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Old October 24th, 2008, 10:34 AM   #1
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Sony EX1 to Bluray Workflow.

I was wondering what is most people's workflow in producing a bluray HD disc from Sony EX1 camera.

1. EX1 (MP4) - CineForm AVI - Premiere Pro CS3 - Adobe Encore CS3.
or
2. EX1 (MP4) - ClipBrowser MXF - Premiere Pro CS3 - Adobe Encore CS3.
or
3. EX1 (MP4) - Edit the MP4 directly in Premiere Pro CS3 - Adobe Encore CS3.

Been doing a test on Cineform ProspectHD but got an interlacing problem. Is it because I'm using trial version?
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Old October 24th, 2008, 10:54 AM   #2
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I no longer use Premiere Pro, as I switched to Vegas a few years ago when I started working in HD, but I would have used (sort of currently use) option 2. I like to work on MXF files - they've given me no problems and I don't have to re-render or transcode anything - only a small, painess re-wrapping of the file. Of course, I don't generally use Encore for DVD production either, I use Architect, but I'd imagine that wouldn't impact anything.

The only caveat to that is that Vegas is happy working with and exporting just about any file type whereas Premiere Pro was more picky. So, my supposition my have a hole in it. Anyone else?
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Old October 24th, 2008, 11:07 AM   #3
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I'd like to know more about Ted's Vegas workflow. The only way I've gotten Vegas to not re-render the mxf is if it's SQ (or is it SP?) mode, i.e. 1440x1080.

I am able to unwrap the mxf using the Snell and Wilcox mxf unwrapper, but if you export the native 35 mbps mpeg-2 for Blu-ray at 35 mbps, you're using a custom template, not one of the Vegas Blu-ray standard templates. I don't have a problem with that if it works for you, except Blu-ray playback has stuttered for me at the full 35 mbps playback bitrate. It just seems like Vegas would have supported a 35 mbps Blu-ray template, if there should be 35 mbps mpeg-2 support.
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Old October 24th, 2008, 11:48 AM   #4
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Tom,

I'm not able to test and troubleshoot currently, but you might want to check out this thread, particularly the bit from Spot.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/what-happ...y-h-264-a.html
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Old October 24th, 2008, 04:19 PM   #5
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Well basically Ted, the answer with Blu-ray, the EX1 and Vegas is that the video is going to have to be rendered once, at a minimum. Not the end of the world, not even a problem.
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Old October 24th, 2008, 05:42 PM   #6
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Tom,

I'd never imagined not rendering - perhpaps my post wasn't clear enough. I just want to limit the render to one - avoiding re-rendering files. I don't like to idea of converting the original to a new format, then working on it, then rendering it out.
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Old October 24th, 2008, 05:57 PM   #7
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Tom. How about your own workflow? What program do you use? Are you also using Vegas to edit?

I like using Premiere Pro because of it's dynamic link. Where I can copy-paste the clips (with In/Out Point) to AFX, and do some work in AFX, then import the AFX composition into PPro and render out. Same thing apply to Photoshop file.
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Old October 24th, 2008, 06:17 PM   #8
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Ted. Is editing MXF file save? Base on what I read in some other forum. They never want to edit MPEG2 file derived from HDV camera (Sony Z1) capture to Premiere timeline. It is something to do with the I frame P frame (I forgot). That is also why they go for cineform. Perhaps you've read or knew this too.

Well that was MPEG2 files, but clips from EX1 are MP4 then converted to MXF, is this a different case?
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Old October 24th, 2008, 11:36 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desmond Sukotjo View Post
Tom. How about your own workflow? What program do you use? Are you also using Vegas to edit?

I like using Premiere Pro because of it's dynamic link. Where I can copy-paste the clips (with In/Out Point) to AFX, and do some work in AFX, then import the AFX composition into PPro and render out. Same thing apply to Photoshop file.
I use Vegas Pro 8.0c to render out a Blu-ray compatible mpeg-2 video file, and an audio LPCM wav file. Thereafter, I use an assortment of editors and mpeg utilities to join clips, do titling, score the soundtrack, mux files, and author to BDMV.

