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BlackMagic Cinema Camera
EF & MFT lens mount / 2.5K CinemaDNG RAW


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Old April 17th, 2012, 11:18 PM   #76
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Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!

I think there is a mistake in their specs. ZF is Zeiss designation for Nikon compatible lenses, while ZEis for CAnon. Does anybody know if it is a mistake or they mean something else?
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Old April 18th, 2012, 12:07 AM   #77
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Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!

<<No offense intended Jacques but you couldn't know if RED or anyone else is producing better images because we haven't seen any comparisons or any footage from a finished camera.>>

None taken Jim. You are correct that we have yet to see what the *delivered product* can do. That said, my tri-corder tells me that the smaller sensor (rumored as Panasonic) will not be quite as state of the art as Red's or Canons larger and latest offerings. And after all, this is BMD's very first camera. Experience matters.

At the CML party, only an hour ago, one industry expert offered the following cautions.

1) The power input is not a locking plug. True that, but not a deal killer for me.
2) The HDSDI BNC, as is typical with BMD, is motherboard mounted and very prone to fail. This complaint has a long history as a major weakness, and yet, has never been addressed.
3) BMD support historically has been problematic on all levels.

The conversation turned to AJA vs BMD. AJA video has a great and well deserved rep. of being solid and reliable vs. BMD. We both have high praise for AJA.

Next question: So when does AJA video come out with their camera :-D

The times they are a changin'!
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Old April 18th, 2012, 01:53 AM   #78
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Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!

Just read a report by someone who's had a play with the Blackmagic camera and rolling shutter may be an issue. I guess how big will depend on the type of productions you do, but it's something to take into consideration.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 02:22 AM   #79
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Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!

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Originally Posted by Jacques Mersereau View Post
My hat's off to NAB's dark horse winner, Black Magic Design, who in my opinion deserve the award for Best New Product and best DEAL of NAB 2012.
Retaining the award that they won in 2011 with the HyperDeck Shuttle which didn't quite live up to the initial jaw dropping enthusiasm when considered in the cold light of day. This may also be true of this product that on paper looks sensational for the price & unlike Scarlet (which is resembles in many ways) it looks like there is a strong likelihood that they will deliver on time at the promised price & specification.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 02:34 AM   #80
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Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!

Wouldn't the Bowen 8mm/f3,5 lens be an answer to wide angle lens for this camera? It would equal to 20mm at the full frame. Quite wide, insn't it? I mean, it is not a L lens, but still... at only 400 $.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 06:18 AM   #81
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Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!

Daniel, isn't the Bowen the same as the Samyang? This is a fish eye lens, but yes, it should give very wide coverage on the new camera. The Peleng 8mm fish eye was a popular cheapish option for 16mm and would work too. Actually doing some homework last night, m42 lenses seem to be quite adaptable to the EF mount. There are some pretty awful lenses in this mount, but also a few corkers for not much money.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 07:35 AM   #82
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Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!

My point exactly. So lack of desirable extream wide angle issue can be easily abridged, and - at least for me - I have a couple of 5DMk2 so I can always use them for desired extream wide anlge shots. So, this BM marvell is for me just what I needed, with no additional lens I have to purchase. Just a cheap 8 mm Bowen. And look what happens with my modest 200 mm tele lens: all of a sudden I have a 500 mm lens!

Furthermore, 2,5 K is more then enough for the work I do, and I think BM targeted exactly this niche of 5D owners with tons of Canon glass. As for me, I will sell my Sony EX3, no second thoughts about it. And no additional bag required, it will fit in my existing bag just fine, making my trips so much easier. What a thrill.....
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Old April 18th, 2012, 09:35 AM   #83
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Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!

I agree with you Nigel 100%. But even if the BMD camera turns out to be problematic due to rolling shutter, weak build or whatever, it has already shaken up the industry and will help drive the competition.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 11:26 AM   #84
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Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!

The new Zeiss 15mm lens would like quite nice on this camera. Not uber wide with this crop factor but certainly wide enough for a lot of shots. You then have a lens costing as much as the camera of course but good glass is always a sound investment.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 11:56 AM   #85
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Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!

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Originally Posted by Walter Brokx View Post
Looks interesting.
It expands the choice we have even more.
Super16 and raw (at 2,5K) isn't available yet, is it?

The cropfactor will probably make this camera interesting for wildlife-projects.

I think the internal battery is a weird choice. That means you need to add extra stuff to your riggs if you need to shoot for more than 1,5 hour.
Yes, the weird and weak Part is the battery, if it just was a normal battery. Than this would be nice for wildlife.

For wide shots maybe the Sigma 4,5/2.8 will work and for normal shot the Sigma 20/1.8 may be good.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 01:52 PM   #86
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Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!

The battery is not weird at all. Think of it as a built in bonus. Others are describing it like the hyperdeck line of BM products where you use an external battery system and the internal battery is there to power the camera while you switch batteries. This way you can power the camera non stop when you change batteries. It isn't really intended to power the camera on its own for run and gun shooting although you could use it for that in short bursts if you really wan to.

When the camera sales are huge I would expect a massive amount of power options for the camera. The 12v to 30v pretty much leaves the adapter open to a lot of battery options.

