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Old December 18th, 2006, 07:23 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Mullen
It's Avid's non-Liquid products that have a problem -- not native editing itself.
Not exactly true either...

As far as I can tell from my own experience, Avid's problem with HDV1 is machine control, export settings and mainly ingest. JVC and Avid don't play nicely together, which makes it a real pain to deal with the format. If, however, you manage to capture the footage (and yes, I am only talking about 720p30 here) then editing natively is no problem at all. In fact, there is virtually no difference between HDV1 and DV. All effects that are RT in DV are also RT in HDV1.
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Old December 18th, 2006, 07:24 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Mullen
That's sooo untrue. I've been editing HDV natively in every NLE and doing so from the first day HDV arrived in the USA years ago. It's Avid's non-Liquid products that have a problem -- not native editing itself. You simply keep the myth alive with unsupported comments like this.
Wouldn't know, haven't spent any time cutting HDV myself (thanks to Avid being slack). But I've heard plenty of editors say they don't bother trying to cut natively in HDV, performance just isn't anywhere near the level of a per-frame codec.

What's your workflow in Avid for HDV? Do you just stay HDV all the way or do you use DNxHD at some point?
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Old December 19th, 2006, 01:21 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun Wilson
Wouldn't know, haven't spent any time cutting HDV myself (thanks to Avid being slack). But I've heard plenty of editors say they don't bother trying to cut natively in HDV, performance just isn't anywhere near the level of a per-frame codec.

What's your workflow in Avid for HDV? Do you just stay HDV all the way or do you use DNxHD at some point?
If you are around Avid editors, a huge number of them seem to run on very old equipment. This is unlike FCP users who typically upgrade to the fastest Macs because they don't spend $5000 for a software NLE that's still not current with all HD format's and doesn't support AJA and BM boards. :)

I too have avoided Avid -- except for Liquid which is a great native HDV editor -- especially on a MBP 2. Avid is so far behind I wonder if they'll ever get caught-up. Like still no dual core support! No ATI support.
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Old December 19th, 2006, 05:01 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Bakala
Tony, I am pretty sure that you can transcode HDV1 to DNxHD after ingest and then edit in DNx - although, unless one is doing serious compositing or coulour correction, there is little benefit to this fairly rime-consuming precess. I guess the one thing that works better with DNx is that QT reference export could be used (although, I haven't found a setting that would deliver satisfactory quality for SD DVD).
Hi Jiri

Yes, of course you can transcode native HDV1 to DNx after ingest but ONLY at 720p.30. My point was purely that there is no native support for HDV1 at 24, 25, 50 or 60 fps in Avid's traditional products. If you can't get into Avid, you can't transcode it in Avid!
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Old December 19th, 2006, 05:04 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Mullen
If you are around Avid editors, a huge number of them seem to run on very old equipment. This is unlike FCP users who typically upgrade to the fastest Macs because they don't spend $5000 for a software NLE that's still not current with all HD format's and doesn't support AJA and BM boards. :)

I too have avoided Avid -- except for Liquid which is a great native HDV editor -- especially on a MBP 2. Avid is so far behind I wonder if they'll ever get caught-up. Like still no dual core support! No ATI support.
I'll second every aspect of this. It is incredibly frustrating that Avid is now lagging so far behind even low-end competition in terms of I/O flexibility, format support and in terms of code base sophistication. It is particularly frustrating to me because I find that the basic cutting (NOT effects) interface is still way ahead of most of the competition and - for better or worse - as good as all facilities here in the UK are Avid-based. What this means to our company is that we are practically forced to continue using Avid.

The second biggest frustration is that Avid have now inherited the Fast interface, otherwise known as Liquid. I had high hopes for this software back in the day and now I'm extremely upset that it's been taken over by the Avid team. A bit of non-FCP competition at the middle level would have been great. Maybe Canopus/GVG can force their way in there...
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Old December 19th, 2006, 06:21 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antony Michael Wilson
Hi Jiri

Yes, of course you can transcode native HDV1 to DNx after ingest but ONLY at 720p.30. My point was purely that there is no native support for HDV1 at 24, 25, 50 or 60 fps in Avid's traditional products. If you can't get into Avid, you can't transcode it in Avid!
Yes, but you can transcode out of Avid to DNxHD as you stated earlier.

