Bmpcc sold at 50% discount, is it still worth buying?

Larry Secrest · May 2nd, 2015, 04:44 AM

Fair enough.

Larry Secrest · May 2nd, 2015, 02:20 PM

I guess I made an ass of myself
Look at this:

Shot with a BMPCC
https://news.creativecow.net/story/878310

Craig Seeman · May 3rd, 2015, 10:36 AM

Larry thanks. Interesting article at that other site.

From the article:
“Another big reason for using the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera is its deep depth of field."

One of the advantages of MFT is that one can have deeper depth of field using Lumix or Olympus lenses or Nikon lenses with "dumb" adaptors. At the same time there's Metabones SpeedBooster to give you much closer (but not quite) shallow DOF potential with Nikon and Canon lenses. IMHO having the deeper DOF (and with lighter Lumix lenses that also have Image Stabilization) makes it a serviceable "run and gun-ish" documentary camera (granted some disadvantages). It's small size is a plus when you need to be discreet.

"Wiggins noted that the auto focus and peaking focus features on the Pocket Cinema Camera were useful when setting up shots. Also, to quickly get the aperture ready, he used the auto aperture button and then clicked up one extra stop for a perfect aperture."

I find auto focus slow though and manual focus with peaking to be reasonably fast. Note that the latest firmware now allows peaking to stay enabled when shutting off and turning the camera back on. This is important when turning off and on to conserve internal battery time.

Some use auto aperture (Lumix lenses support this) as a way to get close and then adjust as he does. Many use an Expose To The Right method (hit zebra and back off slightly) but be aware that can create extra grading work from shot to shot. It's best to expose possibly using the hottest area you want to protect in a scene and leave it for those shots. That might be to protect sky/clouds in a daytime outdoor shot. BTW I get burned by this a bit in a recent shoot because the scene started in overcast and the sun came out in the middle of shooting. Give yourself headroom when shooting outdoors with moving clouds.

"Wiggins recorded all footage in camera as ProRes so he could easily check the rushes while in the field and edit and grade the footage effortlessly on his MacBook Pro."

You'd be surprised how far you can push ProRes. cDNG really isn't necessary but for the most demanding circumstances. ProRes is amazing compared to 4:2:0 H.264. I'd only shoot cDNG if I was doing a broadcast TV Spot or when I know I'd have to relight a scene very radically. In fact I'm often shooting ProRes LT for corporate style work.

"I hope to move up to the next step and purchase one of the 4K models"

And now with the Ursa Mini coming out Blackmagic really has a 4K with an ENG style body. Only thing missing is built in ND... but for ENG and Doco working I may not be switching lenses all that much so using a good VariND filter goes a long way. I also think VariND gives you much finer control when it's imperative to maintain an aperture setting for DOF.

Larry Secrest · May 3rd, 2015, 02:25 PM

Yes, it's amazing, he didn't even shoot that film in raw, just prores!

Larry Secrest · May 9th, 2015, 04:50 AM

Gary,

You said: "However, they will notice the rest as part of the overall image, even if they can't put their finger on what is wrong. They will just know that something is not as good as it used to be."

Even though I believe that filmmakers should thrive to create the best photography they can, I'm wondering if the people who will go see Tangerine are going to think that something is wrong with it because it was shot with an Iphone?
Watch the Red Band Trailer for 'Tangerine', the Sundance Hit Filmed on an iPhone 5s

That story doesn't interest me in anyway, but I'm wondering how many viewers will be bothered by the cinematography?

Gary Huff · May 9th, 2015, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Secrest

I'm wondering if the people who will go see Tangerine are going to think that something is wrong with it because it was shot with an Iphone?

If they like the film, they will overlook the fact that it looks like those TV shows shot on early digital cameras. And let's be clear here: the use of the iPhone was for a much smaller footprint in Los Angeles, which is notorious for clamping down on filming without permits.

