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Awake In The Dark
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Old September 13th, 2004, 12:55 PM   #16
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the problem with the prequels (as a whole trilogy) has been that it kills the "surprise" of the identity darth vader and his relationship to luke skywalker. there's no point to making the prequels in the first place except to milk the franchise for all its worth. does lucas really need a new pair a shoes?

having said that i don't mind all of the changes lucas has made. i really like the new prints that get cleaner and cleaner with each iterative release! hopefully when HD-DVD comes out that'll be the "final edition" but meanwhile we'll have to contend with the SD-DVD edition.

as for bonus materials from the DVD release i'm glad they're including this behind the scenes special on the DVD, on the other hand it's almost like a cop out, just take what someone else has done and slap it on the bonus DVD. sounds to me like most of the bonus material specials.
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Old September 13th, 2004, 01:28 PM   #17
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"the problem with the prequels (as a whole trilogy) has been that it kills the 'surprise' of the identity darth vader and his relationship to luke skywalker."

True enough, if the prequels were meant to come in sequence before the original trilogy; but this story is being told, per classical precedent, in media res rather than ab initio. (See, for example, Homer's Iliad and Odyssey and Milton's Paradise Lost.) In other words, you're supposed to show your children A New Hope and its sequels before The Phantom Menace and its sequels--or, perhaps preferably, truncating the prequels to a summarization!
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Old September 13th, 2004, 01:47 PM   #18
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I think the general feeling from everyone is that the original trilogy was better than anything afterwards. It's usually the case for almost any artist...at least the ones I like.

Look at the Beatles? They did it when they were young, hungry and didn't know any better. Nothing after compares. Also, you can look at many other filmmakers, and artists....lives creep up and take over for people at some point. In that documentry last night Lucas talked about how the Stars Wars thing almost killed him. That usually will bring out something unique that can't be re-produced again later. Unless he wanted to set landminds on the set of future movies! Most artists are fighting for their lives in the beginning of their career. He was, and it shows. Later, he had kids and if you look at his work it reflects that quite simply. He lightened up a lot....to much for most of us.

My thoughts are that Lucas DOES love Star Wars. He must love it because he's making SIX movies about the damn story and dedicated a huge chunk of his life to it! No one on planet earth (or a galaxy far, far away?) would do something beyond ONCE if they didn't love it after it almost killed them the first time. Think about it. He let go and had others take over some roles for a few films, and now he's back in the directors seat. But, he's older...been through different things. It's just possible that the guy isn't the same person he was before.

He said something really interesting last night. He said that the whole Stae Wars story has played itself out in his life. He didn't want corporate crap in his life, but eventually he found himself the leader of the exact thing he ran away from....business.

Here is something really wacked out. But, when he said that I got this weird thought in my head. I literally imagined that in his mind....he's going to fight his own dark side when he completes the final "prequel". He's going to defy business logic and give away every single thing to his fans....all the raw footage! After it's all complete and out there in 2005...he's going to give us the raw footage from all the movies and let us edit our own version of the 6 films!! I know that sounds totally wacked, but I had this weird vision of him doing that and saying that he just wanted his vision out there first! Imagine if he releases all the raw footage in the public domain? That would probably be the coolest thing in the history of anything! All the clips, sound files, scores...everything any film student could ever dream of!

Then I woke up.

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Old September 13th, 2004, 02:11 PM   #19
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<<<-- Originally posted by Yi Fong Yu : the problem with the prequels (as a whole trilogy) has been that it kills the "surprise"...-->>>

Im not sure if this is the issue. Look at films such as Lord of the Rings trilogy. We knew exactly what was going to happen and it rocked. I think the new ones are just bad and cater towards 4 year olds.
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Old September 13th, 2004, 02:33 PM   #20
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i'm glad they're including this behind the scenes special on the DVD, on the other hand it's almost like a cop out, just take what someone else has done and slap it on the bonus DVD. sounds to me like most of the bonus material specials.

You've got that the wrong way around. The special was commissioned specifically for the DVD.

The truncated version was shown on A&E as part of the marketing blitz for the box set. The full special is 50 min. longer and goes into detail about the making of Empire and Jedi as well.

the problem with the prequels (as a whole trilogy) has been that it kills the "surprise" of the identity darth vader and his relationship to luke skywalker.

That presupposes that the Vader/Luke relationship is the only important part of the original trilogy and that the surprise of Empire is the most important piece of drama in the trilogy. In fact, the most important piece of drama occurs at the end of Jedi - when Luke has his confrontation with Vader on Endor and again on the Death Star. With the PT, those dramatic moments are given more power. And if that means a lessening of the surprise of Empire, whatever. I'll take real drama over a gimmick any day.
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Old September 13th, 2004, 03:31 PM   #21
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well there are many who didn't read the book, and there also many fans (like me) that are fanatics but still didn't see all the ends coming. it was quite a surprise when oliphaunts showed up in full battle gear in return of the king! one thing to imagine it another to actually see it! lotr is another total thread =).

as for prequels catering towards someone, then perhaps lucas is getting in touch with his inner child, he's making them for himself as much as for anyone. there are many mythic elements of phantom menace and attack of the clones that are still valid. just as people dumped on matrix reloaded+revolution as big fx fest but fail to see the most philosophical trilogy ever made people have overlooked the mythic/story elements of tpm, aotc and rots.

