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Old October 30th, 2001, 10:21 PM   #1
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Tora Tora Tora vs. Pearl Harbor

I like Tora Tora Tora better, but Pearl Harbor does have some beautiful photography.

ALso, I really appreciate that most of the aircraft in Pearl are REAL aircraft. Most assume they are CGI, but they are real.
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Old October 30th, 2001, 11:01 PM   #2
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Pearl Harbor to me was a double-remake of two previous movies... Tora Tora Tora and Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo, with reality stretched at both ends, and a bit of Battle of Britain thrown in for good measure.

According to American Cinematographer and CineFX, the aircraft in Pearl Harbor were a mixture of real planes and CGI.

Frankly, while impressed with the expert technical detail and special effects in PH, I really wondered *why* we needed a remake of that story when there are so many other worthwhile true tales from World War Two waiting to be told.

I'm looking forward to the upcoming movie, can't remember the title right now, about the Navajo code talkers in the Pacific theater of operations. That should be a good one.

I also liked Enemy at the Gates, but it told only one chapter of the book by William T. Craig (chapter 7, specifically -- the book covers so much more than the sniper duel). Good looking movie though, well cast also, in my opinion.
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Last edited by Chris Hurd; October 30th, 2001 at 11:13 PM.
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Old October 31st, 2001, 02:44 AM   #3
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Why remake Pearl Harbor...or retell any story ?

Having just watched (and about to watch again) Tora^3 the story really could use an effects update. Also, while Tora is FAR more accurate historically I find some of the performing relatively flat.

IOW, I think there was, and frankly still is, an opportunity for good moviemaking in the retelling.

Another place where I see an opportunity to remake a story already told is Dune. Frankly I find that neither version is particularly well done. I like the Lynch version better. I don't think much of Storaro's photography in the Sci-Fi series. It is technically excellent but...uninspired.

Don't get me wrong, I agree wholeheartedly there are a LOT of great WW2 stories that can be told cinematically. Heck there are a LOT of stories out there to be told. I hope I get to tell some of them.

WW2 stories have a special meaning to me. More specifically I completely believe that had the Axis powers won I would NEVER have been born. So, even though I wasn't born for 26 years I feel I owe my life to every WW2 vet on the Allied side. It makes it all more poignant to me.

Not every story must be original. Some have a special power and a timeless interest. I feel it is natural for filmmakers to want their crack at the big story. Just like every stage actor wants a crack at Hamlet on Broadway...it is certainly not because it has not been done before.

Finally, despite the movies obvious lacks I see how it stirred real interest in the history around Pearl Harbor, at a time when people seem to feel they have risen above history...that they are above it.

Recent events have proven that we are all very much a part of history...so the movie was timely...in the worst possible way.

Oddly enough, I feel that the current efforts of our military in Afghanistan are analogous to Doolittle's Tokyo Raid...more symbolic than effective.

No, the greater the story the more it must be told.

None of that means I was all that impressed with Pearl...just that I understand the desire to remake it.
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Old November 1st, 2001, 07:32 AM   #4
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I'd like to see the Pearl Harbour story told from the Japanese point of view. No matter what happened afterwards, the attack on Pearl Harbour was one of the greatest tactical victories in modern warfare. I was in the Australian Airforce and I am currently living in Japan so I get to see it from both aspects.

I'd also like to see something about what the world would be like if Germany had won the war. Movies are supposed to be about bring someones imagination to life....I just wonder
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Old November 1st, 2001, 07:39 AM   #5
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Howdy from Texas,

<< I'd like to see the Pearl Harbour story told from the Japanese point of view. >>

One of my biggest complaints about the movie "Pearl Harbor" -- before it was released, the one-sheets and posters were all over the "coming soon" showcases in most movie theaters -- I'd point to one and ask my friends, "what's wrong with this picture."

NO Japanese actors listed on the one-sheet.

However, "Tora Tora Tora" was fairly evenly balanced and told the story from both sides. Some great Japanese actors were in that movie. Like Alexander says above, you watch it these days and the special effects look somewhat dated, but at least there was a substantial Japanese presence.
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Old November 1st, 2001, 07:44 AM   #6
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The few Japanese actors in Pearl Harbor are actually quite famous actors both in the US and here in Japan.

So what about the what if idea Chris, maybe we could do it as a DV Community project
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Old November 1st, 2001, 11:49 PM   #7
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What if Germany Won ??

There is a movie about this situation.

What happens is that in a USAF experiment gone awry an F-117 Stealth fighter with a full weapons load is sent back in time and ends up in German hands in 1939-1940

While the Germans are not able to really use the F-117 itself, they are able to copy some of its advances and can deploy an entirely jet propelled Luftwaffe, one that is impervious to detection by Allied radar systems of that era.

Also, one of the critical "blunders" that Hitler made was not allowing/severely curtailing fighter development as punishment for the failure of the Lufwaffe in the Battle of Britain. Seeing such an advanced US jet aircraft shocked him into doing exactly the opposite and driving German jet development as a priority. See, Hitler believed that the F-117 was a 1939 US warplane, and was urgently trying to catch up.

Not all that is in the movie...I think the movie is based on a book that mentions that stuff. Then again, maybe I made it up. If so...I volunteer as scriptwriter.

Anyway Hitler made dozens of stupid blunders, many in the guise of "punishing" his forces for failure. Like not sending the German armies in Soviet territory winter gear or supplies as "incentive" to win before winter. Like halting jet development, and even halting more advanced propellor aircraft.

So...I would start the victory of Germany in WW2 with an assasination/coup and Erwin Rommel being installed as Fuhrer. That would change a lot. I think Rommel would have stopped the "Final solution" but I am also certain he would not have made some of the fundamental mistakes Hitler made, many of which were opposed by his Generals and Field Marshalls.

The problem with doing this story is that you would be forced to create a tale in a milieu well understood by the moviegoing public.

Also...had Germany held out a mere year longer I am certain they too would have had Atomic weapons. If Britain had fallen...or if D-Day ahd failed to establish a beachead. Only Germany would have had an effective delivery system for this weapon. The V-3 was almost ready, and could reach the Untied States if launched from Germany.

Here is another major issue...part of what hanstrung the Germans as they fought the Americans and Russians was the availability of fuel for their tanks. If their tanks had fuel they easily outmatched the best that the Allies could field. I heard 60:1 kill ratios for the Germans against the US tank forces.

The primary objective of the Soviet Campaign was to secure the Soviet oil fields. Militarily this objective had been accomplished. Really. Instead of moving to consolidate around the objective Hitler chose to instead engage in a bitter and essentially pointless battle for Stalingrad...mostly for prestige. If he had followed his general's advice and secured the oil fields, established air bases there, and supply routes to Central Europe, then just sat out the Winter before finishing Russia...again a different story.

Ugh...the truth is that Germany could have won if any of a number of choices or breaks had gone its way.
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Old November 2nd, 2001, 01:41 AM   #8
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Wow Alexander, I like the Rommel idea. You sound like you poses an awesome imagination and the ability and courage to use it. I wish there were more people like you in the world.

Maybe we could all work on the first total web movie. A joint DV Community production with global contributions. Maybe I'll get a website going and see what we can get.
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