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Old August 9th, 2008, 11:11 PM   #1
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Lets Talk about Blu-Ray burning.

Ok, the biggest topic I can think of.
Blu Ray Burning.

I have a Mac Pro (early 08)
I have all 4 drives in the bays.
I also have Final Cut Studio, and the Adobe Master Collection.
I know Encore is the only way to go to burn Blu Ray.

However the one thing I have not heard, is how some of you have connected an Internal Blu Ray burner, and what models seem to be the way to go.

So,
I personally am interested in the LG GGW-H20L Super Multi Blue - Blu-ray Disc Burner / HD DVD-ROM Drive w/ Lightscribe - 6x2x6x/3x - Serial ATA - internal - 5.25"

I know us Pro owners have 2 SATA slots behind the fans, BUT, I have also heard those ports are not really working out for some people, causing burn errors, and even as far as that those SATA ports are disabled and are locked out for use.

Is it true? do any Mac Pro (early 08) owners have an internal BD burner using one of those ports?
Do you have issues? Have you had issues?
Has anyone purchased the LG GGW-H20L?
How has it been for you on Encore?, Toast (for Data Backups like footage or images)
Have Dual Layers worked?

Any walkthroughs yet?
How has editing in FCP, exporting through Compressor, then burning with Encore worked?

What else should us new to Blu Ray Burning people need to know?

I mentioned having all 4 drives in the machine as I was thinking about taking one out, and hooking the Blu Ray burner to that port, ie: take out drive 4, use it externally, and running a cable for the blu ray burner to that port. if I had to for reliability.
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Old August 10th, 2008, 02:20 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Fields View Post
Blu Ray Burning.

How has it been for you on Encore?, Toast (for Data Backups like footage or images)
Have Dual Layers worked?
I am using an LG External burner for BluRay data backups (24 GB data per disc) with my MacBook Pros (one 18 months old, the other 3 months old).

Toast 9.

In theory, I can burn a BD for use in a PlayStation 3, but have not tested this. Right now, just want optical backup, which LG/Toast delivers in spades.
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Old August 11th, 2008, 03:29 PM   #3
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Very quickly; you cannot use any of the internal/extra SATA ports for any optical drive, the mainboard was only wired for and the firmware designed for ATAPI/ATA connected drives. There is one BR burner currently made by Panasonic that has the correct connections and does talk to Encore, Toast etc. Read the posts and you'll find everything you need.
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Old August 11th, 2008, 06:20 PM   #4
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Robert,

The reason why I posted a new thread, was a search gave me 341 pages, and it seems that the same 5 questions are asked in this forum anyway, so why not add #6.

My questions were not based on "what to use to burn Blu ray" I know Encore is my best bet.

My questions are has anyone purchased this burner, how have you connected it to your mac pro, have you had issues burning Dual layer Blu Ray, are the rumors true about those 2 extra SATA ports being no good, can i use a drive port for a SATA Blu Ray drive.

I did not ask how to encode HDV using compressor for BD, i did not ask what codec to use, or how I can cross convert something I really should be editing in it's native format.
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Old August 17th, 2008, 11:15 AM   #5
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Jim,

The real issue at hand is that any BR "solution" for Mac at this point is really on the bleeding edge. Apple has no official BR support - yet (painful as it is) and while Toast and Encore offer some low-level options there isn't anything anyone can point to as being a solid, "yes, do this and it will work just fine across the board" option. Yet.

Those that have tried it (like my team) are doing so mainly for curiosity's sake or to be prepared for when Apple does finally introduce something we're ahead of the curve on implementation. However advanced options such as dual-layer breaks, burner and media compatibility are all best-guess scenarios no matter who attempts it and results will be mixed simply because Apple has not launched any public BR plans or roadmaps for compatibility.

If you're serious about wanting to offer BR now as a commercial offering then you'd better be prepared to cough-up over $100k to buy Scenarist and the licensing to offer the service. If you're wanting to attempt it on a Mac then be prepared to do you own trial-and-error testing.

To aid your own venture into this: As I mentioned earlier the extra internal SATA ports will in fact not work properly for any optical drive. You'd need this burner to use as an internal:

Panasonic SW-5583 Blu-ray (Single/Dual Laye... (SW-5583-BK) at OWC

However stock is low on this item because it is the only ATAPI/ATA connected BR burner available that the Mac can talk to successfully.
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Old August 18th, 2008, 10:59 AM   #6
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I have worked some bugs out and have a sub 300.00 solution that seems to work so far.

The LG burner (6x speed), a SATA to IDE adaptor, and internally mounting in the Pro. All for well under 300.00 (at least what I paid for new, locally in DFW)

Blu Ray Duplicators can be found for as low as 1100.00 for a 2 Blu duplicator, found me a 6 Blu Duplicator for 5000.00

So this myth, this cloudy vision of moving forward in this community about working with Blu Ray is over. If I can do this on the cheap, anyone can.

I dont make short films, I work on Weddings, Mitzvahs, and can be considered a "hired gun" for filming whatever on the side. So I need Blu right now, my current, previous, and future clients are asking for it.

Inkjet printable Blu Ray Discs, found some in a bulk buy at 11.00 a disc, purchase 100
Still looking for Lightscribe.

I have burned 7 projects this past week, alot of trial and error, working with Final Cut Pro, Compressor, then Encore, OR Working in Final cut then going straight to Encore. I have a nice work flow going now.

