FYI: Video Demo - Scaling ProHD for SD delivery in Liquid 7 at DVinfo.net

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Old July 3rd, 2006, 09:33 PM   #1
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FYI: Video Demo - Scaling ProHD for SD delivery in Liquid 7

Hi,

I put together a short video explaining how to easily scale a ProHD timeline for SD delivery/playout using Liquid 7. As with anything, it's all in the preparation. This method is a good workflow to get output to BetaSP and still cut the original content in HD. This is NOT a DVD workflow. Of course there are alot more details (like how to handle audio in a container), but this little piece will get you going in the right direction.

Click here for Windows Media

I think this should play on a Mac. It was not encoded with the advanced profile. If not, then let me know and I'll encode in some other fasion. Now that I have my arms around Camtasia, I can produce video's pretty easily. If anyone has a "special request" then I can try to accomodate.

Enjoy,

S.Noe
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Old July 3rd, 2006, 11:00 PM   #2
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Thank you!
These videos are extremely valuable and highly appreciated.

Just a thought, another subject to cover might be uprezzing 50p (and 60p) standard definition video and putting it in an HDV timeline as slow motion.

Again, thank you!
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Old July 8th, 2006, 11:36 AM   #3
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4x3 ProHD Letterbox Scale Liquid

Here is the second scaling video which will display how to get ProHD ready for letterbox 4:3 delivery.

Click here for Scaling video #2

These first two video's in the series are the quick and easy method of scaling and are perfectly suitable for delivery to broadcasters. The next video will focus on scaling and the role of the different 3 different 2d editors in Liquid.

@Jack, I'll get your 50p incorporated into the series.

Last edited by Stephen L. Noe; July 8th, 2006 at 01:30 PM.
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Old July 8th, 2006, 01:06 PM   #4
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Thank you very much!
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Old July 8th, 2006, 07:56 PM   #5
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The difference between GPU, CPU and Classic 2d scaling.

OK guys and gals.

Scaling part #3 is ready for download. This one explains the difference between the 3 (GPU, CPU and Classic) 2D editors as well as why you'd select one scaling method over another one.

Click here for Segment #3 of the tutorial.

Only one segment left which brings it all home to include scaling 50p SD to HD for slowmotion effect while keeping maximum quality on the uprez. And getting external video to scale up to HD from an unusual source.

S.Noe
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Old July 9th, 2006, 12:21 PM   #6
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A little off topic, but I recently downloaded the demo of liquid to see if I could get it working with HD100. This is by no means meant to be a criticism of Liquid - I'm just trying to figure out why it didn't work for me. My home system is a little underpowered (Pentium 4 2.4GHz) but Liquid seemed to take an inordinately long time to load (say compared to Avid Xpress). I could get it to control my HD100 with correctly aligned 720P25 but for the life of me I couldn't get it to capture a single frame of video - is this a limitation of the demo? The project was defintely set up properly. I could mark in and outs, create a batch list, control the deck type (which I changed from Generic to JVC when I couldn't get it to work the first time), but I couldn't get it to record either live or by marking points... not a very auspicious start for me I'm afraid.
I could successfully capture on this same system a complete tape using CapDVHS.
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Old July 9th, 2006, 03:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mitchell
A little off topic, but I recently downloaded the demo of liquid to see if I could get it working with HD100. This is by no means meant to be a criticism of Liquid - I'm just trying to figure out why it didn't work for me. My home system is a little underpowered (Pentium 4 2.4GHz) but Liquid seemed to take an inordinately long time to load (say compared to Avid Xpress). I could get it to control my HD100 with correctly aligned 720P25 but for the life of me I couldn't get it to capture a single frame of video - is this a limitation of the demo? The project was defintely set up properly. I could mark in and outs, create a batch list, control the deck type (which I changed from Generic to JVC when I couldn't get it to work the first time), but I couldn't get it to record either live or by marking points... not a very auspicious start for me I'm afraid.
I could successfully capture on this same system a complete tape using CapDVHS.
How about if you open the logging tool and play the tape, and then hit the digitize button? Does it say digitizing above the control window? Now hit the digitize button again and stop play. Next close out the logging tool and take a look in your rack that you pointed to in the logging tool. Does your clip populate the rack? Now take the clip and use it on your timeline at will.

However, a P4 2.4 is not alot of beef and I think it is the absolute bare essential to run with HD (and only if it's a hyperthread chip).
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Old July 16th, 2006, 07:09 PM   #8
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Segment 4 on Scaling HDV includes Scaling and Slomotion 50p

Hi,

Here is my final schpeel on scaling ProHD. This one includes Scaling 50p to an NTSC timeline. First the clips must be scaled and then fused to create a new clip that is compliant with 1280x720. Then the frames are conformed by virtue of the linear time warp 60%. 50p ProHD takes some more work to make it right but it is well worth it since 576pSD is much closer in resolution size than 480pSD.

Follow along and you'll soon be able to shoot in 50p and use the imagery with confidence. Be aware that the clip I was working with was an out of focus test clip.

