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Old March 22nd, 2007, 05:45 PM   #1
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Avid disappoints us again!

http://www.avidstore.com/us/index.cf...&categoryid=69

Version 5.7 (Xpress Pro) and 2.7 (Media Composer) are now available for another $50. No HDV 24 Frame support at all.

Not surprised.

Last edited by Boyd Ostroff; March 22nd, 2007 at 08:44 PM. Reason: inflammatory
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Old March 22nd, 2007, 08:40 PM   #2
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I've been on the phone to someone at Avid who's just as steamed as us about the whole thing (in particular charging for this upgrade when for Windows users it's really a minor update). There's some internal politics going on that are causing delays for us getting proper HDV support, but it sounds like there's a movement within Avid starting to push very hard for it. It still ain't gunna be as soon as we'd like, but at least there's people in there fighting for us.

It's good at least 720p50 is finally in there, not the p25 or p24 we need but at least for p25 it means there's a slightly more plausible workflow with the need to transcode to 1080p gone.

Last edited by Boyd Ostroff; March 22nd, 2007 at 08:44 PM. Reason: profanity
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Old March 22nd, 2007, 09:09 PM   #3
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If you ask me, it's unacceptable. But it also indicates that Avid has no interest in HDV 720p - or let me re-word it - what they are doing is really a boycott of JVC. Politics? Likely. It might be worth noting that this release also hasn't addressed support for Sony's 24/30p over 1080i (HVR-V1 series cameras). And that's just being very un-responsive.
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Old March 22nd, 2007, 10:26 PM   #4
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The Canons (XL-H1,A1,G1, HV20) are also not supported, although that is the same format and pulldown as the new Sony. JVC should have been a long time ago though considering how long it has been out.
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Old March 23rd, 2007, 04:39 AM   #5
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Get Final Cut Pro.

One of the reasons I decided to go with FCP instead of Avid Xpress was because I felt Final Cut Pro would be a little more responsive in making the codecs for 24p support with my HD100. They released the 720/24p last year. It actually took Apple a while to do this but at least they kept their word.

Why is it so hard to make codecs for all these different capture modes? Do they have to re-write the software to support it? I just don't understand what is so hard about it.

Also, I don't think Avid is boycotting 720p. 3 major networks including FOX, ESPN & ABC broadcast with it, so the format isn't going anywhere for a while.

I wonder what software these networks use?
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Old March 23rd, 2007, 05:41 AM   #6
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Dear oh dear.

These are exactly the same reasons I ditched Avid in favour of FCP. I got tired of being the last to get support for new codecs and constantly being told we are working on it when evidently they weren't.

FCP is inferior in interface terms but I can live with that but I couldn't live with the lack of support for cameras/codecs.

From the outside it looks like Avid want you to buy Liquid or MC and XPP doesn't really have too much of a role any more. MC for offlining MCA projects and Liquid for the smaller outfit/all-in-one crowd.

XPP was way ahead of the competition at version 3.5 but it's a sad joke now.

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Old March 23rd, 2007, 05:47 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Jaco View Post
Get Final Cut Pro.

Why is it so hard to make codecs for all these different capture modes? Do they have to re-write the software to support it? I just don't understand what is so hard about it.
Avid is not against 720P so much as HDV in general. Overall, they have not been great in delivering that support.

As far as the programming, Canopus released support within weeks. WEEKS! Avid simply DOES NOT WANT TO.

And I have FCP (long before I bought Avid actually). I switched to Avid because I do like it, but have returned to FCP since I bought the JVC HD100.
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Old March 23rd, 2007, 09:08 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Jaco View Post

Why is it so hard to make codecs for all these different capture modes? Do they have to re-write the software to support it? I just don't understand what is so hard about it.

Also, I don't think Avid is boycotting 720p. 3 major networks including FOX, ESPN & ABC broadcast with it, so the format isn't going anywhere for a while.
First off. From what I can tell the major reason for this minor release is offering universal binary for the MAC platform. This is a definite recode but next they have to recode for Vista. That could take some time. And there is a siginifigant amount of recoding for each codec and video platform. All using different frame rates, codec algos etc. Currently, Canopus, Adobe (MAC version coming), Newtek, and Apple only have to code on one side. However, that doesn't excuse Avid by promising support 2 years ago and still not delivering. They have had plenty of time.

But now that Universal Binary is out things should start to move faster. I'm sure that there is politics involved therefore I would assume and hope that Avid is going to announce more features other than just Univ. binary at NAB, which is just 3 weeks away. At least they have 720/50 for the PAL folks.

Here's keeping my fingers crossed for 24 & 25p HDV.