I do it this way mainly because I'm fast and comfortable with using Womble MPEG Video wizard to join clips, add transitions and titles, mux audio and video, and most importantly because it smart renders.

I use Vegas at the beginning of the workflow, because it exports using its great collection of audio and video codecs, color correction and filters. Then I join the clips with Womble, and use it to do the titling, transitions, mux the audio and the video.

Vegas impresses me for it's audio capabilities. I start the audio workflow by using Smartsound Sonicfire Pro to score the video. I mark an inpoint and outpoint, select the multi-layer music title (royalty-free), choose a theme and variation, move the sliders on the mixer for each instrument track, and export the compilation. I'll end up with a wav file for each instrument, typically 8 tracks.

I drop each one of those tracks onto the Vegas timeline. I'll move the panner to direct each track to play from one or more speakers in mixed proportions. For the LFE channel, I'll combine all the tracks into one and apply a 120hz lowpass filter. Vegas will export an AC3 file for these Dolby Digital 5.1 discrete surround tracks. I'll mux the AC3 file back with the video file using TsMuxeR, which also authors the Blu-ray BDMV folders. Lastly I use Nero to burn the BDMV folders into a Blu-ray playable disk. TsMuxer lets you do this for DVD5/9 media. This is a very inexpensive way to make Blu-ray playable disks of up to 40-43 minutes. The disks can also be 24p native, and play that way on tv's and monitors that support 1080p24 output, and with discrete Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound and LFE channel.
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Old October 24th, 2008, 11:58 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desmond Sukotjo View Post
Ted. Is editing MXF file save? Base on what I read in some other forum. They never want to edit MPEG2 file derived from HDV camera (Sony Z1) capture to Premiere timeline. It is something to do with the I frame P frame (I forgot). That is also why they go for cineform. Perhaps you've read or knew this too.

Well that was MPEG2 files, but clips from EX1 are MP4 then converted to MXF, is this a different case?
I could be mistaken (and I'm sure I'll find out if I am) but I believe that the MXF conversion is simply rewrapping the video file in a different format. I don't think that there is any re-rendering of the mpg file.

I do remember having trouble with HDV in premiere pro. Going to cineform was practically a requirement. that was one of the reasons I switched to Vegas. The intuitive interface, ease of use, and flexibility was why I stayed.
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Old October 25th, 2008, 01:16 PM   #11
 
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Originally Posted by Ted OMalley View Post
I could be mistaken (and I'm sure I'll find out if I am) but I believe that the MXF conversion is simply rewrapping the video file in a different format. I don't think that there is any re-rendering of the mpg file.
Ted, you are correct. There is no re-rendering. The mp4 files are simply "re-wrapped" in the MXF container--a totally lossless process.

All the re-rendering and intermediates that were required in the beginning is one of the big things that kept me away from HDV. I've always used Vegas (moving from film to video). Using Vegas to cut video is more like what I was used to in cutting film.

With the advent of the EX cameras, Clip Broswer and MXF files, it's just as simple as it was working in DV. Shoot - import - edit - output.

"Keep It Simple Stupid" that's my motto!
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Old October 25th, 2008, 02:04 PM   #12
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"Keep It Simple Stupid" that's my motto!
So, now you're calling me stupid? Do you really think that's called for?

;-)
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Old October 25th, 2008, 03:47 PM   #13
 
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No, sir!

That was entirely, one hundred percent directed straight at me!
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Old October 25th, 2008, 04:40 PM   #14
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I drag EX1/3-files (incl. meta catalogs) directly into Premiere. Itís very effective. No problems. I only use MXF when I have to give files to people using other editors.
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Old October 26th, 2008, 01:00 PM   #15
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Drag EX1 files into Edius 5, output to Blu-ray mpeg file from timeline using Procoder 3. Open in Encore CS3, do your design work and burn to disk. Only one coding process - same as DV really.

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