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Old December 12th, 2007, 10:05 PM   #1
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question for those with HV20 and blu-ray

Hi all,

I have been wondering -

Blu-ray players provide 1080p footage as I understand it. The HV20 sends 1080i however.

For blu-ray, the display needs to be set as progressive scan, but for the HV20 it needs to be interlaced.

If one connects the HV20 to a display THROUGH a blu-ray player, does the player upgrade 1080i to 1080p so the user need not switch the display back and forth according to the source? (I am sure 1080i to 1080p wouldn't look so good though, but still I thought I would ask).

Also, if I connected a blu-ray burner to my PC, and Sony Vegas Movie Studio Platium is upgraded to support it, would the end product be burnt as 1920x1080i or 1440x1080i (given that it has been captured as HDV standard) ?

Tim
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Old December 12th, 2007, 11:45 PM   #2
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I don't own a Bluray player. But I think Bluray player will have different modes to accomodate the source. If the source is 1080i, it should playback 1080i without problem.

For HV20, you can shoot in 24P then remove the pulldown with tools like Cineform or the free HV20pulldown.exe. After the process, the footage becomes 1080p.
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Old December 13th, 2007, 05:44 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Sills View Post
Hi all,

I have been wondering -

Blu-ray players provide 1080p footage as I understand it. The HV20 sends 1080i however.

For blu-ray, the display needs to be set as progressive scan, but for the HV20 it needs to be interlaced.

If one connects the HV20 to a display THROUGH a blu-ray player, does the player upgrade 1080i to 1080p so the user need not switch the display back and forth according to the source? (I am sure 1080i to 1080p wouldn't look so good though, but still I thought I would ask).

Also, if I connected a blu-ray burner to my PC, and Sony Vegas Movie Studio Platium is upgraded to support it, would the end product be burnt as 1920x1080i or 1440x1080i (given that it has been captured as HDV standard) ?

Tim
tim i dont own a hv20 i have sony cams but all the hdv footage [ie the edited tapes that i have]14 so far have been put on 7 25gb blue ray discs,the tapes are 1080i and the discs play great on my ps3 with menus that i put on them. hope this may help.chris
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Old December 13th, 2007, 11:36 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Sills View Post
If one connects the HV20 to a display THROUGH a blu-ray player, does the player upgrade 1080i to 1080p so the user need not switch the display back and forth according to the source? (I am sure 1080i to 1080p wouldn't look so good though, but still I thought I would ask).
I wasn't aware that any blu-ray player (or HD-DVD player) had an input that would allow you to connect the HV20 to it to pass through to a display. Which specific model of player do you have in mind?
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Old December 13th, 2007, 05:52 PM   #5
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The HV-20 outputs high-def only through the HDMI and component outputs. I'm unaware of any BluRay player that will accept either of these and pass them through to a television.

Presently available BluRay players will not play a BluRay DVD-R or DVD-RE, i.e. one you burn on a computer using a BluRay burner. They will, however, read high-def mpeg2 files stored as data on a standard data DVD or, I think, a data BluRay disk.

The fact that the video is 1080i doesn't matter -- BluRay disks can read it and will send the appropriate video format to your television, either 1080p if you want the player to upscale, or 1080i if your TV will accept it.
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Old December 13th, 2007, 07:15 PM   #6
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I have to admit, I am not aware of any blu-ray players that will accept input from an external source and pass it through for display. Then again, I am not currently in the market for one so I have to admit that I do not know if there actually is or not. I would imagine it is only a matter of time given that blu-ray recorders with inbuilt hidef tuner and HDD do exist (but up for sale I do not know).

With respect to editing software, I was wondering when (and if) something like Vegas supports the "make Blu-ray" tab as well as the "make DVD" tab, the 1440x1080i footage would be likely to be converted back to and burnt as 1920x1080i on the blu-ray disc. I am sure there would be some sort of resolution standard for discs burnt on blu-ray that are intended for video rather than data use.

Tim
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Old December 13th, 2007, 07:24 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Sills View Post
Blu-ray players provide 1080p footage as I understand it. The HV20 sends 1080i however. For blu-ray, the display needs to be set as progressive scan, but for the HV20 it needs to be interlaced.
Who told you that? TVs are smart enough to detect what signal is being sent to them. Also, HDMI has a handshake protocol, so a player and a TV can communicate and choose the best connection option, just like modems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Sills View Post
If one connects the HV20 to a display THROUGH a blu-ray player, does the player upgrade 1080i to 1080p so the user need not switch the display back and forth according to the source?
Man, just go and buy the dang thing, I mean, an HD TV ;-). You don't need to switch anything. Also, I am not sure that a blu-ray player accepts input video and that it can be used as a scaler/deinterlacer. I don't think that it can.
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Originally Posted by Tim Sills View Post
I am sure 1080i to 1080p wouldn't look so good though, but still I thought I would ask.
So good as what? All plasma/LCD panels except ALiS are progressive. As such, all plasma/LCD TVs convert signal to progressive anyway. Native 1080i stinks just as much as 480i, and you need very smart cirquitry to make interlaced signal bearable. At the very least, a TV can detect absence of motion and resolve full 1080 lines. In case of motion most TVs just drop one field, others try to combine two fields into one either by dumb blending -- losing sharpness and effective resolution in the process -- or by analyzing motion and blending only the moving parts of the image, the latter requires expensive electronics and still is not as good as natively progressive video.

But don't despair, 1080i works fine for movies. There is no difference between 1080i and 1080p if you watch 24p movie telecined into 60i and the TV is capable of decoding 3:2 cadence. Oh, by the way, the HV20 outputs 24p exactly in the same manner as used by networks for broadcasting movies, by employing 3:2 cadence.
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Old December 13th, 2007, 07:54 PM   #8
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Umm, nobody told me that. Going by my non-HDMI TV, if I try to display progressive I get nothing - it can't support it. I does however support interlaced and the HV20 works well with it. So, I am sure you can see how I drew my conclusion not having HDMI equipment. It's good to know about the handshake however - that fills me in on a few things.

Yep, I'll just go out and spend $700. Damn, while I am at it, I'll spend $3000 on a "full HD" TV. It's only money right !!

Michael, you lost me in the last bit of your post. I'll just nod my head and say "ah-huh" given that my technical knowledge is not quite on par.

I live in PAL land - how would I know if my TV can "see" recorded 25fps progressive embedded in the 50i stream and thus display 25fps progressive? (i.e. see the 2:2 pulldown if I understand things correctly).

Tim
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Old December 13th, 2007, 08:26 PM   #9
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I live in PAL land - how would I know if my TV can "see" recorded 25fps progressive embedded in the 50i stream and thus display 25fps progressive? (i.e. see the 2:2 pulldown if I understand things correctly).
Sorry I missed that. I don't know for sure, I would think that progressive frames are flagged in PAL land just like they should be flagged in NTSC. So the the result should be pretty much the same: progressive frame carried in an interlaced stream. Here is the deal: 2:2 pulldown is simpler, but if PsF are not flagged, it is very hard to guess them. On contrary, 3:2 cadence is quite easy to distinguish even if flags are not set properly.

I guess you should just look at the specs, if they do not mention something like "movie mode", then read reviews or get a test DVD and test yourself. I tested my TV with a test DVD and found that it works with 3:2 cadence, but does not distinguish 2:2 cadence. There are some shows like Friends that are shot in 30PsF, but my TV does not get this, it just works in native 60i mode.
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