Is Black Magic Giving Up on Fixing the BMC Audio Issues at DVinfo.net

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Old August 2nd, 2013, 03:23 PM   #1
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Is Black Magic Giving Up on Fixing the BMC Audio Issues

For many months Black Magic Cinema camera users have been expressing dissatisfaction at the user sites with the audio capabilities of the EF and MFT models. It is unclear if the same issues are going to be found in the newer offerings. Today's news letter from Grant Petty was missing any mention of correction.

These camera's were advertised to have professional level sound recording capability, but the current set up is noisy, and missing response at lower frequencies. There is also no reliable way, except by purchase of additional equipment, to monitor what the camera is recording. It lacks metering. Some are indicating that you can add an external meter to you SDI out-- clearly not what users who bought professional sound recording were anticipating when pre-orders were made.

It seems like the fix could easily be made. We have seen where Magic Lantern people have done it with DSLR's. But from Black Magic there is stone cold silence. This leave us with only speculation as to what will happen.

Todays news letter from Grant Petty said:

"There are some new features in the software for the Pocket Cinema Camera. You can now focus by pushing the focus button when using an active MFT lens. This makes it very easy to accurately focus. The focus peaking feature is still there and you enable it by double pressing the focus button. The focus zoom feature is enabled by double pressing the OK button.

There will be an update for the 2.5K Blackmagic Cinema Camera soon that will also add these features, plus new de-bayer processing that will improve the cameras sharpness when shooting non RAW files."

Exciting that new changes there may be coming, but what about audio. Nothing, No acknowledgment it is being addressed, and no reference at all that anything is being done. The total lack of addressing multiple complaints leads me to one of three conclusions:

1. Black Magic either can't understand or refuses to understand the needs of the Black Magic customer,

or

2. The Black Magic design (and specifically audio components) aren't capable of the sound promised

or

3. There isn't sufficient computing capacity on board to provide the resources to add what is needed.

Now, with the camera price being cut by one-third one has to wonder whether Black Magic has given up on adding much more to make this camera what it was advertised to be. .
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 05:08 PM   #2
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Re: Is Black Magic Giving Up on Fixing the BMC Audio Issues

:-( I think i have run out of cameras to possibly buy now.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 05:52 PM   #3
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Re: Is Black Magic Giving Up on Fixing the BMC Audio Issues

This camera is excellent for image production. You can work around the sound issues by adding monitor with sound monitoring capability. The new price is terrific, especially if Resolve still comes with it.

The issue with sound is a matter of a promise made by the manufacturer that wasn't delivered, in my opinion. That doesn't mean what's else is there is bad.
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Old August 3rd, 2013, 03:02 PM   #4
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Re: Is Black Magic Giving Up on Fixing the BMC Audio Issues

The issue is not so much the lack of VU meters but that they ruined the sound Ina frm ware update and never fixed it, poor levels and quality.
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Old August 4th, 2013, 09:07 AM   #5
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Re: Is Black Magic Giving Up on Fixing the BMC Audio Issues

I've stuck with the 1.2 firmware and use a RiggyMicro pre-amp. A little audio sweetening in post and good to go until they get this issue really fixed. Juiced Link also has a new pre-amp specifically designed for the BMCC. I wished that BM would hire Juiced Link's Robert to consult for them to improve the audio issues.
As Chris stated, the image portion is just fantastic. To me, the BMCC image far outweighs any shortcomings that can easily be worked around.
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Old August 4th, 2013, 11:42 AM   #6
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Re: Is Black Magic Giving Up on Fixing the BMC Audio Issues

John,
*******To me, the BMCC image far outweighs any shortcomings that can easily be worked around. *********


That can be said of most cameras in this arena Same for the Canon 5D.

What people thought they were getting with this camera is a camera with solid audio capabilities unlike a the 5D etc.

It's about not getting what was promised.