Speaking of NAB: I do think this will be a crossroads for Avid and how I view the platform or use it in the future. All of the signs are there that Apple is going to release version 6.0 as a major release because they're holding a preNAB Press Conference. If Avid doesn't match them with a strong version 3 Media Composer and/or version 6 Xpress Pro, then it could be a big turning point for me.
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Old March 23rd, 2007, 12:39 PM   #9
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Just a friendly note....

Saying that something "sucks" is usually a good way to insure that your post will be edited or deleted. Please try to find another way to express your sentiments....

Thanks.
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Old March 23rd, 2007, 12:47 PM   #10
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Just another friendly note, I will NOT tolerate profanity or vulgarity on this site.

Adopt a professional level of business communication or post elsewhere on the web. Thanks in advance,
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Old March 27th, 2007, 04:55 AM   #11
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Yes, it really looks like Avid will not introduce ProHD support besides Liquid. It seems they think Liquid is enough. Oh boy, are they wrong. Liquid is horrible and I really don't like it. I'm only stuck with it now because it's the only one that seems to work OK with ProHD apart from FCP, (I really don't want to go Mac) but I really donít like Liquid. Too slow for editing long form projects among other limitations. Is there anything else out there that works with ProHD 24p and 25p besides Vegas, FCP or Premiere? Even if Edius does, I don't like Edius. It feels too amateur and awkward. At least version 3 did. Iím looking for something to edit long form projects that is fast and has good media management. NewTek SpeedEdit looked like it could have been it. But it seems to be bugged and way too limited and crude. Also they donít even have a demo. I donít want to buy something without trying first.
If nothing else shows up by Q3 of this year I'm strongly considering switching to Mac and getting FCP. But I will only do that as a last alternative. FCP seems to be THE most flexible and useful platform out there, even in comparison to the higher end Avids. The problem is the dongle it needs in order to work, a.k.a. a Mac :)
I think if Apple released a Windows version of FCP, the huge majority of people would use FCP and Premiere, Avid, Vegas and other PC applications would go out of business. Avid would probably still keep the higher end applications but XPP and MC would be out of the window pretty soon. But then gain Apple would also not sells any Macs anymore. :D
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Old March 27th, 2007, 07:39 AM   #12
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did someone found a way to import HDV1 25p into the 5,7

There must be a way to make this work. Did anyone work out something so we can start working with 25 instead of 30. My Avid runs on a PC. Any third party software... Something... new. I read at the Avid forum that with the 5,7 you can choose "recognise Varicam frames" in the capture tab and digitize HDV 24p. Did anyone try that?
Waiting waiting waiting
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Old March 27th, 2007, 01:49 PM   #13
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Can you link me to the post you read this from?
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Old March 27th, 2007, 04:00 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Maier View Post
I think if Apple released a Windows version of FCP, the huge majority of people would use FCP and Premiere, Avid, Vegas and other PC applications would go out of business. Avid would probably still keep the higher end applications but XPP and MC would be out of the window pretty soon. But then gain Apple would also not sells any Macs anymore. :D
Or Avid would just be forced to drop XPP and lower the Price on the MC to FCP level, and allow 3. party hardware(not very likely...) or lower the price on their own hardware so that it can compete with the higher end 3. party hardware.

I'm in the same position, using Avid and won't go mac unless there is no other real alternative, for some reason I don't like Premiere or vegas, Liquid is ok.
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Old March 27th, 2007, 04:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panos Bournias View Post
There must be a way to make this work. Did anyone work out something so we can start working with 25 instead of 30. My Avid runs on a PC. Any third party software... Something... new. I read at the Avid forum that with the 5,7 you can choose "recognise Varicam frames" in the capture tab and digitize HDV 24p. Did anyone try that?
Waiting waiting waiting
Panos
I don't have 5.7, but in 5.5 there is a check for "Preserve Varicam Rates" in the capture tool. Pretty sure that it wouldn't work but I tried it anyway via firewire and of course it didn't work. The reason is that both the 720/p 24 and 720/60 project presets are looking for DVCPro HD signals coming down the firewire. So you get a "Don't recognize signal" warning each time. So unless 5.7 has changes the way it captures, I have my doubts. I think this only works with an HDV to component converter box coming into an Adrenaline with HD board. But not Firewire.


The frustration with me lies in the fact that right now when you're in a 720/30 HDV preset in capture mode with a 720/24 tape feeding via firewire, you can see the stream coming into the capture montior. You can see the footage coming in. So it sees the 720/60 stream down the pipe. It would seem that all they need to do is do the same thing that they did with the Preserve Varicam setting and capture the flags at 23.978. Apple did, Edius did, Liquid Does.

It's politics, pure and simple.
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