Also, the myth about HDV editing being a problem is also simply that. HDV editing, especially at 720P, is very close to DV. If you are running any G5 or better, or similar on the PC side, you should be editing almost like DV. The only time it gets annoying on my Powerbook G4 are when effects are applied.
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Old December 19th, 2006, 10:14 AM   #22
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720p and Avid

I work with HDV1 (Prohd) and Avid since a year now. I capture and export to tape fine, with no major problems. Real time is even better than in DV.
Lately with the 5.6.1, 5.6.3 updates and QT 7, I have realized that the program became very buggy.
I have problems to export m2t, with many error messages, buffer problems, sound problems, corrupted media, etc, almost with every project.
A week ago I wanted to import a 34min. m2t, that was exported originally by my avid with lots of trouble, but it stopped at 24min. every time I tried.
Has been impossible to import it since then.
I re-captured it, as I had it printed to tape, in a new 720p proj., re-exported it again as m2t and it has been impossible ever after to re-import it in the project. Stops at 24min. exactly same frame. I re-captured, re-edited,
re-exported, same problem again and again. The reason I wanted to change the spelling of a title.
This is a new thing and I wonder if someone can give me some advise for it.
The Avid forum ignored my question...
With the 5.2.1 - 5.2.2 version I could re-import longer m2ts with no problem. Is this some kind of quota or just a new bug? Bugs... with Avid...?
Thanks
Panos
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Old December 19th, 2006, 10:50 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panos Bournias
The Avid forum ignored my question...
Funny, I find that happening quite a bit...they tend to ignore questions that would have to have embarassing answers. Like, "oh sorry, Avid cannot do that right now (eventhough far cheaper and 'less professional' software can)." It's like beating a dead horse...extremely frustrating!
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Old December 19th, 2006, 11:07 AM   #24
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That's for sure. The other problem is that many people on the Xpress Pro forum really aren't that experienced with Avid and the MC and Symph guys who are much more likely to be seasoned professionals just steer clear. If you have a problem with a feature that is common to MC (most are) I think it's best to post on the MC board.

Also, the Avid boards suffer from the usual Avid snobbery. A lot of these guys work in facilities or environments where non-linear editing is quite simply synonymous with Avid, so they have no experience with other systems or anything to compare Avid with. The exception is some of the Americans, who might have come into contact with FCP in a professional context.

I would also add that - while Avid can work with native HDV on faster machines quite well - the experience is so much more slick on Liquid or Edius. Also, the entire Avid code base and system architecture is a legacy that does not lend itself at all well to the rapidly expanding range of HD formats. Personally, I find the whole 'Open Timeline' thing a bit of a joke because in many ways it's just Avid's way of masking the deficiencies inherent to the product. But that's not to say that the grass is always greener. In general, given an open choice, I'd take Avid over FCP any day.
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Old December 19th, 2006, 11:08 AM   #25
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That's for sure. The other problem is that many people on the Xpress Pro forum really aren't that experienced with Avid and the MC and Symph guys who are much more likely to be seasoned professionals just steer clear. If you have a problem with a feature that is common to MC (most are) I think it's best to post on the MC board.

Also, the Avid boards suffer from the usual Avid snobbery. A lot of these guys work in facilities or environments where non-linear editing is quite simply synonymous with Avid, so they have no experience with other systems or anything to compare Avid with. The exception is some of the Americans, who might have come into contact with FCP in a professional context.

I would also add that - while Avid can work with native HDV on faster machines quite well - the experience is so much more slick on Liquid or Edius. Also, the entire Avid code base and system architecture is a legacy that does not lend itself at all well to the rapidly expanding range of HD formats. Personally, I find the whole 'Open Timeline' thing a bit of a joke because in many ways it's just Avid's way of masking the deficiencies inherent to the product. But that's not to say that the grass is always greener. In general, given an open choice, I'd take Avid over FCP any day.
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Old December 24th, 2006, 10:57 AM   #26
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Re import m2t

But why cannot import an m2t dur. 34 min in my avid project? And what is this stoping always at 24min even if it is originated from a different export... So no possibility of the same corrupted frame. Happens on the 5.6.1 5.6.3 with QT 7.1.
Before with the 5.51, 5.52 there was no problem.
Does someone have any idea? Is it a new quota...
Merry Christmas anyway to all of you and happy-lucky and with 25p support from Avid 2007.
Panos
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