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Old June 22nd, 2010, 03:44 PM   #1
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Workflow for AVCHD (MTS) Editing in Vegas anyone?

I'm trying to find a non-lossy intermediate codec for MTS files to ease editing in Vegas Pro 9.

Tried so far:

To Huffyuv via Prism - found no difference, in fact I think clips were actually a bit choppier to edit.

To Avid DNxHD via MPEG Streamclip - Streamclip did not recognize MTS as a format, so non-starter.

Abandoning the freeby route: Tested NeoScene trial - dropping the converted clips on the timeline caused Vegas to crash!

So I'm currently back to editing MTS clips directly until I find a workable solution.

-Terence
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Old June 22nd, 2010, 05:19 PM   #2
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What PC do you have as editing MTS should not be a problem for Vegas 9. Try changing the preview settings to get to the point where you get full frame rate. Vegas will reduce resolution to get smooth editing I don't find this a problem as the preview size on my screen is a lot less than 1920x1080 anyway.

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Old June 22nd, 2010, 05:47 PM   #3
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Quote:
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editing MTS should not be a problem for Vegas 9.
Ron Evans
Nor is it until you add a few tracks and transitions. I now mostly use proxies. You get used to the workflow.
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Old June 22nd, 2010, 07:07 PM   #4
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That is why I edit with Edius and HQ conversion for multicam. But for single track it should work fine.

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Old June 22nd, 2010, 07:49 PM   #5
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Comments so far are pretty much what I have found in fact: I have a Quad core Q9400, 2.66 GHz. Editing even a few tracks of MTS is fine, even at 1080. But I was recently making a pop song video that had multiple takes across several tracks, plus various effects. Vegas actually coped and, although a bit choppy at times, it got the job done.

It's my slightly perfectionist nature to optimize a workflow, so reading that H.264 was never intended for editing lead me up this path.

Do you guys think I should just leave well alone then?

Thanks,
Terence

Last edited by Terence Morris; June 23rd, 2010 at 12:06 PM.
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Old June 22nd, 2010, 08:10 PM   #6
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After working with a littany of codecs (HuffYUV, Lagarith, DNxHD, Jpeg2k), I've really only found one suitable for working in Vegas with no proxy. And that's the new Matrox VfW codecs. They are i-frame, high quality, and reside inside a .AVI container. They are not as efficient as Cineform, meaning they make larger files for the same quality, but that quality is EXCELLENT. Even doing mathematical differencing, once you get over about 150Mbps, the loss is negligible. I'm not working in Vegas a lot these days, but when I do, this is my only codec of choice. That is if I am STAYING in Vegas.

If I am going over to Mac and back, I use DNxHD. And for Archival purposes, it's Jpeg2000. But for just editing, it's the Matrox codecs all the way. And bonus is, they're absolutely free.
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Old June 22nd, 2010, 10:02 PM   #7
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Hello Perrone, and thanks for your valued take on this, having read your previous postings on Edius.

Anyway, while I have Vegas I think the Matrox Codecs are worth a try. I have just loaded them in Prism. I'm assuming Matrox Uncompressed HD is the correct flavor for my purpose?

-Terence
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Old June 23rd, 2010, 04:53 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terence Morris View Post
Hello Perrone, and thanks for your valued take on this, having read your previous postings on Edius.

Anyway, while I have Vegas I think the Matrox Codecs are worth a try. I have just loaded them in Prism. I'm assuming Matrox Uncompressed HD is the correct flavor for my purpose?

-Terence
Oh goodness no! Use the i-frame HD. and adjust the bitrate to your needs.
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Old June 23rd, 2010, 07:10 AM   #9
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Yikes! You were right. Uncomcompressed is humongous (of course!). So I tried the MPEG I-frame HD at a conservative 50 Mb/s. Unfortunately the output file gives a black screen, in any player or in Vegas. Hmm...
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Old June 23rd, 2010, 08:01 AM   #10
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Did you restart your computer after installing the codecs?
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Old June 23rd, 2010, 09:33 AM   #11
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Hi Perrone,

I did the reboot and even re-rendered the clip, but same deal.

I have a fairly basic set-up, no dedicated output monitor and an NVIDA 9800 GPU. So I wouldn't wast too much time helping me trouble-shoot this - but thanks.

Another question, if I may, more to help my faltering knowledge gap:

One format I recently used as an intermediate to mux some audio from within Vegas, was mxf set at HQ. This produced files about 30% larger than the original MTS and, with my poor eye at least, I couldn't detect any visible loss of quality on final rendering. I know it's a container and I'm vague about what codec Vegas employs. As best I can remember, Vegas handled these mxf renders fairly smoothly. Would this be a viable alternative as a default intermediate for my general work flow? I recently purchased the Marantz PMD661 for dedicated sound capture, so zipping A to V prior to editing will be mostly de rigueur from now on.

-Terence
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Old June 23rd, 2010, 09:49 AM   #12
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The codec is inside that MXF is Mpeg2. Ostensibly, the same codec that is in the XDCamEX cameras and the Convergent Design recording device. At HQ it is 50Mbps, so quite similar to what the new Canon XF cameras are going to be recording. Whether that will stand up as a true intermediate I have my doubts, but for a one-time pass, it should be find.

And whether or not you can see the difference or not, believe me, it's lossy.

You are the second person I've heard have issues with the Matrox codec. I am almost wondering if there isn't something else going on or you've got a bad copy of them. I know several people using them, and I am using them on three machines with no issues at all.

-P


Quote:
Originally Posted by Terence Morris View Post
Hi Perrone,

I did the reboot and even re-rendered the clip, but same deal.

I have a fairly basic set-up, no dedicated output monitor and an NVIDA 9800 GPU. So I wouldn't wast too much time helping me trouble-shoot this - but thanks.

Another question, if I may, more to help my faltering knowledge gap:

One format I recently used as an intermediate to mux some audio from within Vegas, was mxf set at HQ. This produced files about 30% larger than the original MTS and, with my poor eye at least, I couldn't detect any visible loss of quality on final rendering. I know it's a container and I'm vague about what codec Vegas employs. As best I can remember, Vegas handled these mxf renders fairly smoothly. Would this be a viable alternative as a default intermediate for my general work flow? I recently purchased the Marantz PMD661 for dedicated sound capture, so zipping A to V prior to editing will be mostly de rigueur from now on.

-Terence
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Old June 23rd, 2010, 11:29 AM   #13
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Cineform's NEO SCENE CODEC works great with Sony Vegas Pro. You can download a free trial to test it out yourself:

Cineform NeoScene
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Old June 23rd, 2010, 11:32 AM   #14
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I recently tried the Matrox I frame codecs with Vegas. Back in the day I developed I frame only mpeg2 codecs for Avid Liquid and they worked great. Of course these were raw m2v files which never really worked in Vegas without muxing into a container. I thought the Matrox codecs should work fairly well but so far the performance hasn't been the best for me. Although I have only tried it on a smaller system with a single drive so I think most of my problems may be drive bandwidth issues. One of these days I will give it a shot on one of my better systems with a raid drive.
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Old June 23rd, 2010, 12:02 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy McLoughlin View Post
Cineform's NEO SCENE CODEC works great with Sony Vegas Pro. You can download a free trial to test it out yourself:

Cineform NeoScene
Thanks for your input, Guy: Please see my first post - I did try this, but dropping the rendered clip on the timeline caused Vegas to simply crash - without fanfare!
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