Comparison of Sony HC3 and SR1, UX1 at DVinfo.net

Wolfgang Winne · October 29th, 2006, 12:00 PM

new HC3E/SR1E picture in my german hdv blog: http://www.fxsupport.de/11.html

Link to babelfish translation of the link :
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babel...t.de%2F11.html

Randall E. Drapeau · October 30th, 2006, 03:38 PM

Wolfgang,

That was a very nice comparison test. I imagine that took you quite a bit of time to put together. Good job!

Sadly, it looks like the HDV tape-based camera wins over the AVC-HD.

C'mon Panny!!!!

Paulo Teixeira · October 30th, 2006, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randall E. Drapeau

Sadly, it looks like the HDV tape-based camera wins over the AVC-HD.

That’s an arguable statement. The HC3 has a higher saturation for sure, but the SR1 shows more detail.

Paulo Teixeira · October 30th, 2006, 04:17 PM

Wolfgang Winne,
Are you going to do a comparison between the UX1 and the SR1 anytime soon?

Randall E. Drapeau · October 30th, 2006, 04:40 PM

Hey Paulo,

I DL several of those big photos and was madly clicking back and forth between the pics from the two cams. The HDV cam looked better in low light (not a big problem for me) and the colors were just, uh, more colorful!

I'm no expert but I thought the detail was a little better with the HC3 but it could just be I don't know what the heck "detail" actually means in this context.

I'm waiting for the Panny SD card AVC-HD cam myself. I really don't want another tape-based camera. I'm just an amateur and have more time than money and still hate having to get the tape into the computer. I even have one of those Sony decks which I would gladly get rid of if I could.

Speaking of the Panasonic: I guess that Sony HDD cam maxes out at 15 mbps. I wonder if the Panny will improve on that spec?

EDIT: It seems like I keep having to edit these durned things. I guess the saturation you mentioned is what I call, "Gee, mommy, look at all those bright colors!"

Wolfgang Winne · October 31st, 2006, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira

Wolfgang Winne,
Are you going to do a comparison between the UX1 and the SR1 anytime soon?

Yes, The UX1 takes the same picture with calm motives as the SR1, both cameras is identically optical constructed. The UX1 is the highest stage only 12M and is a little bit bad with very fast movements in the picture.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira

The HC3 has a higher saturation for sure, but the SR1 shows more detail.

The SR1 and UX1 have no color or sharpning control in the menu.

Steve Mullen · December 5th, 2006, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfgang Winne

Yes, The UX1 takes the same picture with calm motives as the SR1, both cameras is identically optical constructed. The UX1 is the highest stage only 12M and is a little bit bad with very fast movements in the picture.

You might want to wait until Gen 2 when 24Mbps will be used to record 1920x1080.

Something likely not going to be available on DVD units (till BD) and impractical on SD units.

Paulo Teixeira · December 6th, 2006, 07:16 PM

I remember saying a long time ago in another thread that there is no way Sony is gong to release a consumer AVCHD camcorder with a bit rate of up to 24MBPS before they release a version of the Z1u with that compression scheme and what did Sony do, they release a camcorder with an average bit rate of about 15 to 16MBPS. It would have been embarrassing if a consumer camcorder had a much better picture quality than a professional camcorder. Unless Sony releases a compression scheme that is better than HDV at 25MBPS like say 35 MBPS for the Z1u, I don’t see Sony ever releasing a consumer AVCHD camcorder with a bit rate of up to 24MBPS. Panasonic on the other hand has nothing to loose so it wouldn’t make a difference for them that AVCHD is competing with HDV.

Besides Hitachi, Panasonic and Sony have said that they will one day release consumer Blu-Ray camcorders and since Sony would love to see Blu-Ray beat HD-DVD, It would be in their best interest if they were to release a version of the Z1u with Blu-ray and I know people get offended every time I say that but imagine how convenient it would be to see your raw footage on your Blu-Ray player.

Barry Green · December 6th, 2006, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira

Besides Hitachi, Panasonic and Sony have said that they will one day release consumer Blu-Ray camcorders and since Sony would love to see Blu-Ray beat HD-DVD,

And so would Panasonic; they're both members of the Blu-Ray coalition...

Quote:

It would be in their best interest if they were to release a version of the Z1u with Blu-ray and I know people get offended every time I say that but imagine how convenient it would be to see your raw footage on your Blu-Ray player.

If I'm not mistaken, you can already do that. Can't you take the discs out of the existing AVC-HD DVD camcorders and play them in blu-ray players? Originally AVC-HD was supposed to be released on blu-ray, but the players weren't ready and the drives weren't ready, so they released it on red-laser. But I believe those discs are supposed to play on blu-ray players.

Paulo Teixeira · December 6th, 2006, 09:22 PM

The consumer camcorders are compatible with the Blu-Ray players but I mentioned the Z1u because I feel that it should also have that convenience. It’s better than using the Z1u as a tape deck and since decent HDV tape decks costs at least 2000 dollars and up, the user will save a lot of money.

