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Old August 9th, 2005, 09:49 PM   #1
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editing HDV with Avid Xpress

I'm thinking of using the HVR-Z1U HDV for a shoot but I'm a little concerned/confused about the editing. from what I know Avid Xpress as it is now does not support hdv. can someone please briefly explain the implications of this? could I still edit the footage or can I do nothing until Avid releases the patch?

finally, is it worth it to shoot with the Z1 if I can't edit with the hd patch?

thank you for your time.
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Old August 9th, 2005, 11:14 PM   #2
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HDV support on Avid XpressPro is due out next month. Untill then, others are using work-arounds to import it into the system. Check with www.avid.com on the forums to see how its being done.
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Old August 9th, 2005, 11:32 PM   #3
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I've been waiting, too
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Old August 10th, 2005, 03:21 AM   #4
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Try Edition

Try Pinnacle Edition. You can get a free demo copy by going to the Pinnacle site and it is HDV native so no rez loss for straight cuts. I also invite you to the Pinnacle Professional Liquid Edition forum where there are a LOT of Z1U users and have plenty of experience already to share now.

take care
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Old August 10th, 2005, 05:10 AM   #5
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I've been doing a basic cut in Edition then exporting in DNxHD format, loading it into Avid and finishing off there.

Personally I really dislike Edition, but it does get the job done... maybe I'm missing something, but I find it physically painful to use: I have to keep clicking mode buttons on and off and they're spread so far apart that I'm continually making mouse movements across half the screen to get to them. Bad, bad design.

Also, frankly, I suspect Avid will kill it before long now they're buying the company.
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Old August 10th, 2005, 05:33 AM   #6
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Hi,

Mark, sorry to here you're handicapped. You can customize the interface of Edition 10 ways to sunday. There should be a lot of people over in BBC land to help you learn Edition.

I came from Avid to Edition and would never go back and Avid has already publicly stated that Edition will not be killed off but instead, further developed and kept in place at Pinnacle (a division of Avid).

Here is the press release from Avid:

http://www.avid.com/company/releases...acle_corp.html

take care hombre...

PS There is a conference for high level Edition users in November called Liquid Immersion happening in L.A. Can you come?
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Old August 10th, 2005, 06:19 AM   #7
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Where in that release does it say the "Edition will not be killed off"?

Sorry, but I couldn't find it. Lots of talk about assimilating the broadcast assets, and leveraging the Pinnacle brand at the consumer level. But nothing about Edition at all. As the final paragraphs states, lots of "forward looking" statements that may or may not be true.
(not saying they will or won't... just saying it's not certain WHAT they are going to do with Edition)
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Old August 10th, 2005, 06:38 AM   #8
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3rd paragraph, last sentence.

"Avid will also continue to develop the Pinnacle Liquid™ family, leveraging it across products and markets served by both the Avid Video and Consumer divisions."


Also the takeover press releases were 'forward looking' as well.
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Old August 10th, 2005, 06:43 AM   #9
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Hmmm... "Leveraging it across products and markets..." Yup, sounds like canablizing the components and putting them into different products.

Sorry, I think that could be read a number of ways. Like I said. Not saying they will kill it off. Just saying that nothing says the "won't".
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Old August 10th, 2005, 06:46 AM   #10
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Very true, they did not say they would not cannibalize it and I'm almost sure the HDV timeline Xpress Pro is getting came from Pinnacle (or at least the codec if they want to keep up with FCP). Avid and Pinnacle have been courting for 10 or 12 years and there are some of Pinnacle's ex-personel already in place at Avid especially in XpressPro's team (as I understand it).

we'll see..
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Old August 10th, 2005, 06:54 AM   #11
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Quote:
Mark, sorry to here you're handicapped.
I can edit with Avid or Premiere for 12 or more hours a day with no problems: I can't use Edition for more than a couple of hours without my wrist aching. It's crazy to put essential mode buttons half-way across the screen from the editing timeline.

Quote:
You can customize the interface of Edition 10 ways to sunday.
Personally I'd rather have an interface that works well out of the box than have to waste time customizing it to the way it should work. I'm only using Edition until Avid release their HDV support in Xpress Pro, then I'll be back to a program which does work well out of the box and doesn't feel the need to abandon all the standards of the Windows user interface.

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Don't forget, Avid and Pinnacle have been courting for 10 or 12 years and there are a lot of Pinnacle personel already in place at Avid especially in XpressPro's team.
I hope not: in my experience Pinnacle have always produced great hardware but lousy software. Pinnacle software (Edition software-only, and Premiere using my Pro-One card) is pretty much the only thing that can spontaneously reboot my PC.
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Old August 10th, 2005, 07:03 AM   #12
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It's funny because that's why I left Avid. Lock up problems constantly, and not on just one edit station. I'm sure Avid Xpress is much better than it was in '01 but I hated loosing edits. Edition (FAST) has been really good for me and my production company (currently 3 edit stations). I can send you a desktop profile that may help you if your interested.

Are you?
If so then click here and download the profile. I'm sure it will bring you joy. Plus, do you use the keyboard shortcuts?


Don't get me wrong, we use Premiere and Boris and AE and many many other softwares, but I have no complaints about Edition especially in HDV. It has been stellar
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Old August 10th, 2005, 07:12 AM   #13
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The really funny thing is, I've got a partner who's been with FCP from thebeginning... LOVES his Pinnacle cinewave card... and can't get any service on it anymore. When he found out Avid bought Pinnacle... he cried "They're everywhere! I've been assimilated!"

Yeah, I've no doubt the HDV solution is one of the reasons they bought Pinnacle. We'll see how it all shakes out in the next year. The broadcast boards are pleased, the Pinnacle consumer brands are worried, and the Avid boards are frustrated... "We live in interesting times."
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Old August 10th, 2005, 07:18 AM   #14
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For what it's worth. My personal take on HDV editing is that it's too little, too late. By that I mean that it's an inelegant solution to bridging High Definition resolution with low storage capacity. I think, that within twelve months from now, that storage solutions will enable some form of HD for the prosumer level... with editing on the frame rather than GOP's and MPEG solutions. Will it be P2? Or some hybrid of the new holographic storage? Don't know. But I really think we'll see some form of HD solution leapfrog over HDV in a year.

Before HDV people freak out at that. I think the format will be supported for another decade. Heck, I can still go to Fry's and buy a VHS-C and Hi 8 or Digital 8 camera BRAND NEW. I'm not one of those to cry 'obsolete' before the mock-up has hit the showroom.

Just my observations over my second cup of coffee. (Yeah, I bought my obsolete Xl2 last november, and it's paid for itself)
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Old August 10th, 2005, 07:29 AM   #15
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Quote:
I can send you a desktop profile that may help you if your interested.
Thanks... I have another HDV movie to edit soon, so anything's worth a try.

Quote:
But I really think we'll see some form of HD solution leapfrog over HDV in a year.
I'm not convinced. Most people I know shooting HDV don't want to have to record to hard drives or P2 cards... they want to shoot to cheap tapes or DVDs.
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