Personally I do not consider the EF lens options to be bad at all. A lot of people wish it supported M43 lenses but there are only a handful of decent M43 lenses out there and most of the great ones are around 20mm or 24mm. This 24mm will be the same as 24mm of a EF lens so I think Ef lenses actually cover the camera very well. A lot of M43 shooters are used to working with a lack of ultra wide lenses and typically use old Nikon or FD lenses of 24mm or 28mm at f2.0 and f2.8. The widest decent lens I know of for M43 is the Olympus 12mm f2.0 lens. In fact I think there is only one lens that is wider and it is very slow. On the long end forget about M43. There are a few but they are slow. There are 10x more options for EF and you can buy faster zooms which is something that just does not exist for M43. I love M43 but I really was shocked at just how many good EF lenses out there that will work the same or better then what we have as M43 options.

While the sensor is slightly smaller then M43 it is very close and in the real world we can expect about the same crop factor give or take a mm or two.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 06:21 PM   #87
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Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!

Here's a new clip. How do you like the dynamic range? Depth of field? Detail?

Another Blackmagic Clip | johnbrawley
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Old April 18th, 2012, 07:38 PM   #88
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Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!

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Originally Posted by Emmanuel Plakiotis View Post
I think there is a mistake in their specs. ZF is Zeiss designation for Nikon compatible lenses, while ZEis for CAnon. Does anybody know if it is a mistake or they mean something else?
They keep saying this, even in their interviews at NAB... things like "and we have ZF mount so you can use Zeiss lenses" - you're quite right, either they are confused and mean ZE or they have a Nikon mount (presumably the former).

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Originally Posted by Markus Nord View Post
Yes, the weird and weak Part is the battery, if it just was a normal battery. Than this would be nice for wildlife.
The battery, the ridiculous side handles they're demonstrating the cameras with, the form factor, and other little choices (hot shoe, audio mount anyone?) indicate computer wizz kids have cobbled together an - abiet spec wise very impressive - camera very quickly with little consideration given to operators.

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Originally Posted by Thomas Smet View Post
Personally I do not consider the EF lens options to be bad at all. A lot of people wish it supported M43 lenses but there are only a handful of decent M43 lenses out there and most of the great ones are around 20mm or 24mm.
Can't agree with you here Thomas. Already available from Panny/Oly are excellent 12, 14, 17, 20, 25 and 45mm primes, and a 75mm 1.8 recently announced. Also lots of nice third party primes, and the ability to easily mount old Nikkors, Leica glass etc. Not only is the focal range much better suited, m43 glass is tiny!!

EF will do... and probably makes sense from a marketing point of view, but m43 is a much better fit IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glen Vandermolen View Post
Here's a new clip. How do you like the dynamic range? Depth of field? Detail?

Another Blackmagic Clip | johnbrawley
Well, I have very strong reservations about the form-factor, build and usability of the camera - but one can have no issue with the price and this shot does look gorgeous ideed! I imagine there will be a lot of people (like me) who wince at certain design choices, but are intrigued anyway because hey, 13 stops dynamic range for $3K ($2K for me, as I was about to buy Resolve anyway).
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Old April 18th, 2012, 08:09 PM   #89
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Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!

It's not 2.5K resolution, it's 2.5K bayer pixels so the real resolution will be roughly full HD. The BlackMagic sensor is 8.8 mm x 15.6 mm with a 17.9mm diagonal which is a little bigger than super16, so I make the crop factor about 2.5. As your tied to the ZE/EF mount, getting any kind of wide FOV is going to be very hard. A 18mm lens would represent a "standard" lens. For a good wide angle you'll need something in the 8 to 10mm region. Great for wildlife shooters! Sensitivity should be comparable to an EX1 as the pixel size should be pretty similar.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 09:29 PM   #90
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Re: New! Blackmagic 2.5K Raw cinema camera!

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Originally Posted by Josh Dahlberg View Post

Can't agree with you here Thomas. Already available from Panny/Oly are excellent 12, 14, 17, 20, 25 and 45mm primes, and a 75mm 1.8 recently announced. Also lots of nice third party primes, and the ability to easily mount old Nikkors, Leica glass etc. Not only is the focal range much better suited, m43 glass is tiny!!

EF will do... and probably makes sense from a marketing point of view, but m43 is a much better fit IMO.
.
EF has a 13mm 14mm and 15mm at f2.8. Maybe not super faster but currently the only M4/3 lens that wide that is faster is the Olympus 12mm at f2.0. The other options are f2.5 and f2.8 at those widths. So basically the same options.

EF has a 20mm at f1.8 or virtually the same as the Panasonic 20mm f1.7.

EF has a lot of options at 24mm that go down to f1.4 so equal or better to all the M4/3 options other then the Voigtlander at that focal range.

EF has a lot of zoom lenses at a constant f2.8. M4/3 does not have a single constant zoom lens and the fastest you can get is f3.5 on the wide end.

EF has plenty of 35mm and 50mm f1.8 lenses. M4/3 only has the Olympus 45mm at F1.8.

EF has many f1.8 or f2.0 primes up to I think 135mm.

So other then the Oly 12mm and the Voigtlander 25mm which is just a hair faster every M4/3 lens has a match with EF. There are at least double the amount of options in almost every focal range with EF compared to M4/3.

The only advantage M4/3 has is that some of the lenses are cheaper and two lenses at equal focal lengths are a bit faster.
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