Image quality and audio quality are separate issues. WhileIi get your point no client would say the video outweighs the crappy audio.
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Old August 11th, 2013, 11:03 PM   #7
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Re: Is Black Magic Giving Up on Fixing the BMC Audio Issues

I am considering buying this cam and still wonder about any problems, such as audio. Has anything been addressed by BM? Has anything been done? Is there any mention of what is in the new firmware soon to come for this cam? I do not want work-arounds like being told to use a second audio system cus it the pro way. BS. I have 40 years of very high pro experience and I am aware of exactly what is involved, Especially audio that is very simple compared to video. BTW, professional only means you get paid for your work yet so many people on forums like to throw the P word as if drawing a line and placing others below them for not being a pro. Cus they say so. Hah, remember the TV show Dinosaurs. There was only one big employer called We Say So. :-)

I am now a one man band most of the time and in camera audio should be just fine for my needs. Nat sound with b roll, some interviews with two lavs and maybe once in awhile some boom shotgun instead of two lavs. I know, one man band with a boom shotgun? My wife can easily do the boom. :-)
Why have balanced inputs if we can't appreciate a quality audio!

Alex
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Old August 11th, 2013, 11:07 PM   #8
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Re: Is Black Magic Giving Up on Fixing the BMC Audio Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos View Post
For many months Black Magic Cinema camera users have been expressing dissatisfaction at the user sites with the audio capabilities of the EF and MFT models. It is unclear if the same issues are going to be found in the newer offerings. Today's news letter from Grant Petty was missing any mention of correction.

These camera's were advertised to have professional level sound recording capability, but the current set up is noisy, and missing response at lower frequencies. There is also no reliable way, except by purchase of additional equipment, to monitor what the camera is recording. It lacks metering. Some are indicating that you can add an external meter to you SDI out-- clearly not what users who bought professional sound recording were anticipating when pre-orders were made.

It seems like the fix could easily be made. We have seen where Magic Lantern people have done it with DSLR's. But from Black Magic there is stone cold silence. This leave us with only speculation as to what will happen.

Todays news letter from Grant Petty said:

"There are some new features in the software for the Pocket Cinema Camera. You can now focus by pushing the focus button when using an active MFT lens. This makes it very easy to accurately focus. The focus peaking feature is still there and you enable it by double pressing the focus button. The focus zoom feature is enabled by double pressing the OK button.

There will be an update for the 2.5K Blackmagic Cinema Camera soon that will also add these features, plus new de-bayer processing that will improve the cameras sharpness when shooting non RAW files."

Exciting that new changes there may be coming, but what about audio. Nothing, No acknowledgment it is being addressed, and no reference at all that anything is being done. The total lack of addressing multiple complaints leads me to one of three conclusions:

1. Black Magic either can't understand or refuses to understand the needs of the Black Magic customer,

or

2. The Black Magic design (and specifically audio components) aren't capable of the sound promised

or

3. There isn't sufficient computing capacity on board to provide the resources to add what is needed.

Now, with the camera price being cut by one-third one has to wonder whether Black Magic has given up on adding much more to make this camera what it was advertised to be. .
Chris, I think the guy at BM who designed the camera with no door for changing batteries also worked on designing the audio section. :-) I guess it is hardware and they want to avoid a major recall to fix the problem, so there is no comment from them.

Alex
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Old August 11th, 2013, 11:15 PM   #9
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Re: Is Black Magic Giving Up on Fixing the BMC Audio Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos View Post
This camera is excellent for image production. You can work around the sound issues by adding monitor with sound monitoring capability. The new price is terrific, especially if Resolve still comes with it.

The issue with sound is a matter of a promise made by the manufacturer that wasn't delivered, in my opinion. That doesn't mean what's else is there is bad.
I should not and do not want to add more gear. I buy a car, it has air conditioning in the cost and brochure, I want the air conditioner to work. Damn it!