THrough trial and error, and many BDRE erases I know what us OSX Leopard users are going to go through while using Encore, and why. I know how to work around those issues, I can even do multi format Blu Ray discs, I can now have NTSC, 720P, 1080i, 1080P all different frame rates, widescreen, standard 4:3 all on the same disc.

So for a "commercial" offering of Weddings, Mitzvahs, Photo Montages, Corporate Events, and anything else in the "Party and Event" world, Blu Ray is very much viable, printable, usable, and working.

Robert, Scenarist is not nessasary, Adobe Encore CS3 for Mac, or PC works. Quicktime files import, .M2V files import, Motion menus work. 100K investment is not needed.

I will be giving Ken Stone a work flow on Blu Ray Authoring using Final Cut Pro and Encore this week, detailed down to what drive I purchased, how to instal it in the Pro, software setup, issues, and burning. I hate having to take all this time from paying jobs to do all the research so others such as myself do not get road blocked by people telling us to search, or that without a 100K investment it is not possible. I got lucky with the sub 300.00 price, and really feel that if you spend more than that, something is wrong.

Of course I had the Adobe master Suite anyway, but if all your going to do is use Encore, that is cheaper than buying the whole suite.
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Old August 19th, 2008, 10:33 AM   #7
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I'm wondering if the best solution isn't burning on my PC, where Blu-Ray seems to be a lot farther down the road. I need menus, and it seems to make sense to have a dedicated machine for burning while I start my next projects.

I wouldn't do Lightscribe as over time the 'burn' flakes off and the label deteriorates. I would go with an Epson and use inkjet Blu-Rays: BD-R Verbatim White Inkjet 2x Blank Blu Ray Disc

I really, really hope we can get a new category for Blu-Ray to make it easier to track info.
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Old August 19th, 2008, 12:24 PM   #8
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I can assume that you and Robert are working on a "Hollywood" Java type Blu Ray authoring system/means of giving our clients Blu Ray.

You know what, thats fine, but for some of us (myself included) simply being able to burn a Blu Ray with a clients Wedding on it and have some sort of motion menu, or something other than Encores wonderful "static" menu system. Some of us also do not have 6 figures to spend, or even want to spend 4 figures on Blu Ray capabilities. Please keep in mind that some of us (myself included) might not shoot short films, documentaries, need to go to mass production, need to burn more than maybe 5-10 discs, or have really high end cameras, that some of us really only need it for "simple" Blu Ray needs.


I posted this thread with the original intention of asking about HARDWARE. I included Encore in the discussion as other than Sony or Sonics solutions, Encore was/is a low price alternative for burning Blu Ray in OSX. I am not stupid, I know good and well Apple is sitting on their hands with Blu, that was not the topic.


What menus do people really need and what is the big wait all about? Java, that overrated system Sony had to have with Blu Ray, the menu system that slows down older Blu Ray players? is this what we are waiting for? Some of us need solutions now as maybe potential clients are asking for it. Do people really think that a client (lets say a bride) cares about high end menu structure...no most of my clients are pretty big tech idiots and their DVD needs to be simple.

So, for the sake of ending an argument that never should have started...

The LG burner works in a Mac Pro if you buy a SATA to IDE converter.
OSX Leopard will reconize a blank Blu Ray.
Toast works great for data back ups.
Encore works for creating Blu Ray discs (we all know that)
You can still edit in Final Cut Pro, export via compressor, and use Encore (some might not have known that)
You can use Motion to create motion DVD menus for use in Encore (who knows this I am not sure)
Dont use the SATA ports behind the fans in the Mac pro.
I have not personaly tested a drive bays SATA ports.
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Old August 19th, 2008, 04:50 PM   #9
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I like the way you listed your findings and am glad you're still here. The SATA to IDE converter doesn't sound like that big of a deal or that expensive. Pry the bigger expense that I'm concerned about is if I have to have a tech guy install it. The cheaper internals interest me if there is not a huge hassle installing, though I've heard that the opening is not quite big enough and can cause some catching probs on the quads. I'm not sure if this is with all internals.

Do you have Encore? I'm looking for the best place to buy it as a stand-alone.
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Old August 19th, 2008, 09:43 PM   #10
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Installing an internal optical drive in the newer mac pros is easy, in the newer MP's you just slide out the optical drive cage. 4 screws attach the optical drive to the cage.

This is something you really do not have to spend money to have replaced.

As far as catching problems, you need to remove the small cover/faceplate on the end of the new drive before you put it in the MP.

I can post some images if it will make it easier on you.
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Old August 20th, 2008, 01:00 PM   #11
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Perfect. Thanks. With that I went ahead and ordered the Panasonic. I'll eye it out to see if it's going to catch. Now to buy the Premier Suite. I am grumbling all the way on this one, as it's ludacris to pay that much for a stinkin' burner for its cheap menus! ** About to peel the apple sticker off my SUV **

I actually may still try the drive with my PC due to the superior software available in this area.
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Old August 20th, 2008, 04:07 PM   #12
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Don't get frustrated yet, you can use any Quicktime file movie as a menu. I have been building roughs in Motion, exporting them QT, and using them as the motion menu in Encore. Just remember, you need to hold down the "alt/option" key when dragging the file onto the menu, and then go to file/render/motion menus to render the menu so it can be proofed and will work.

Took me a long time searching to find those 2 bits of gold info.

I still use all of Final Cut Studio, except I now use Encore to only do the Blu Ray discs. I have been playing with Premiere and boy...is that a mess of a program.
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