Click here for Segment 4 of the tutorial

Click here to see the resulting video effect

Once again, slomotion video for 480pSD also requires uprez and a linear timewarp - 50% using the strong algorithm and you should be all set. You can get away with other % settings as well but if you keep @ 50% for 480p60 and keep @ 60% for 576p50 you get frame for frame conforming to 29.97fps for DVD. If you're cutting a 24p film then the math is 40% for 480p60 and 48% for 576p50.

Next up on tutorials is deshaking ProHD using the outstanding Virtual Dub plugin "deshaker" by Gunnar Thalin.

Last edited by Stephen L. Noe; July 17th, 2006 at 02:02 AM.
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Old July 25th, 2006, 10:58 PM   #9
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Using Virtual Dub Deshaker on ProHD

Hi,

Here is the Virtual Dub Deshaker video I mentioned. It's not fully produced and there is a second part that includes cropping for delivery but you'll get the jist of how to perform deshaking to salvage the worst video imagineable with Virtual Dub's Deshaker

Click here for DivX video tutorial on Deshaker
Click here for WMV video tutorial on Deshaker

Click here for Virtual Dub Plugin (it's free)

Click here for Deshaker plugin (it's Free)

all the best.....

PS Any more request? I'll try to accomodate you.
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Old July 27th, 2006, 01:10 AM   #10
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Hey stev is their something like that for FCP??

rob.
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Old July 27th, 2006, 03:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Bale
Hey stev is their something like that for FCP??

rob.
Rob,

I'm not aware of that type of deshaker (vector analysis) or motion stabilization (point tracking) available in anything other than Virtual Dub.
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Old July 27th, 2006, 03:40 PM   #12
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FCP 5 Yeah... this would be great...
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Old July 28th, 2006, 06:36 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe
Rob,

I'm not aware of that type of deshaker (vector analysis) or motion stabilization (point tracking) available in anything other than Virtual Dub.
Now that Shake is so cheap, get that. It intergrates great with FCP. I am pretty sure it Vector Analysis. I know that it has motion stabilization.
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Old July 28th, 2006, 07:12 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe
Here is my final schpeel on scaling ProHD.
Once again kudos. A few points -- since I'm doing a similar series for HDV@Work.

1) You make it sound as though the issue is quality. But, perhaps the bigger issue is that the Classic FX are not RT. (Nor is there are a toolbar icon.) This is a killer because unlike other NLEs -- when Liquid hits a non RT FX -- it displays nothing. Just like Premiere years ago.

2) Clearly you have invested a huge amount of time in leaning all this. I don't remember this being covered in the 1200-page manual. So, most folks will never know about these variations. Even if it is covered, who reads a 1200 page manual?

3) The fact is, that 4 types of scaling could be better handled were the entire set re-writen so there is only one interface. Then, the more computation required the slower the playback. This way, as computers get faster -- FX would become more RT.

4) The same problem is with CC. There are several -- each has a different interface. Each has different capabilities. So you are dead in the water if you want to use the the powerful CC AND need keyframes.

Having said this, every day I'm more blown away by what Liquid can do.

So if you are up to another tutorial -- the power CC needs a tutorial. There are the inspection tools which make no sense to me. Why would I care to see my colorspace as a cube? I doubt any other NLE offers Cubes and Lighting, etc. So I don't care about these. Nor about Primary and Secondary CC because most of us know this.

But there are a set of multi-point controls that make no sense YET to me.

There are other operational questions. My cursor has suddenly turned into a magnification square. Can't figure out how to get back to regular cursor. There must be a dozen icons that do all sorts of things. Things I've never seen in any NLE?

PS: you show someone selecting a bunch of clips in a TL and changing the scale. This does NOT always work. A confirmed limitation!
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Old July 28th, 2006, 08:45 PM   #15
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@ S.Mullen,

In answer to you first point; I choose the Classic FX on those scenarios for a specific reason. They render and look better. The run of the mill scaling can be done with the RT or the properties scaling, but when deshaker is used I highly recommend using the Classic 2d FX. When scaling and creating slow motion out of 50 or 60p you must use the Classic clip FX in order to create a new file in the native frame rate. You're benefitting from my years of experience on that.

Second point; Most of the information is in the manual, however there are quite a few nuggets of technique I've learned as the best practice.

Third point; I'm using a pretty powerful computer that handles at least 8 streams RT (720p). The RT effects, especially the 2d editors are, for the most part, full frame rate on playback, so anyone should be able to get RT with ease without breaking the bank on hardware. I like the way the editors are setup. The FAST team has not abandoned the truly powerful Classic clips FX merely because they could. Instead they left them in place and when all else fails the Classic Clip FX work (no if's and's or but's).

Fourth point; The all powerful CX color corrector will always be a render because it is a subpixel editor and can operate in the YUV space. The RT color corrector is not, instead it is 8bit RGB and is suitable for most broadcast work. There are a total of 4 color correctors to choose from as well as the gamut of FX that affect color. Choices!


The CX color corrector is at least a 5 part series, even then it's not deep enough to really understand it. We'll be featuring the CX color corrector as a class at Avids Immersion in November. Until then I'll see if I can shed some light on it.

On your PS. If the entire timeline is composed of ProHD then the properties scaling works. If you're mixing formats then I recomment dedicating a rack to a specific format and scaling them together (like for like) before ever putting them on the timeline.

S.Noe
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