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Old February 20th, 2008, 12:31 PM   #1
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Blue ray HD burner for apple DVD Studio Pro?

Anyone care to speculate when apple will offer a blueray HD buner that is set to work with DVD Studio Pro?
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Old February 20th, 2008, 01:11 PM   #2
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It would be nice to have it, sooner than later...I'd sacrifice time for money.
I don't want to pay $800 for it.

I intentionally ordered my new Mac Pro without the 2nd burner, so I'd have an open bay for the Blu-Ray burner, when released. If ever.
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Old February 20th, 2008, 01:41 PM   #3
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That's the $50,000 question, isn't it? Now that HD-DVD is officially out of the running and is a dead format, that means only BluRay is the optical HD delivery format for the future.

However, here's the caveat: DVDSP4 was already built to handle SD-DVD and HD-DVD only, not BR, period. Since going forward means that there will be no new HD-DVD jobs that Apple will have to release a completely different version of DVDSP to incorporate BR and delete the HD-DVD functionality - unless they keep it in for some backwards-compatibility reasoning.

But, it may still be another year or so before that happens and there are a couple technical and political reasons. One, is that you cannot truly author BR media unless you are an "authorized" authoring facility. That means you not only have to purchase approved authoring software - which currently is only Sonic Scenarist or Sony BluPrint, but you also have to pay a licensing fee and, your content has to pass the "BluRay approval" standards before it can be published as a BluRay title. Those costs currently are sky-high, as in over $100k to be a player, which puts it squarely in the realm of the big studios.

There's also the technical side of BR; BR authoring is completely different from the standard DVD spec which HD-DVD was originally designed around, just at higher bitrates. So that means that DVDSP would need to be completely re-written for this new coding method and of course the requesite training manuals would need to be produced so we can all learn this new process.

I'm sure one of the reasons that Apple and other companies haven't produced fully-compatible BR authoring software yet, was because of those two major issues. The technical isn't that difficult to deal with, but somehow the BR licensing and approval process would now need to be completely revamped as well to allow the masses to finally author the media. And my guess is that it's going to take a big fight - and screaming producers like us - before Sony and the powers-that-be decide to back off from the exorbitant licensing fees and "approval" process.
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Old February 20th, 2008, 05:04 PM   #4
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wow if thats true this is very bad news so for final cut users and dvd studio pro the future looks bleek to say the least.There has to be a work around.
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Old February 20th, 2008, 06:50 PM   #5
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The future, is anything but bleak. I'd say we've got some exciting things to look forward to now that there is a clear direction to follow.

Although doubtful considering Apple's history of lagging behind the PC world and being perfectly secretive about their intentions, it's possible that they may hint at their future BR offerings at NAB.

And the workaround that we all want simply doesn't exist right now, for all the above stated reasons.
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Old February 20th, 2008, 07:04 PM   #6
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I remember when Apple first introduced the Superdrive.[DVD burner]

And I also fondly remember when they slapped that DVD-R drive into the first generation eMac way back in 2002.

Of course, Apple was kind of a jerk in that iDVD only worked with internal drives [to keep one from buying their own drive] so I could care less if Apple offered a Blu-Ray drive or not.

What I do care more about is that they will in the future *support* third party Blu-Ray burners and not just via DVD Studio Pro

So where is that darn iDVD-HD that I've be requesting?
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Old February 21st, 2008, 12:18 PM   #7
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If we are to offer content in HD to our customers apple needs to come out with a blue ray burner and it needs to be compatible with dvd studio pro whats the good of being able to author dvd content if you cant author it in hd for clients who want it and trust every one is going to want it this is going to be a big deal real soon. So apple what are you going to do for your customers, dont leave us in the dust we need a compatible blue ray HD burner and we need it this summer!
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Old February 21st, 2008, 06:24 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Gary Williams View Post
...dont leave us in the dust we need a compatible blue ray HD burner and we need it this summer!
It's not just Apple users that are without a solution; as I mentioned earlier, there are only 2 authoring programs that offer the full BR spec, and although they are Windows-only apps, their cost still puts them out of reach for the indie producer, regardless what platform they're on.

The burners have been available for some time and using Toast 8 you can currently burn BR tracks or data-only on OSX.