Noa Put · May 9th, 2015, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Secrest

Even though I believe that filmmakers should thrive to create the best photography they can, I'm wondering if the people who will go see Tangerine are going to think that something is wrong with it because it was shot with an Iphone?

I would watch any Iphone shot movie that has a great story over a movie like "run all night" which was shot on a Arriflex with Liam Neeson which I saw recently and made me fell asleep twice (seriously) in the cinema and the only reason why I watched it out to the end was because my daughter woke me up me twice.

IQ is not the only important thing but I do have to say I much prefer the look a Arri or Alexa or whatever real filmcamera can achieve, it's the way they can make the color look, the way the camera can deal with high contrast scenes, the way it never seems to clip any highlights. It's a certain look that is hard to explain but when you see it you know it is not shot with a camera that any of us will ever be able to use, and even if we would, we would probably not know how to grade the footage in a way it will get the "cinematic" look everyone seems to be achieving.

The bmpcc can give give you a glimpse of such a look but only in the hands of a experienced shooter and colorist, that might explain why I see so many films that just look weird and with only a handfull that give me that "feeling" I get when I watch a film in the cinema.

I"m sure I won't be getting anything close to that special look but I certainly will be trying :)

Larry Secrest · May 9th, 2015, 11:27 AM

I"m sure I won't be getting anything close to that special look but I certainly will be trying :)

Practice!

Jim Andrada · May 23rd, 2015, 11:53 AM

Hi Noa

Just wondering how you're doing with the BMPCC

Noa Put · May 23rd, 2015, 12:18 PM

Haven"t had the time to shoot anything with it, I have some projects with a deadline which I have to finish first and right after that I plan to take it out again.

Larry Secrest · May 23rd, 2015, 02:13 PM

A neighbor has a BMCC and I tried it on his girlfriend as she walked in the neighborhood, which is the woman in the clip. I've never played with Resolve before this and don't own a BMC myself. This is my first try with the cam and the software.
Down rez to 1080p show in raw.
I'm glad I've tried it and frankly considering that I don't think it's looking great I understand I have a looong way to go learning how to process the BMC footage if I ever decide to get one myself. Frankly unless I was going to shoot a feature length narrative I don't think I'll bother with one of those BMC ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEJ9...ature=youtu.be

Jim Andrada · May 23rd, 2015, 03:02 PM

I got Resolve when I got the BMCC. I think the hardest part of using it is that it doesn't act like "normal" PC Software - probably due to it's roots as a stand a dedicated workstation. I haven't updated to 12 yet and it might be better in that regard.The simple color correction isn't that hard, and I think you can do it in most good NLE's now.

Or shoot in Video (instead of "film" mode) to start out.

I rather like mine but there's no way it's a hand held camera without investing in a cage with a shoulder mount extension etc at a minimum.

Larry Secrest · May 23rd, 2015, 06:07 PM

Definitely not a hand held cam.
Now be honest and I won't take it personally, what do you think of the footage?

Jim Andrada · May 24th, 2015, 02:53 PM

Hi Larry

Well (and I'm far from an expert and most of my usage is locked off on a tripod as an overview camera for classical orchestra recording)

1) It was handheld = shaky. Stabilizing in post would help a lot if you cut out the shakiest parts. Of course a shoulder mount would help too.

2) It's still pretty flat - I think it can use more work in Resolve (or equivalent) to bring up the color/contrast. I see enough distinct shadows and blue sky in the clip to think it wasn't as overcast/flatly lit as the clip would suggest. Of course I could be wrong (as usual!!!)

I'n still in the early stages with Resolve myself - I think so far the best tutorials I've found were by Warren Eagles. I haven't seen one for Resolve 12 yet, - still watching the Resolve 10 tuts and they're damned good.

