media for safe keeping. This is the number one thing to remember. A NLE will take files that you place on the timeline and allow you to edit out pieces or transition from one clip to another with effects if you want. Add titles etc. When this is done one renders from this timeline to whatever format of output is desired( could be back to AVCHD or more likely MPEG2 for SD DVD or for shorter programs MPEG2 HD as this is a lot quicker than re-encoding to AVCHD) The NLE uses the original file as source but doesn't alter it in any way in producing the output. It's a bit like using the original film in film editing and when done you still have the original film and your edited master!!!! Clearly there are potential losses when transcoding from one format to another but some NLE's will try and not transcode if this is not needed for colour correction or effects.
There are lots of NLE's to try.

Ron Evans
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Old June 14th, 2009, 12:06 PM   #21
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Edius can edit AVCHD natively.
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Old June 14th, 2009, 12:28 PM   #22
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Technically that is true. You can put AVCHD on the timeline and it will not crash and can be edited. However unless you have a supercomputer it will not play on the timeline at anything like realtime. Edius is my main editor and I have Q9450, 8G RAM, Vista 64 optimized with most of the Vista stuff turned off. Edius will not play AVCHD realtime on my system. Vegas plays realtime but only by reducing the resolution of the preview monitor. So its not an apples and apples comparison. The whole premise of Edius is WYSIWYG so reducing resolution is not part of the deal. There is some talk of the Firecoder Blu card being used to assist playback but as far as I know that is not the case yet.

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Old June 15th, 2009, 03:51 PM   #23
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I use Vegas 8 to edit AVCHD native on the timeline. Playback in the preview monitor is set to so that frame rate is normal and resolution is about the same as SD.

Ron Evans
Specifically what are the settings for the preview window? I've been recording a bunch of stuff with my new HF-S100, and will start editing them soon.

Thank you!
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Old June 15th, 2009, 04:55 PM   #24
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There is no one setting as it will depend on your own PC. In vegas there are many choices for preview playback just start at draft and work up until the playback is less than realtime and choose the best for your viewing.

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Old June 16th, 2009, 12:27 PM   #25
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I'm not sure why Edius and Vegas don't take advantage of AVC playback acceleration available with most mainstream ATI and NVIDIA graphics adapters nowadays, for preview.
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Old June 16th, 2009, 06:59 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Ron Evans View Post
Fred, NLE is not really like editing film with a work print. You have two options if you want simple editing of your SR11 video.
1 Use the Sony Motion Browser software that came with the camera and transfer to the PC. This will log and backup your video in a nice calendar view on the PC and will allow you to quickly back these files up to other media if you wish( I advise you to do this as hard drives in camera or PC are not the most reliable pieces of hardware).
2 After you have done the above. Learn to edit in camera, its in the manual how to split, delete clips and add clips) and create playlists. That way you can show people video directly from your camera as a playlist( you can only have one playlist in the SR11 I think?).

For more complications use the simple editor in Motion Browser, it does much the same(divide, add, delete etc) and then will make a SD DVD for you to show others or an AVCHD disc that can only be played in a Bluray player ( don't put it in a normal SD DVD) It is slow but does work.
IF you want to get more capability than this you will need a real NLE of some sort.
AVCHD is no different than any of the other video formats to edit it just takes more CPU power to do the same thing or more time. Unlike film or even video tape AVCHD needs to be backed up to some other media for safe keeping. This is the number one thing to remember. A NLE will take files that you place on the timeline and allow you to edit out pieces or transition from one clip to another with effects if you want. Add titles etc. When this is done one renders from this timeline to whatever format of output is desired( could be back to AVCHD or more likely MPEG2 for SD DVD or for shorter programs MPEG2 HD as this is a lot quicker than re-encoding to AVCHD) The NLE uses the original file as source but doesn't alter it in any way in producing the output. It's a bit like using the original film in film editing and when done you still have the original film and your edited master!!!! Clearly there are potential losses when transcoding from one format to another but some NLE's will try and not transcode if this is not needed for colour correction or effects.
There are lots of NLE's to try.

Ron Evans
Thanks Ron for all this. Very useful indeed. I shall go the simpler routes you have outlined at least for the medium term...until I get my computer seriously upgraded.

Fred Phillips
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