If Sony can use Blu-Ray in a professional camcorder such as the XDCAMs then they cam surely use them in a camcorder with three 1/3” imagers, and it should be a lot lighter which is a big plus to most people.

Is the Blu-Ray in the XDCAM that much different than the Blu-Ray that you can buy in the stores? Because I think the consumer discs are just as reliable.

Barry Green · December 7th, 2006, 08:08 AM

They will put blu-ray in camcorders, even 1/3". But you have to understand that there are problems with blu-ray right now and they just can't make 'em. They delayed the launch of the PS3 in America for about a year, and then they delayed it further in Europe until next April because they can't make players. They only had 175,000 PS3s available in the US; Nintendo sold three times that many Wii systems in the same weekend.

AVC-HD was originally supposed to launch with mini-blu-ray drives instead of mini-DVD. But they cannot make enough recorders or players, so they went with readily-available red-laser instead.

Paulo Teixeira · December 9th, 2006, 01:43 PM

Barry,

I do have a very good idea of what’s in store for consumer Blu-Ray camcorders and I know fully well about Blu-Ray production issues but I just hope Sony and Panasonic puts Blu-Ray in three 1/3” camcorders. What I worry is that Sony may not want to get rid of Digital tape and hopefully Panasonic will indeed tap into this market if Sony doesn’t do it.

At least in the bright side I got people interested in something like this because several months ago when I mentioned three 1/3” professional Blu-Ray camcorders, most of the people were saying that Blu-Ray was never going to destroy tapes and a camcorder like that will never exist and now I’m starting to read that most of the Panasonic supporters are agreeing with me while there is still a lot of Sony supporters that disagree.

Now lest see which manufacturer releases the first three 1/3” camcorder.
It would be interesting seeing both come out because in Panasonic’s side, it would definitely be AVCHD at up to 24MBPS and in Sony’s side you would probably see MPEG 2 at 35MBPS.

Note: Although I want to see Sony and Panasonic release three 1/3” Blu-Ray camcorders; it doesn’t necessarily mean that it will happen. I want to make that clear to anyone that is reading this.

Barry Green · December 9th, 2006, 09:04 PM

I think it's absolutely inescapable that at least Sony, and probably Panasonic, will release a three-chip 1/3" camcorder, either CMOS or CCD, that records to mini-blu-ray media.

But before you see that, you'll probably see a three-chip 1/3" camcorder from them that records to SD cards, MemorySticks, or hard disk. All four media are included in the AVC-HD specs, and there's nothing stopping them from producing something using those recording media (unlike blu-ray, where physical manufacturing is currently a very limiting factor).

I don't know when we'll get that three 1/3" camcorder; I mean, Panasonic's already announced a three 1/4" CCD AVC-HD model, so it's probably inevitable that they'll produce a three 1/3" model. But if it's coming from Panasonic's Broadcast division, I wouldn't expect it to record to blu-ray, they'll probably rather opt for Secure Digital recording. I think Sony is more likely to produce a model that records to blu-ray.

October 29th, 2006, 12:00 PM	#1
Wolfgang Winne Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bremen, Germany Posts: 176	Comparison of Sony HC3 and SR1, UX1 new HC3E/SR1E picture in my german hdv blog: http://www.fxsupport.de/11.html Link to babelfish translation of the link : http://babelfish.altavista.com/babel...t.de%2F11.html __________________ Wolfgang Winne www.ohrwurmaudio.de www.fxsupport.de

December 6th, 2006, 07:16 PM	#8
Paulo Teixeira Trustee Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 1,773	I remember saying a long time ago in another thread that there is no way Sony is gong to release a consumer AVCHD camcorder with a bit rate of up to 24MBPS before they release a version of the Z1u with that compression scheme and what did Sony do, they release a camcorder with an average bit rate of about 15 to 16MBPS. It would have been embarrassing if a consumer camcorder had a much better picture quality than a professional camcorder. Unless Sony releases a compression scheme that is better than HDV at 25MBPS like say 35 MBPS for the Z1u, I don’t see Sony ever releasing a consumer AVCHD camcorder with a bit rate of up to 24MBPS. Panasonic on the other hand has nothing to loose so it wouldn’t make a difference for them that AVCHD is competing with HDV. Besides Hitachi, Panasonic and Sony have said that they will one day release consumer Blu-Ray camcorders and since Sony would love to see Blu-Ray beat HD-DVD, It would be in their best interest if they were to release a version of the Z1u with Blu-ray and I know people get offended every time I say that but imagine how convenient it would be to see your raw footage on your Blu-Ray player. __________________ https://www.youtube.com/user/PhotoVi...esEtc/featured https://www.pond5.com/artist/paulot