Larry Secrest · May 27th, 2015, 04:23 AM

Jim,
Yes, it is flat. But I guess in my mind film is flatter than video. But yes, I have a huge amount of work to do it I want to get the best out of that cam. I still don't own it, but I'm going to have the chance to use footage from my neighbor's cam and play with it.
Here's the last attempt:

Is that better?

May 2nd, 2015, 04:44 AM	#46
Larry Secrest Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bethesda, MD Posts: 404	Re: Bmpcc sold at 50% discount, is it still worth buying? Fair enough.

May 2nd, 2015, 02:20 PM	#47
Larry Secrest Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bethesda, MD Posts: 404	Re: Bmpcc sold at 50% discount, is it still worth buying? I guess I made an ass of myself Look at this: Inside the Belly of a Dragon Trailer - YouTube Shot with a BMPCC https://news.creativecow.net/story/878310

May 3rd, 2015, 10:36 AM	#48
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Re: Bmpcc sold at 50% discount, is it still worth buying? Larry thanks. Interesting article at that other site. From the article: “Another big reason for using the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera is its deep depth of field." One of the advantages of MFT is that one can have deeper depth of field using Lumix or Olympus lenses or Nikon lenses with "dumb" adaptors. At the same time there's Metabones SpeedBooster to give you much closer (but not quite) shallow DOF potential with Nikon and Canon lenses. IMHO having the deeper DOF (and with lighter Lumix lenses that also have Image Stabilization) makes it a serviceable "run and gun-ish" documentary camera (granted some disadvantages). It's small size is a plus when you need to be discreet. "Wiggins noted that the auto focus and peaking focus features on the Pocket Cinema Camera were useful when setting up shots. Also, to quickly get the aperture ready, he used the auto aperture button and then clicked up one extra stop for a perfect aperture." I find auto focus slow though and manual focus with peaking to be reasonably fast. Note that the latest firmware now allows peaking to stay enabled when shutting off and turning the camera back on. This is important when turning off and on to conserve internal battery time. Some use auto aperture (Lumix lenses support this) as a way to get close and then adjust as he does. Many use an Expose To The Right method (hit zebra and back off slightly) but be aware that can create extra grading work from shot to shot. It's best to expose possibly using the hottest area you want to protect in a scene and leave it for those shots. That might be to protect sky/clouds in a daytime outdoor shot. BTW I get burned by this a bit in a recent shoot because the scene started in overcast and the sun came out in the middle of shooting. Give yourself headroom when shooting outdoors with moving clouds. "Wiggins recorded all footage in camera as ProRes so he could easily check the rushes while in the field and edit and grade the footage effortlessly on his MacBook Pro." You'd be surprised how far you can push ProRes. cDNG really isn't necessary but for the most demanding circumstances. ProRes is amazing compared to 4:2:0 H.264. I'd only shoot cDNG if I was doing a broadcast TV Spot or when I know I'd have to relight a scene very radically. In fact I'm often shooting ProRes LT for corporate style work. "I hope to move up to the next step and purchase one of the 4K models" And now with the Ursa Mini coming out Blackmagic really has a 4K with an ENG style body. Only thing missing is built in ND... but for ENG and Doco working I may not be switching lenses all that much so using a good VariND filter goes a long way. I also think VariND gives you much finer control when it's imperative to maintain an aperture setting for DOF. Last edited by Craig Seeman; May 4th, 2015 at 09:11 AM.

May 3rd, 2015, 02:25 PM	#49
Larry Secrest Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bethesda, MD Posts: 404	Re: Bmpcc sold at 50% discount, is it still worth buying? Yes, it's amazing, he didn't even shoot that film in raw, just prores!

May 9th, 2015, 04:50 AM	#50
Larry Secrest Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bethesda, MD Posts: 404	Re: Bmpcc sold at 50% discount, is it still worth buying? Gary, You said: "However, they will notice the rest as part of the overall image, even if they can't put their finger on what is wrong. They will just know that something is not as good as it used to be." Even though I believe that filmmakers should thrive to create the best photography they can, I'm wondering if the people who will go see Tangerine are going to think that something is wrong with it because it was shot with an Iphone? Watch the Red Band Trailer for 'Tangerine', the Sundance Hit Filmed on an iPhone 5s That story doesn't interest me in anyway, but I'm wondering how many viewers will be bothered by the cinematography?