<<<-- Originally posted by John Hudson :
Im not sure if this is the issue. Look at films such as Lord of the Rings trilogy. We knew exactly what was going to happen and it rocked. I think the new ones are just bad and cater towards 4 year olds. -->>>
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Old September 13th, 2004, 05:22 PM   #22
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I guess the bottomline is that LUCAS can do whatever he wants.

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Old September 13th, 2004, 05:49 PM   #23
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<<<-- Originally posted by John Hudson : I guess the bottomline is that LUCAS can do whatever he wants. -->>>

Of course. But I don't have to respect him for it. This talk about needing to "fix" inconsistencies in the original movie, or "restore" damaged film is just another apology. That film was brilliant and it also said something about its own era, how he dealt with the realities of budgets, etc. It had to stand completely on its own and did so brilliantly. Sure, restore the original colors, etc but don't "improve" it. If they can digitally create whole new scenes surely they can digitally restore a few damaged frames to look as close to the original as needed (if that's even necessary).

And if I understand correctly (not really into all this Star Wars stuff these days), Lucas has blocked release of the original version. Jeez, if you're making a box set then why not include BOTH versions at least?
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Old September 13th, 2004, 07:00 PM   #24
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Man I missed it, looks lik eit's airing again on Sunday. Yet another reason for tivo...

I caught Lucas w/ Charlie Rose the other night. He had some interesting things to say and responded to the added FX criticisms by saying that he did it mainly for himself - that is the way he wanted to the films to be originally. He said it was hard for him to watch the originals because they weren't finished in his eyes - he didn't have the technology to back then to complete them.

On another note, THX 1138 is playing on the big screen in San Francisco. I'm looking forward to catching it.
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Old September 13th, 2004, 07:12 PM   #25
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I just wish he would go back and redo Howard the Duck. I wonder if that turned out the way he wanted! :-) Then again, he was just the producer.
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Old September 13th, 2004, 07:17 PM   #26
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THX-1138 has never been released on DVD and the VHS tape is also out of issue I think. I've suspected this might be due to a planned re-release. Wish they would issue it on DVD - WITHOUT ANY "IMPROVEMENTS"!...
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Old September 13th, 2004, 07:33 PM   #27
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I think that all of the Star Wars movies should be left the way they were originally released because that's how we saw them then and how we know them now. However, just because that's what was released doesn't mean that is what was in George's head at that time, the way he really wanted it. As we all know by now, this is because of various reasons such as budget, deadlines, etc.. How would you like it if you had a vision knowing every aspect of what you wanted to include in the story and you just couldn't do it for the reasons above and/or because technology just wasn't quite there yet? To make things worse, it was released without these elements and that is what we came to know. It is very much like an adopted person growing to know and love the only parents they have ever known and then the biological parents show up and want to be a part of that person's life. There is going to be conflict. Unfortunately for George, we like what we have known for the past 20+ years and he wants to tamper with that. If he is going to do that, then he should give us the option of seeing any version we want to maintain the integrity of our memory and experience.
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Old September 13th, 2004, 07:37 PM   #28
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THX comes out on DVD tomorrow in a 2 DVD
"Director's Cut/Special Edition" with several documentaries and other bonuses. He's also releasing a single disc version titled the Original Theatrical Version but guess what? According to Ain't It Cool News the single disc is the same version as the one found in the 2 DVD collection, only without all the extra stuff. Harry Knowles says that you shouldn't buy this one thinking it is the original version that was in theaters because it looks like that version is "gone, gone, gone."
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Old September 14th, 2004, 08:22 AM   #29
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just came up with another thought.

outside of tv series (like babylon5), there has hardly been many films that have had as many creatures, planets and cultures of the races and vast epic feel of traveling across the galaxy as star wars. i tried very hard to think of one or a series of films but i could not think of any.

the first criterion is that the film has had to be an original work (like star wars) and not based off of tv like star trek films are rooted from its tv roots. also films based on books (like lord of the rings) don't count.

the second criterion is that it cannot come from lucas in any way shape or form (like willow, labrynth, etc.).

perhaps this is one of the formulas of success of star wars?
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Old September 14th, 2004, 11:43 AM   #30
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If they can digitally create whole new scenes surely they can digitally restore a few damaged frames to look as close to the original as needed (if that's even necessary).

Not always you can't. If the negative is gone the negative is gone and all the digital technology in the world won't bring it back.
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