Everybody, from Microsoft, Apple, Roxio (Sonic), Avid etc... they are all in the same boat, trying to figure out how to take advantage of the newly appointed HD optical-media king, BR. But having the software & hardware ready to go is just one part of the solution, again the bigger issue is licensing and approval. Right now, being an "approved" BR authoring facility requires a paid licensing and approval process, very similar to Macrovision, which requires purchasing the *rights* to use the technology - and only after you've passed their approval process. So now that BR is the only HD-authoring option it's completely unclear how the licensing issue is going to be addressed - will Sony and the BR consortium put up a big fight? Because god knows they don't want to lose those licensing fees. Or will they simply say to one and all, "Sure, become a BR authoring facility - just pony up $50 to $100k!".

It's a safe bet that at NAB someone - and who exactly is up for grabs - will make some announcement about further supporting the BR spec. Until that happens we're all in the same boat, wondering what the next phase of this transition will be.
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Old February 21st, 2008, 08:38 PM   #9
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I've been using Adobe Encore with Panasonic internal Blu-ray writer installed and connected via IDE inside of my Mac Pro 8 core and working great.

There were some old Blu-ray players didn't playback the disc I made, but new players including Playstation 3 plays my discs beautifully.
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Old February 21st, 2008, 11:09 PM   #10
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Indeed, Adobe Encore and Toast already work for basic level authoring to Blu-ray media on a Mac ... and that will be enough for most of us and our clients, for the time being at least. The larger issue of licensing remains however, and I believe relates more to the creation of full spec Blu-Ray "glass masters" and duplication thereof, but certainly not an issue for the masses and their basic level burning of BD-R media

IMHO I'd actually expect Apple to have a full spec Blu-Ray compatible version of DVD-SP in short order ... Apple have been a member of the Blu-Ray consortium since 2005 and chances are they have had builds of such an App for some time. (You didn't think it odd the DVDSP didn't get much of a look in with FCS2?)
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Old February 22nd, 2008, 05:15 AM   #11
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I hear the 10 time copy scheme is already in agreement, and hear that players and recorders that comply that scheme is coming out in June.

So, I would expect Apple to do something towards or after that.

I don't think Encore is much less featured than DVD Studio Pro.
I though it is more clever than DVD Studio Pro that you can actually build Blu-ray, DVD and Flash content in the same project.
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Old February 22nd, 2008, 09:56 AM   #12
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To be honest, I don't understand the licensing and approval issue. If I want to but the Bluray logo on my disc, I understand that requires licensing. But if I use software that "happens" to write data to a Bluray disc such that, when that disc is inserted into a Bluray player, it can play a high-def movie, why does the software or process require anybody's blessing?

Maybe I am missing something, but I'm comparing this with DVDs. I can burn a writeable DVD such that it plays video in many/most DVD players. I cannot, however, legally put the DVD logo on it. If I want to do that, I have to obtain a license or go through a replication facility that has one.

What is different with Bluray? I would be thrilled if I could just burn a Bluray disc, I don't need to put a Bluray logo on it.

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Old February 22nd, 2008, 11:40 AM   #13
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I don't get it can you burn a movie with apple on blu-ray withe toast or only data?
It seems like apple is trying to get rid of the disc all together, making you buy an apple tv for your HD rather than a blu ray player. But maybe that was just for the new "air".
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Old February 22nd, 2008, 02:15 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Andy Mees View Post
...(You didn't think it odd the DVDSP didn't get much of a look in with FCS2?)
That was the second biggest disappointment for Apple at NAB '07, that DVDSP4 was virtually untouched. The expectation was that because PP CS3 was BR compatible that Apple would certainly follow suit if for no other reason but to stay competitive. What a shock it was that even today there's (so far) no mention of native BR support.

But, Apple was very bold when SP4 was originally introduced when it came with HD-DVD capabilities, so it stands to reason that the main reason Apple didn't jump on BR faster was because they had already spent the time and money developing HD-DVD authoring and were most likely waiting to see how the HD-optical wars were going to play out before committing millions of dollars into reformatting DVDSP again into a new animal.

Now that the war is over it's logical to think that Apple will *finally* come along with BR, but considering how secretive and sometimes illogical their past choices have been for product development (Apple's cash cow has been their "i" product lines leaving the pro-apps seemingly ignored) who knows exactly how or when they'll give us what we've been waiting for.
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Old February 22nd, 2008, 03:31 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Aric Mannion View Post
I don't get it can you burn a movie with apple on blu-ray withe toast or only data?
Well - it's digital, so it's all just data. I don't have any hands-on experience with Bluray, but with DVD it's "just" a matter of making sure the data is formatted right, and the filenames and directory structure match the conventions. Do that, and a DVD player will play your video. (Please note that I am not saying this is a small task...)

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