May 9th, 2015, 11:27 AM	#53
Larry Secrest Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bethesda, MD Posts: 404	Re: Bmpcc sold at 50% discount, is it still worth buying? I"m sure I won't be getting anything close to that special look but I certainly will be trying :) Practice!

May 23rd, 2015, 11:53 AM	#54
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	Re: Bmpcc sold at 50% discount, is it still worth buying? Hi Noa Just wondering how you're doing with the BMPCC

May 23rd, 2015, 12:18 PM	#55
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,509	Re: Bmpcc sold at 50% discount, is it still worth buying? Haven"t had the time to shoot anything with it, I have some projects with a deadline which I have to finish first and right after that I plan to take it out again.

May 23rd, 2015, 02:13 PM	#56
Larry Secrest Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bethesda, MD Posts: 404	Re: Bmpcc sold at 50% discount, is it still worth buying? A neighbor has a BMCC and I tried it on his girlfriend as she walked in the neighborhood, which is the woman in the clip. I've never played with Resolve before this and don't own a BMC myself. This is my first try with the cam and the software. Down rez to 1080p show in raw. I'm glad I've tried it and frankly considering that I don't think it's looking great I understand I have a looong way to go learning how to process the BMC footage if I ever decide to get one myself. Frankly unless I was going to shoot a feature length narrative I don't think I'll bother with one of those BMC ever. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEJ9...ature=youtu.be

May 23rd, 2015, 03:02 PM	#57
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	Re: Bmpcc sold at 50% discount, is it still worth buying? I got Resolve when I got the BMCC. I think the hardest part of using it is that it doesn't act like "normal" PC Software - probably due to it's roots as a stand a dedicated workstation. I haven't updated to 12 yet and it might be better in that regard.The simple color correction isn't that hard, and I think you can do it in most good NLE's now. Or shoot in Video (instead of "film" mode) to start out. I rather like mine but there's no way it's a hand held camera without investing in a cage with a shoulder mount extension etc at a minimum.

May 23rd, 2015, 06:07 PM	#58
Larry Secrest Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bethesda, MD Posts: 404	Re: Bmpcc sold at 50% discount, is it still worth buying? Definitely not a hand held cam. Now be honest and I won't take it personally, what do you think of the footage?

May 24th, 2015, 02:53 PM	#59
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	Re: Bmpcc sold at 50% discount, is it still worth buying? Hi Larry Well (and I'm far from an expert and most of my usage is locked off on a tripod as an overview camera for classical orchestra recording) 1) It was handheld = shaky. Stabilizing in post would help a lot if you cut out the shakiest parts. Of course a shoulder mount would help too. 2) It's still pretty flat - I think it can use more work in Resolve (or equivalent) to bring up the color/contrast. I see enough distinct shadows and blue sky in the clip to think it wasn't as overcast/flatly lit as the clip would suggest. Of course I could be wrong (as usual!!!) I'n still in the early stages with Resolve myself - I think so far the best tutorials I've found were by Warren Eagles. I haven't seen one for Resolve 12 yet, - still watching the Resolve 10 tuts and they're damned good.

May 27th, 2015, 04:23 AM	#60
Larry Secrest Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bethesda, MD Posts: 404	Re: Bmpcc sold at 50% discount, is it still worth buying? Jim, Yes, it is flat. But I guess in my mind film is flatter than video. But yes, I have a huge amount of work to do it I want to get the best out of that cam. I still don't own it, but I'm going to have the chance to use footage from my neighbor's cam and play with it. Here's the last attempt: Test with Betty - YouTube Is that better?