December 6th, 2006, 09:22 PM	#10
Paulo Teixeira Trustee Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 1,773	The consumer camcorders are compatible with the Blu-Ray players but I mentioned the Z1u because I feel that it should also have that convenience. It’s better than using the Z1u as a tape deck and since decent HDV tape decks costs at least 2000 dollars and up, the user will save a lot of money. If Sony can use Blu-Ray in a professional camcorder such as the XDCAMs then they cam surely use them in a camcorder with three 1/3” imagers, and it should be a lot lighter which is a big plus to most people. Is the Blu-Ray in the XDCAM that much different than the Blu-Ray that you can buy in the stores? Because I think the consumer discs are just as reliable. __________________ https://www.youtube.com/user/PhotoVi...esEtc/featured https://www.pond5.com/artist/paulot

December 9th, 2006, 01:43 PM	#12
Paulo Teixeira Trustee Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 1,773	Barry, I do have a very good idea of what’s in store for consumer Blu-Ray camcorders and I know fully well about Blu-Ray production issues but I just hope Sony and Panasonic puts Blu-Ray in three 1/3” camcorders. What I worry is that Sony may not want to get rid of Digital tape and hopefully Panasonic will indeed tap into this market if Sony doesn’t do it. At least in the bright side I got people interested in something like this because several months ago when I mentioned three 1/3” professional Blu-Ray camcorders, most of the people were saying that Blu-Ray was never going to destroy tapes and a camcorder like that will never exist and now I’m starting to read that most of the Panasonic supporters are agreeing with me while there is still a lot of Sony supporters that disagree. Now lest see which manufacturer releases the first three 1/3” camcorder. It would be interesting seeing both come out because in Panasonic’s side, it would definitely be AVCHD at up to 24MBPS and in Sony’s side you would probably see MPEG 2 at 35MBPS. Note: Although I want to see Sony and Panasonic release three 1/3” Blu-Ray camcorders; it doesn’t necessarily mean that it will happen. I want to make that clear to anyone that is reading this. __________________ https://www.youtube.com/user/PhotoVi...esEtc/featured https://www.pond5.com/artist/paulot

October 30th, 2006, 03:38 PM	#2
Randall E. Drapeau New Boot Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 17	Wolfgang, That was a very nice comparison test. I imagine that took you quite a bit of time to put together. Good job! Sadly, it looks like the HDV tape-based camera wins over the AVC-HD. C'mon Panny!!!!

October 30th, 2006, 04:17 PM	#4
Paulo Teixeira Trustee Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 1,773	Wolfgang Winne, Are you going to do a comparison between the UX1 and the SR1 anytime soon?

October 30th, 2006, 04:40 PM	#5
Randall E. Drapeau New Boot Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 17	Hey Paulo, I DL several of those big photos and was madly clicking back and forth between the pics from the two cams. The HDV cam looked better in low light (not a big problem for me) and the colors were just, uh, more colorful! I'm no expert but I thought the detail was a little better with the HC3 but it could just be I don't know what the heck "detail" actually means in this context. I'm waiting for the Panny SD card AVC-HD cam myself. I really don't want another tape-based camera. I'm just an amateur and have more time than money and still hate having to get the tape into the computer. I even have one of those Sony decks which I would gladly get rid of if I could. Speaking of the Panasonic: I guess that Sony HDD cam maxes out at 15 mbps. I wonder if the Panny will improve on that spec? EDIT: It seems like I keep having to edit these durned things. I guess the saturation you mentioned is what I call, "Gee, mommy, look at all those bright colors!"

December 7th, 2006, 08:08 AM	#11
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	They will put blu-ray in camcorders, even 1/3". But you have to understand that there are problems with blu-ray right now and they just can't make 'em. They delayed the launch of the PS3 in America for about a year, and then they delayed it further in Europe until next April because they can't make players. They only had 175,000 PS3s available in the US; Nintendo sold three times that many Wii systems in the same weekend. AVC-HD was originally supposed to launch with mini-blu-ray drives instead of mini-DVD. But they cannot make enough recorders or players, so they went with readily-available red-laser instead.

December 9th, 2006, 09:04 PM	#13
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	I think it's absolutely inescapable that at least Sony, and probably Panasonic, will release a three-chip 1/3" camcorder, either CMOS or CCD, that records to mini-blu-ray media. But before you see that, you'll probably see a three-chip 1/3" camcorder from them that records to SD cards, MemorySticks, or hard disk. All four media are included in the AVC-HD specs, and there's nothing stopping them from producing something using those recording media (unlike blu-ray, where physical manufacturing is currently a very limiting factor). I don't know when we'll get that three 1/3" camcorder; I mean, Panasonic's already announced a three 1/4" CCD AVC-HD model, so it's probably inevitable that they'll produce a three 1/3" model. But if it's coming from Panasonic's Broadcast division, I wouldn't expect it to record to blu-ray, they'll probably rather opt for Secure Digital recording. I think Sony is more likely to produce a model that records to blu-ray.