Alex
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Old August 11th, 2013, 11:29 PM   #10
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Re: Is Black Magic Giving Up on Fixing the BMC Audio Issues

If these cameras worked to everyone's expectations, wouldn't it would cost many times more than what you paid for?
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Old August 11th, 2013, 11:34 PM   #11
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Re: Is Black Magic Giving Up on Fixing the BMC Audio Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Richard View Post
I've stuck with the 1.2 firmware and use a RiggyMicro pre-amp. A little audio sweetening in post and good to go until they get this issue really fixed. Juiced Link also has a new pre-amp specifically designed for the BMCC. I wished that BM would hire Juiced Link's Robert to consult for them to improve the audio issues.
As Chris stated, the image portion is just fantastic. To me, the BMCC image far outweighs any shortcomings that can easily be worked around.
Sounds like a new movie I should make. Small company, Juicedlink, buys out an engineer over talk at a sleazy bar in Australia. They agree to a fixed amount of money in return for ruining the audio in the BMCC's with firmware updates. That way Juicedlink can sell more of their products to workaround any problems the customers might have. That pisses off customers who don't want to buy more gear. They unite and during the close of the day in darkness with torches in their hands, they prepare to attack BM HQ's. Grant slowly crawls out from underneath his desk after his secretary pleads with him to please go outside and speak to the angry mob. Make them stop all the violence and threats. He cries out, "I can't. I am afraid. I can't fix their audio." She yells at him, "afraid? You don't know afraid until I tell your wife about all the sex we have had behind her back for the last four years." He thinks long and hard. Finally he agrees if she promises to never tells his wife or threatens him again."

A few minutes later, the big 20 foot doors at the front of BM HQ's slowly creek open and Grant walks out slowly with his head down. The mob comes to dead silence as one of them yells out, "It's him. He's come out." Slowly, he speaks with a trembling voice, "I have come here as your friend, not your enemy".

Alex
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Old August 11th, 2013, 11:35 PM   #12
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Re: Is Black Magic Giving Up on Fixing the BMC Audio Issues

That's kind of a backwards way of looking at it.

The value is set by the manufacturer, its worth what they say it is if it delivers on the promises made in their marketing materials, its worth nothing if it doesn't.

We used to develop a lot of technology for the entertainment industry and our motto was 'underwhelm, over deliver.'

Its surprising how difficult it is for companies to accomplish that.
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Old August 11th, 2013, 11:40 PM   #13
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Re: Is Black Magic Giving Up on Fixing the BMC Audio Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Kawamoto View Post
If these cameras worked to everyone's expectations, wouldn't it would cost many times more than what you paid for?
hmmm, I bought a new 8 cylinder car. I drive it home late after they just close their business. On the way home i feel the power is too low. I have a friend who works on cars come over and he tells me they only made it so 4 cylinders work. Well, then I guess it's okay cus I should have paid more money is your of thinking??

Alex
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Old August 11th, 2013, 11:42 PM   #14
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Re: Is Black Magic Giving Up on Fixing the BMC Audio Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Spaulding View Post
That's kind of a backwards way of looking at it.

The value is set by the manufacturer, its worth what they say it is if it delivers on the promises made in their marketing materials, its worth nothing if it doesn't.

We used to develop a lot of technology for the entertainment industry and our motto was 'underwhelm, over deliver.'

Its surprising how difficult it is for companies to accomplish that.
Chuck, are we talking about the same things or are you addressing some one else on here? I thought it was said they ruined the audio from a firmware update.

Alex
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Old August 11th, 2013, 11:45 PM   #15
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Re: Is Black Magic Giving Up on Fixing the BMC Audio Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Kawamoto View Post
If these cameras worked to everyone's expectations, wouldn't it would cost many times more than what you paid for?
Audio is so simple and small which costs next to nothing. Maybe two chips, give or take, inside at the most. We have good audio in many devices these days in tiny packages.

Alex
Hey Warren, how do you like Honolulu? I used to live in Hawaii Kai. Loved it there.
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